[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[Yuri kagarin56]

38 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

On the first I haven't played enough with the new system to know why you get the two different values.

 

On the second picture I believe all you have turned on there are the recyclers, which lower food consumption but don't actually make more supplies.  Who said USI-LS was easier?  I never considered it easier, just different.  With the latest changes it is definitely not easier than TAC-LS.

Ive got the life support turned on as well. And agroponics. Ive followed the tutorial on mks-l and ive got it all set up right in theory it should be mass producing supplies. Also roverdude said that. Its designed to be in between tac and snacks. Not anymore I guess.

Things are really messed up right now. I just cant produce anything. I put people in the hab and my supplies go up. Switch them back to the scout pod my supplies just drained from 200 to 0 in 5 seconds. And when ive got my kerbals in the hab I dont produce any mulch.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Yuri kagarin56

[RoverDude]

hmm... you should most definitely not be making fertilizer... let me see what's up, probably a bug on my end

[Yuri kagarin56]

19 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

hmm... you should most definitely not be making fertilizer... let me see what's up, probably a bug on my end

Any idea about supplies draining in seconds and supply readouts coming out wrong?

[RoverDude]

Will have to take a peek.  The readout difference is because the colony bit is likely not accounting for consumption

[yorshee]

I apologize if this has already been asked, but is there a way to make a base/station self-sustaining? I have a space station in LKO with 6 of the large greenhouses on it but it can't seem to generate enough food to feed three Kerbals.

[Kobymaru]

8 minutes ago, yorshee said:

I apologize if this has already been asked, but is there a way to make a base/station self-sustaining? I have a space station in LKO with 6 of the large greenhouses on it but it can't seem to generate enough food to feed three Kerbals.

1. You need turn on life support recyclers. You can do so by clicking "Start Life Support" in the right click menu of the Mobile Processing lab. This will reduce the consumption by 70%.

2. No, it's not possible without extracting ressources from the ground. You need Gypsum, Substrate and Water, to produce an output of Fertilizer and Supplies.

[goldenpsp]

11 minutes ago, yorshee said:

I apologize if this has already been asked, but is there a way to make a base/station self-sustaining? I have a space station in LKO with 6 of the large greenhouses on it but it can't seem to generate enough food to feed three Kerbals.

With just USI-LS?  no.  The only way to make USI-LS self sustaining is through the creation of food, with say MKS by mining raw materials needed to produce food.

[yorshee]

1 hour ago, Kobymaru said:

1. You need turn on life support recyclers. You can do so by clicking "Start Life Support" in the right click menu of the Mobile Processing lab. This will reduce the consumption by 70%.

2. No, it's not possible without extracting ressources from the ground. You need Gypsum, Substrate and Water, to produce an output of Fertilizer and Supplies.

 

1 hour ago, goldenpsp said:

With just USI-LS?  no.  The only way to make USI-LS self sustaining is through the creation of food, with say MKS by mining raw materials needed to produce food.

Ah, I see. Thank you!

[RoverDude]

Unrelated - I love your work, @yorshee!

[RoverDude]

0.3.10 - 2016.02.08
-------------------
Fixed an issue where recyclers were working without their resources

[sh1pman]

5 hours ago, RoverDude said:

0.3.10 - 2016.02.08
-------------------
Fixed an issue where recyclers were working without their resources

They don't seem to work for me now. The supply consumption rate stays at 100% no matter how many of them I turn on.

Edited February 8, 2016 by sh1pman

[RoverDude]

hrm... let me take a look at that...

[RoverDude]

(mine shows the opposite - it leaves the recyclers on even if you later turn them off :D)

I do have an update, but it will be this evening

[sh1pman]

23 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

(mine shows the opposite - it leaves the recyclers on even if you later turn them off :D)

I do have an update, but it will be this evening

My old base seems to be stuck at 89.6 supplies/day with 6 kerbals. It has two 50% recyclers and six 25% ones, but turning them on or off does nothing. Previously it had a proper 48.6 sup/day rate. However, my new crafts behave just as you described, being stuck at the lowest consumption rate they achieved. 

Unrelated: going on EVA and back can reset hab time.

Edited February 8, 2016 by sh1pman

[goldenpsp]

46 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

(mine shows the opposite - it leaves the recyclers on even if you later turn them off :D)

I do have an update, but it will be this evening

I can confirm I am seeing the same thing, both with stock USI-LS recyclers (science lab) and MKS modules

 

@sh1pman.  One thought.  I noticed from the MKS thread that you are also running the SETI Rebalance mod.  I haven't kept up on that in a long time but it has had a history of tweaking USI mod settings, so I would be wary of it causing some odd interaction with USI-LS and MKS, especially if you seem to be seeing the opposite kinds of issues that Roverdude is. (it was bad enough that at one point Roverdude stopped supporting things as soon as SETI was mentioned).

[Kobymaru]

Just a little curious note on the recycler issue, that might help debugging. 

I have 2 disconnected vessels in space. Turning on the Recycler on one vessel causes the consumption on the other vessel to go down:

 

Also, (but this is a seperate issue), as you can see from this picture, the hab timer from the one vessel with only a Mk-3 Cockpit has "copied" the habitation value from the whole interplanetary ship with all of the habitation stuff.

Do you want GitHub issues for these things or am I misunderstanding stuff?

Edited February 8, 2016 by Kobymaru

[sh1pman]

36 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

I can confirm I am seeing the same thing, both with stock USI-LS recyclers (science lab) and MKS modules

 

@sh1pman.  One thought.  I noticed from the MKS thread that you are also running the SETI Rebalance mod.  I haven't kept up on that in a long time but it has had a history of tweaking USI mod settings, so I would be wary of it causing some odd interaction with USI-LS and MKS, especially if you seem to be seeing the opposite kinds of issues that Roverdude is. (it was bad enough that at one point Roverdude stopped supporting things as soon as SETI was mentioned).

I just have its CustomBarnKit settings file that drops the cost for hiring kerbals back to reasonable amount. I deleted everything else from that folder.

And it's not like I have opposite kinds of issues. I see exactly the same issue with new crafts.

Edited February 8, 2016 by sh1pman

[goldenpsp]

43 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

I just have its CustomBarnKit settings file that drops the cost for hiring kerbals back to reasonable amount. I deleted everything else from that folder.

And it's not like I have opposite kinds of issues. I see exactly the same issue with new crafts.

Sorry misunderstood with the new crafts thing.

[Perry Apsis]

I am a little confused. I'm running MKS-L and USI-LS. In USI-LS.version, I've got

     "VERSION":{
         "MAJOR":0,
         "MINOR":1,
         "PATCH":7,
         "BUILD":0
     },

In LifeSupport/settings.cfg, I've got OrangeImmunity = True. But there are Valentina and Bob, playing Space Tourist. I've looked through the rest of the directory tree for USI, and I can't find any other cfg file that has any reference to orange, veterans, immunity, or tourists. Any thoughts about what I'm doing wrong? (Aside from starving my Kerbals, which I also don't understand, because they should have had at least two more years of supplies.)

Thanks,

Perry

[Kobymaru]

3 hours ago, Perry Apsis said:

I am a little confused. I'm running MKS-L and USI-LS. In USI-LS.version, I've got

     "VERSION":{
         "MAJOR":0,
         "MINOR":1,
         "PATCH":7,
         "BUILD":0
     },

In LifeSupport/settings.cfg, I've got OrangeImmunity = True. But there are Valentina and Bob, playing Space Tourist. I've looked through the rest of the directory tree for USI, and I can't find any other cfg file that has any reference to orange, veterans, immunity, or tourists. Any thoughts about what I'm doing wrong? (Aside from starving my Kerbals, which I also don't understand, because they should have had at least two more years of supplies.)

Thanks,

Perry

Well, for starters, i would suggest updating, because you are running an ancient version. The current one is 0.3.11

The good news is that this bug was fixed (I think). The bad news is, EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT. Or close enough. I can't find RoverDudes posts ATM (thanks, gigantic forum thread without subdivisions like in a subforum), but here's the bottom line:

- Consumption is up 4-fold. Yep.

- Recyclers are available that reduce the consumption by 4 times, (so to the old level). Those are now in the stock Mobile processing lab and in some MKS parts.

- kerbals don't like being cooped up too long, they get homesick. Bring more space than needed, and bring multipliers. Those would be the cupola and the hitchiker.

- everything is configurable. If you have MKS, you have to configure it twice, once in the USI-LS settings, once in UKS/USI-LS.cfg

-not all the bugs are out just yet

Happy life supporting.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Kobymaru

[Kobymaru]

This is GitHub issues #72, just posting here to generate some attention:

 

Please consider the following two pictures:

 

Here you see, that in the 10 seconds that have passed between the screenshots, the remaining habitation time has gone down by 31 seconds.

It seems that when the Recyclers are enabled, they produce "Wear" (consume ReplacementParts), that reduces the vessels maximum habitation time which in turn reduces the kerbals current habitation time, faster than the game time.

I'm not sure if the Wear produced by the Recyclers is a feature (why would recycling cause wear on the parts?).

Either way, the habitation time readout should show the actual time that the Kerbal has currently left, not "a time if no recyclers were running". This should also be reflected in the VAB in order to reduce surprises.

[Kobymaru]

Another issue, #73:

tl;dr: Even if your net production of supplies on a vessel is positive, leaving it unfocused and timewarping long periods depletes the supplies storage when you come back to it.

[Death Engineering]

44 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

Either way, the habitation time readout should show the actual time that the Kerbal has currently left, not "a time if no recyclers were running". This should also be reflected in the VAB in order to reduce surprises.

On the same cant, I think, it would be nice if LS supplies remaining reflected using the greenhouse bits when they are operational. Predictions wouldn't have to necessarily reflect forward-looking source materials supply (ie mulch), it could be a momentary thing showing 'at present rate..'.  Keep up the great work, RD!

[Sir_Robert]

This mod seems exactly what I am looking for. I've always wanted the feel of life support, without the punishing 'one mistake and your Kerbals are dead'.

After toying around, I do however have 1 request. Is there a list of how much supplies a Kerbal consumes per day? My initial toying around told me Jeb eats 16,2 a day, is that universal? And if it is, could you list this number on the life support parts in the VAB? It would take some initial guess work, or trying to remember the numbers, out of the construction

[goldenpsp]

4 minutes ago, Sir_Robert said:

This mod seems exactly what I am looking for. I've always wanted the feel of life support, without the punishing 'one mistake and your Kerbals are dead'.

After toying around, I do however have 1 request. Is there a list of how much supplies a Kerbal consumes per day? My initial toying around told me Jeb eats 16,2 a day, is that universal? And if it is, could you list this number on the life support parts in the VAB? It would take some initial guess work, or trying to remember the numbers, out of the construction

yep 16 per day. across the board.