[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[Kershu5]

Yeah that's what I'm doing, pretty much.  I'm only willing to gut so much of the thing, because I do love it, just..  Urgh.  Standard hab times, without any ability to replenish them, sending anything to anywhere requires so much stuff my game chugs hard.

[RoverDude]

1 hour ago, Kershu5 said:

Hrm.  I'll ask a different question- how does one turn the habitation limits stuff off?

 

e: never mind, found it in the Kolonization stuff.  Much as I love all your work RoverDude, the habitation limit thing is just painful for me to juggle.

No worries, that being said - if you do go back to the standard mechanics, it's pretty easy to get to a happy place with hab.

- Only bring the Kerbals you need.
- Give them their own rooms
- Add in hab multipliers to extend hab time, recyclers to reduce supply consumption.

Just wait till health, radiation, and sanity come into the mix   But then this is why all of the bits can be turned on/off

[Kershu5]

If it was possible to increase the sustainability of the habitats (maybe build replacement parts out of material kits?  Or something) then I'd be fine.  But until I get more RAM or whatever it is I need to make my PC run the game smoothly with "large part count setups" it becomes an exercise in frustration to build a thing that won't last very long..

[lodestar]

9 minutes ago, Kershu5 said:

If it was possible to increase the sustainability of the habitats (maybe build replacement parts out of material kits?  Or something) then I'd be fine.  But until I get more RAM or whatever it is I need to make my PC run the game smoothly with "large part count setups" it becomes an exercise in frustration to build a thing that won't last very long..

Have you considered running on Linux? I can't even imagine going back to playing KSP on Windows.

On the other hand, I don't know if @RoverDude has such a thing in mind, but I would love to have something like a huge inflatable dome that serves as habitat for a dozen kerbals or more, and something similar for aeroponics and workshop. That would be fun.

 

 

[mcortez]

I'd like to see a cross over from the USI asteroid mod, but instead of hollowing out to create tank storage, it creates underground hab space -- which would be radiation resistant!

Of course, if those bits don't currently work on other bodies, they'll be of limited use.

Need 3D printers that use water and substrate to print blocks for structures - does duna have sulfur & fine particle dirt like they're playing with for the Mars cement?

[Kershu5]

I know screw-all about Linux, Windows works just fine for me otherwise.

[Ziw]

@RoverDude Do you plan more recycler parts with 75%+ efficiency? For now the only option for a decent ship for long interplanetary travel would to include pioneer module/colony hub. Or bring up the huge supplies kontainter.

Of course I can manually add recycling to existing parts,  but if you have something coming I'd rather wait.

[PocketBrotector]

42 minutes ago, Kershu5 said:

If it was possible to increase the sustainability of the habitats (maybe build replacement parts out of material kits?  Or something) then I'd be fine.  But until I get more RAM or whatever it is I need to make my PC run the game smoothly with "large part count setups" it becomes an exercise in frustration to build a thing that won't last very long..

Release notes for UKS indicated this should already be possible.

Unrelated: I'm getting some curious results from hab multiplier parts. With just a cupola and one kerbal, the build aid is showing a hab time of 559 days. Also for larger vessels, hab time decreases very quickly as additional crew members are added (for example a crew of two has a hab time of ~1/4 that of a crew of one.)

[Kobymaru]

3 minutes ago, Ziw said:

@RoverDude Do you plan more recycler parts with 75%+ efficiency? For now the only option for a decent ship for long interplanetary travel would to include pioneer module/colony hub. Or bring up the huge supplies kontainter.

Of course I can manually add recycling to existing parts,  but if you have something coming I'd rather wait.

He has already mentioned that something is in the works. Meanwhile, you could turn off the increased consumption by setting EnableRecyclers = true (i think) in <KSP>/GameData/UmbraSpaceIndustries/LifeSupport/Settings.cfg

[tater]

For other hab mods (planetary bases, for example, which already supports the older USILS version) what would I need to add to the cfg to use them, or does LSModule.cfg already do this? I have a few bases already established that have crew aboard, and I don't want to bump anyone off.

[Kershu5]

2 hours ago, mcortez said:

I don't know about off, but you could adjust the base HabMultiplier and BaseHabTime values in the Settings.cfg file -- change them from 1 to something bigger (10 or 100) and you shouldn't have to worry about it for long time (possibly longer than you'll give your save around.)

I'm not sure if the NoHomeEffect values change Hab behavior or not, it's possible they might.  You are of course at that point gutting 1/3rd of the new mechanics from the mod though.

Setting the NoHomeEffects to 0 causes Habitation to be "indefinite" so yeah that's the easiest way to turn it off.

[RoverDude]

1 hour ago, Kershu5 said:

If it was possible to increase the sustainability of the habitats (maybe build replacement parts out of material kits?  Or something) then I'd be fine.  But until I get more RAM or whatever it is I need to make my PC run the game smoothly with "large part count setups" it becomes an exercise in frustration to build a thing that won't last very long..

Has nothing to do with RAM... and I've easily built long term bases with the bits included at a fairly low part count.  And btw... you already make replacement parts out of material kits   Just do a perform maintenance function.  But your base remains fundamentally flawed because you have too many Kerbals with too little working space - nothing is going to fix that.

1 hour ago, lodestar said:

Have you considered running on Linux? I can't even imagine going back to playing KSP on Windows.

On the other hand, I don't know if @RoverDude has such a thing in mind, but I would love to have something like a huge inflatable dome that serves as habitat for a dozen kerbals or more, and something similar for aeroponics and workshop. That would be fun.

 

 

Yes, such parts are in the works.  Plus some rigid parts which are a lot more durable/long term than bouncy castles.

1 hour ago, mcortez said:

I'd like to see a cross over from the USI asteroid mod, but instead of hollowing out to create tank storage, it creates underground hab space -- which would be radiation resistant!

Of course, if those bits don't currently work on other bodies, they'll be of limited use.

Need 3D printers that use water and substrate to print blocks for structures - does duna have sulfur & fine particle dirt like they're playing with for the Mars cement?

Interesting idea   Log a github issue

38 minutes ago, Ziw said:

@RoverDude Do you plan more recycler parts with 75%+ efficiency? For now the only option for a decent ship for long interplanetary travel would to include pioneer module/colony hub. Or bring up the huge supplies kontainter.

Of course I can manually add recycling to existing parts,  but if you have something coming I'd rather wait.

Yes - but it will require water (since that's your major constraint, and you can't recycle this stuff indefinitely).

34 minutes ago, PocketBrotector said:

Release notes for UKS indicated this should already be possible.

Unrelated: I'm getting some curious results from hab multiplier parts. With just a cupola and one kerbal, the build aid is showing a hab time of 559 days. Also for larger vessels, hab time decreases very quickly as additional crew members are added (for example a crew of two has a hab time of ~1/4 that of a crew of one.)

Grab the latest release tho the Cupola is bugged at the moment - if you still get weird results, show me a screenshot.

27 minutes ago, tater said:

For other hab mods (planetary bases, for example, which already supports the older USILS version) what would I need to add to the cfg to use them, or does LSModule.cfg already do this? I have a few bases already established that have crew aboard, and I don't want to bump anyone off.

You would need to add configs for hab value or hab multipliers (modules tend to be one or the other).  Recommended values are based on mass so stuff balances correctly.  There are notes in this in LSModule.cfg

[tater]

Yeah I saw that. I will give that a look and hopefully not break anything. I'll make a copy of the save to open first, in case I bork something

[Kershu5]

I can't see how it's "too many kerbals" to be honest here, 'Dude.  You need at least 5 in there to begin with so that your other Kerbals don't suffer from loneliness.  Adding a couple more for a rounded team of research personnel and construction/maintenance/hydroponics shouldn't be that painful..  Unless the idea is to make more disconnected bases which have smaller crew counts each to begin with I guess?

[PocketBrotector]

13 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Grab the latest release tho the Cupola is bugged at the moment - if you still get weird results, show me a screenshot.

Sure thing. I am running 0.3.4. Here are the values I'm getting with a Pioneer, Kerbitat, inflated hab ring, and inflated orbital ag module:

• 1 crew - 53y,27d
• 2 crew - 13y,295d
• 3 crew - 6y,117d
• 4 crew - 3y,270d

Screenshots here. 

[RoverDude]

Actually... yeah, with that small of a crew that makes sense

You got a 'Red Dwarf' situation going on with just a couple of kerbals in a very well equipped ship

(to put it another way - doing a small crewed trip to eeloo and back can be done with a hab ring and a decent recycler).

[Fraz86]

Roverdude, I briefly experimented with 0.3.4 this morning and got some bizarre results with the HabMultiplier. I used a simple ModuleManager patch to give the Cupola a HabMultiplier of 2 for testing purposes. Subsequently, in the VAB, a lone Cupola with one Kerbal gave a habitation rating of 2y410d (1260d). I can't figure out how it arrived at 1260d from a total crew capacity of 1 and a HabMultiplier of 2, but that can't possibly be correct.

[apocriva]

It looks like I have a vessel which is being tracked in the Life Support Monitor, but no longer exists. Possibly from renaming the vessel? I've been doing some silly things trying to get a base up and running in orbit around the Mun. lol

What's the earliest Recycler that's available as of the latest release (0.3.4)? I'm using Community Tech Tree and am having a hard time finding modules that I can use to help extend the life of my vessels.

EDIT: I'm having a hard time finding them because it's really hard to read the tech tree in general, not because of the parts themselves.

Edited January 25, 2016 by apocriva

[ExplorerKlatt]

1 hour ago, Kershu5 said:

I can't see how it's "too many kerbals" to be honest here, 'Dude.  You need at least 5 in there to begin with so that your other Kerbals don't suffer from loneliness.  Adding a couple more for a rounded team of research personnel and construction/maintenance/hydroponics shouldn't be that painful..  Unless the idea is to make more disconnected bases which have smaller crew counts each to begin with I guess?

He told you how in the same post where he said it was too many. The single hab module is only enough space for 2 Kerbals. The solution would be to remove some kerbals or add more hab modules. 

[lodestar]

I'm having a hard time understanding how the Life Support/Recycler mechanics works. I have a base with 1x Pioneer, 1x Kerbitat, 1x Aeroponics, 4x MK-V Agro, 2x MK-V Hab, and at the moment only 2 kerbals. With everything turned off, they consume 32.4/day. If I start the Pioneer Life Support, it drops to 8.1/day, 75% as expected, but there's no cumulative effect. Even if I start Life Support in all modules, it stays on 8.1/day. What am I missing?

[PocketBrotector]

7 minutes ago, lodestar said:

I'm having a hard time understanding how the Life Support/Recycler mechanics works. I have a base with 1x Pioneer, 1x Kerbitat, 1x Aeroponics, 4x MK-V Agro, 2x MK-V Hab, and at the moment only 2 kerbals. With everything turned off, they consume 32.4/day. If I start the Pioneer Life Support, it drops to 8.1/day, 75% as expected, but there's no cumulative effect. Even if I start Life Support in all modules, it stays on 8.1/day. What am I missing?

Your best recycler functions as a cap on your recycling effectiveness. Currently the best recycler is the pioneer module which can reduce supply consumption by 75% for up to five kerbals. If you have more than five kerbals, you can supplement it with other recyclers (not necessarily additional pioneer modules - you could have kerbitat/aeroponics or inflatables, for example) to bring the total recycle rate back up to 75%.

[lodestar]

5 minutes ago, PocketBrotector said:

Your best recycler functions as a cap on your recycling effectiveness. Currently the best recycler is the pioneer module which can reduce supply consumption by 75% for up to five kerbals. If you have more than five kerbals, you can supplement it with other recyclers (not necessarily additional pioneer modules - you could have kerbitat/aeroponics or inflatables, for example) to bring the total recycle rate back up to 75%.

OK. So, the changelog message about always being good to add more recyclers isn't exactly accurate. It only brings benefits if the current recyclers are overloaded. 

[mcortez]

1 minute ago, lodestar said:

OK. So, the changelog message about always being good to add more recyclers isn't exactly accurate. It only brings benefits if the current recyclers are overloaded. 

I can't remember if that's one of the ones that Roverdude posted about before the release, where he said it would improve but only up to some limit.  

I think he did indicate that things should not be able to reach 100%, that you would need to introduce new resources either by mining for them in-situ or shipping them in.  Future fertilizer generators will allow for that when landed, but it doesn't look like we'll be able to reach 100% self-sustainable in OKS.

Hmm, wonder if future updates will let us cannibalize Kerbals?

[sh1pman]

33 minutes ago, mcortez said:

Future fertilizer generators will allow for that when landed

I hope there will be Kow Farms that generate fertilizer from supplies!

[mcortez]

Mulch -> Mushroooms -> Kow Farms -> Profit?

Having only recently read The Martian, I inexplicably want to somehow do something with potatoes...  But to me it would seem like mushrooms would be easier, although probably less life sustaining... :/