The KSP 1.0 Grand Discussion Thread: Conquering Space Was Never This Easy!

[Franklin]

Frankly this game stinks now. I don;t have a single rocket all of which worked beautifully in .9 that does not tip early immediately of as I ascend. The yaw controls do not work properly neither does SAS. It does not respond to the controls and I cannot stop the tipping. Very frustrating. If they don;t fix this I'm sadly finished with Kerbal. I watched Manley's video and frankly I can;t understand how he was able to control his rocket. None of mine are presently controllable. Also the extensive space station I built can no longer be flown since when I go to mission control and highlight it and the fly button never lights. they ruined this game frankly.

So what you're saying is it's you, not Kerbal.

[Heart Under the Mountain]

After making my post, a number of ships in transit, and in orbit around Eve and Duna spontaneously exploded (Some of those ships I haven't accelerated or even touched in days to weeks so it must be some strange glitch on the atomic engines I can't explain. I have no idea why they just randomly exploded since they were just floating in orbits or drifting for hundreds of days, to over a year, towards their SOI targets while I worked on new ships at home).

Fortunately I had reserve funds, and time before mission deadlines, so that the losses weren't completely devastating. But I did lose almost all of my higher level Krebs in those ships/stations and a fortune in parts and fuel that were intended to return after mission completion.

I've just decided to completely eliminate the LV-N from my space program for now. Learning to use other engines with higher consumptions isn't impossible, and I've managed a few good designs that require fuel hauler meetings in orbit to refuel, as well as fuel hauler launches to intersect the same planets for prolonged missions, but they can make it to targets and back without a great deal of difficulty, although at a much greater cost than my LV-N fleet had allowed.

It would be nice to see some heat sinks, radiators, refrigerants, or liquid cooling systems added though, if heat is now to be a more critical consideration. I tried builds attaching more parts to the engines, they didn't seem to help with the heat much except for using KAS parts that have higher heat tolerance. But right click options should also show level of heat in parts. Without it I can't really tell if my builds are in fact helping to redistribute heat, or by how much. And having the above cooling options, as well as the temperatures of parts displayed, would be a reasonable next step if they're making heat such a limiting factor now.

Thank you for your reply and links though, I will check them out and see if they'll help my still unexploded ships, stations, and bases to survive. Right now I have a bunch of Kerbs I evacuated, after the chain of losses, floating around in EVA orbits or standing around on planets and moons so they don't spontaneously combust lol.

[r4pt0r]

Well now I've officially gotten down and dirty with 1.0.2, and its not bad. I did experience fliping with my early rockets, but have since learned what does and doesnt work. also I've been very conservative on re-entry, the heat isnt the danger i thought it was. But we will see once I start flying back from minmus eh? should start unmanned munar flybys soon.

[problemecium]

I've decided this post wasn't very constructive, so it's hidden in this spoiler unless you really want to read it.

Okay, so about this 1.0.2 thing...

I feel bad being the only one around complaining, because everyone else was complaining about 1.0.0 and is now jumping with joy over 1.0.2. I do agree that the temperature bars are a nice addition.

But am I the only one having a severe problem with the souposphere? I was happy that it was easier to go fast at low altitudes, and thus easier to get to orbit without having to make giant asparagus beasts, and I was happy to trade that for the increased tendency of rockets to flip. But in this new patch, they seem even more prone to flipping, to the point where to save my life I can't manage to make a rocket without putting giant fins all over the bottom, which I know should be possible since it works in real life (Falcon 9) and the new aerodynamics are supposed to be an improvement for realism.

And far more frustrating is the fact that while it was markedly easier to get to orbit in 1.0.0, in 1.0.2 it seems much harder, even more so than with the old system. All the lift rockets I had built for 1.0.0 not only can't carry as much weight, but can't even get to space anymore.

Anyone else having excessive trouble with this?

Edited May 2, 2015 by parameciumkid
derp

[Aerolfos]

So I have confirmed a "bug" already in 1.0.2

Particularly, Jebium helmets still exist.

I tried EVAing while on a nice parachute descent, to shuffle crew reports around (With Jeb) to make room for a new one. He, of course, decided holding on was a bad idea.

By turning him upside down he survived a splashdown at at least 50 m/s. Oh well, Jeb is still alive at least.

(Please do not fix by the way. I like immortal Jeb)

[Superfluous J]

I've had pretty restricted play time (due mostly to it being a weekend with BEAUTIFUL weather) but I just launched 1.0.2 for the first time, copied the ship that got me to orbit in 1.0 over, launched it, and...

...got into orbit. I then bright it back down and landed it.

I had more trouble keeping it steady, especially during descent (no heat shield or decoupler on the last small stage) but it made orbit and from what I remember of my first launch it actually held the gravity turn better than it did in 1.0. If I'd had fins on it and decoupled that last fuel tank and engine, I bet it'd have worked even better.

[Bekiekutmoar]

Interesting thing I noted in 1.0.#: picking a higher landing spot in Eve is now more important than ever. Last night I landed a very capable lander on Eve at a mere 400 meters above sea-level, but the thing couldn't ascent anymore, mostly due to a Skipper Engine having a thrust of below 160 Kn ... ! It drank fuel away like a true fuel-aholic, but performed terrible. Furthermore, the engines sounded a bit muffled. Designing a new Eve-lander will require some new thinking and strategies.

[Cerbero]

I find it really cumbersome to advance in the techtree early in career mode. Most missions I've tried around the Kerbin biomes and space give 20 science points at most! This makes techtree progress really slow and boring! What are you guys doing to get science early in game?

[Superfluous J]

I find it really cumbersome to advance in the techtree early in career mode. Most missions I've tried around the Kerbin biomes and space give 20 science points at most! This makes techtree progress really slow and boring! What are you guys doing to get science early in game?

...science? Sorry, I had to.

But seriously, I'm doing science. I'm bringing all the science instruments with me, and a scientist to reset the goo and jr experiments for multiple uses, and then returning all the data to Kerbin in the pod. I'm using contracts to make money and science experiments to get science. Which, in my opinion, is the correct way the game should do it.

I've not blown the tech tree away in 2 missions but I did just get 800 science from a mun landing, not counting the (much smaller) values from the contracts. I won't get that every time, of course, but there's also Minmus hanging up there waiting to be all scienced out.

I fully expect that if I only visit each Mun anomaly and all the biomes on Minmus (which I'm hoping to do in one mission), I'll have more than enough science to tackle interplanetary when the time comes, in spite of fairings being too far up in the tech tree.

[juanml82]

I find it really cumbersome to advance in the techtree early in career mode. Most missions I've tried around the Kerbin biomes and space give 20 science points at most! This makes techtree progress really slow and boring! What are you guys doing to get science early in game?

The best thing is getting a lander with a scientist to Minmus. Since the gravity is low, you can do several suborbital hops around the different biomes. Don't bother with the large mobile lab, though. I guess it works if you have experienced scientists, which you won't have early in the career.

[Guest Space Cowboy]

https://youtu.be/CJKbrZ6zPIc

[Aerolfos]

The best thing is getting a lander with a scientist to Minmus. Since the gravity is low, you can do several suborbital hops around the different biomes. Don't bother with the large mobile lab, though. I guess it works if you have experienced scientists, which you won't have early in the career.

Theyve changed it, was always useless like that. Now its constant Science!. Seems like it is a thing to build in to a station. That might take a while though.

- - - Updated - - -

I find it really cumbersome to advance in the techtree early in career mode. Most missions I've tried around the Kerbin biomes and space give 20 science points at most! This makes techtree progress really slow and boring! What are you guys doing to get science early in game?

Indeed they do, however, just the KSC has at least 3 very easily accessible biomes (Launchpad, KSC, runway). Plus shores and grasslands if you are willing to go a bit further. Planes can get highlands easily too.

20 Science! per experiment, per biome... that is enough to get going. YOu also have flying over (BIOME), flying high, space low, space high. Its grindy, and feels like cheating/abusing the system, plus being very meta, but it really is the only way to progress. The grindiness of KSP can use a "few" tweaks. More than a few.

[Lord Aurelius]

I really hope that Squad revisits career mode in the near future. As has been discussed many times in many different threads, it's very grindy and not paced all that well. There's a few moments of brilliance where you manage to pull of a mission using the limited parts available, but in my experience those were few and far between.

Right now it's basically a challenge mode for more experienced players. It starts out relatively difficult due to the limited parts initially (which is exacerbated by the poor placement of some of the parts in the tech tree) but once you get over a certain threshold of science and funds to unlock parts and upgrade buildings, you suddenly have all the parts you need and don't have to deal with silly building restrictions and the difficulty drops significantly.

I really like the idea of a career with progression, but the current system is far from ideal.

[basic.syntax]

I really hope that Squad revisits career mode in the near future. ...once you get over a certain threshold of science and funds to unlock parts and upgrade buildings, you suddenly have all the parts you need and don't have to deal with silly building restrictions and the difficulty drops significantly.

Agree with this. We need new challenges to keep the career game interesting, once you are basically in sandbox mode, where science doesn't matter any more... because all the parts are unlocked. That is, if KSP maintains the current paradigm. I've participated in some wonderfully creative "overhaul everything" threads. Resources enable longer trips without returning to Kerbin for fuel, and that's a welcome new activity, but it would be nice to see some other exploration & discovery related "end game" activities, in career mode.

[Sabor]

Does anyone have the 1.0 aerodynamic config numbers so I can revert the changes made in ##.1/.2 ?

[Snark]

I really hope that Squad revisits career mode in the near future. As has been discussed many times in many different threads, it's very grindy and not paced all that well.

Agreed that there needs to be some work there, but I think 1.0+ is a significant incremental improvement over 0.90. Two things in particular that they did which are big steps up, IMHO:

1. Greatly diversify the tech tree. It soaks up a lot more science to max everything out.

2. Change contracts so that they're mainly just about money-- they give practically no science. You get science from doing *science*.

The thing I really disliked about career mode previously was that all the grinding I had to do to make the money caused so much science as a side-effect that there was no reason left over for me to actually go out and *explore* stuff! The collateral science from contracts, combined with the narrower tech tree, meant that I "pegged the meter" and had everything up to the "90 science" limit researched, with science piling up and nowhere to spend it, until I finally earned enough cash to upgrade the science facility.

That part is fixed now, and I like it much better. If I want science, I gotta do science. Kudos to that.

That said: I agree that there's a certain amount of "grindiness"-- in particular, the upgrade costs to the science facility (and, to a lesser degree, the VAB) are so huge that it does turn into a grind for me. I don't mind the cost-a-lot-of-money part; it's the fact that it's not granular enough. It's more fun to play when it's "do a little work, get a little benefit" rather than "do tons of work over a long time with no benefit whatsoever, then get everything all at once."

One thing that will help with this, I think, is whenever they get around to adding the "tier 0" buildings, so you upgrade each building 3 times instead of just 2. That will allow for the steps to be smaller, and ought to help out with the waiting-to-upgrade-the-science-building doldrums.

[juanml82]

Theyve changed it, was always useless like that. Now its constant Science!. Seems like it is a thing to build in to a station. That might take a while though.

- - - Updated - - -

I tried it in Minmus, early in the career with two untrained scientists and it was outputting 1 science per day or so. That way it's simply not worth it. It maybe worth with experienced scientists and maybe in another planet - but you already need a lot of science for both things, as the best way to train kerbals is to take them in a tour through the Mun, Minmus and just outside Kerbin's SOI. IE, you need nukes.

[ArmchairGravy]

I find it really cumbersome to advance in the techtree early in career mode. Most missions I've tried around the Kerbin biomes and space give 20 science points at most! This makes techtree progress really slow and boring! What are you guys doing to get science early in game?

Upgrade the Astronaut Complex so they can do EVA's. Then do a polar launch and gather science with EVA reports above the different biomes. This will net enough science to unlock the parts needed for a Mun/Minmus orbit where again, EVA reports over the biomes. That should set you well on your way.

[diegzumillo]

OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD! The nuclear engines don't need oxidizer anymore! I've been trying to get a decent spaceplane with nukes ever since 1.0 came out and I just now noticed they don't need oxidizer anymore. That changes everything! haha The moment I realized that, my completely "oxidizerless" spaceplane went to the mun lol. Now jets and nukes are truly meant for eachother.

Edited May 4, 2015 by diegzumillo

[basic.syntax]

One thing that will help with this, I think, is whenever they get around to adding the "tier 0" buildings, so you upgrade each building 3 times instead of just 2. That will allow for the steps to be smaller, and ought to help out with the waiting-to-upgrade-the-science-building doldrums.

Agree with this, sad it didn't make it into 1.0. Maxmaps said in Friday's Squadcast that "Tier 0" should be in v1.1. I'm expecting a little bit more news of v1.1 plans in this Friday's Squadcast; far-flung Squad employees are gathering in Mexico this week.

[problemecium]

I think I'm going to officially retract my earlier complaints about 1.0.2's souposphere. I ran a bunch of tests and calculations and determined that it really wasn't any harder to get to orbit than it had been back in Beta - in fact it's still easier from a pure dV standpoint. I'd just been spoiled by 1.0.0, and I had to revise my strategies for launcher construction and flying.

Actually I have a new complaint: Too many rescue contracts, gah! I know I could just reject them, but with no indication that anyone else is going to go up and get the poor Kerbals I'd feel bad about it. Consequently my Astronaut Complex is flooded far above capacity with rescuees. I tried just storing them aboard my station, but apparently that doesn't completely prevent new rescue contracts from spawning, and I needed to finish my existing contracts in order to get new ones and thereby have money.

All in all though, I'd say having too many Kerbals is a good problem to have, so don't take this too seriously xD

Edited May 5, 2015 by parameciumkid

[basic.syntax]

"If only" we could put rescued Kerbals back on the job market, to be snapped up at random intervals - extra profit above the rescue payment - by a mysterious, non-existent rival space agency.

[ArmchairGravy]

I like the rescue contracts. Some schlub has to man those science stations, and I like getting them not just for free, but to be paid to increase my roster. I just did a rescue of a kerbal and his capsule. Bonus claw action!

[MrFancyPL]

Why making SSTO is harder in KSP 1.0 ?

[diegzumillo]

Why making SSTO is harder in KSP 1.0 ?

It's not as hard as it seems. It's very different, so all you knew about it is obsolete. Once you figure out how everything works you can judge if you think it's harder or easier. I'm still deciding.