[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[tsaven]

42 minutes ago, cantab said:

I wonder, how involved would it be to make an "interconverter" part? For example something that can turn TAC Water, Food, and Oxygen into USI Supplies, or vice versa? That should be doable with Module Manager and stock functionality, right?

I mean, you could probably kludge together something, but why?

[Gilph]

5 hours ago, Sol Invictus said:

Is it possible to rename all instances of "mulch" into "waste" in USI-LS? Using some simple Module Manager script for instance. I know it's a silly thing, but it would ease the transition from TAC-LS to USI-LS for me.

I see issues in trying to do this.  There are attempts to integrate TAC into the USI family.  By naming two separate resources that behave differently to the same name will be confusing at best.

I'm a huge fan of TAC-LS, but IMHO, trying to use it in USI is not fun.  I do not recommend it at all. So, i did the much harder thing of playing two separate career saves: one for USI, and one for TAC-LS/KPBS/DMagic, which I also enjoy a lot.  It is confusing to switch between the two (which sometimes causes me to ask stupid crap in forums on stuff I should already know ), but it feels like two separate games.

Hope this helps.

[Merkov]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding exactly what you are asking, but if you mean a part that let's you convert TAC-LS resources to USI-LS resources in the same save, then you are going to run into issues with the fact that you have two life support mods installed. Last time I checked, having both installed at once meant that you needed both sets of resources to keep your kerbals healthy. That is, if you run out of USI OR TAC resources, you lose kerbals. 

[Agustin]

I think MKS Forum disappeared. And I wanted to ask there if in the latest release there were some parts removed (which eliminated some of my ships but I don't really care) or am I just installing it wrong? I remember there were some small radial supplies container and it isn't there anymore. Is this intended?

Re-installed. Everything is there!

Edited January 6, 2017 by Agustin

[revolioclockbergjr]

43 minutes ago, Merkov said:

I'm not sure if I'm understanding exactly what you are asking, but if you mean a part that let's you convert TAC-LS resources to USI-LS resources in the same save, then you are going to run into issues with the fact that you have two life support mods installed. Last time I checked, having both installed at once meant that you needed both sets of resources to keep your kerbals healthy. That is, if you run out of USI OR TAC resources, you lose kerbals. 

I am currently playing a career game with both USI and TACLS installed. They do not "conflict" except in the sense that they each impose new requirements on ship design. And each has a different set of effects on kerbals that can be customized.

I like the design constraints. And it's easy to think that there would be more stuff needed to send little green dudes to space than just food/water/oxygen (TAC stuff), which is where Habitation and Supplies fits in a roleplaying sense. Of course, supplies are largely organic and come from greenhouses... but I just pretend they're not food, but something else kerbals need for spacey stuff.

Edited January 6, 2017 by revolioclockbergjr

[Garibaldi2257]

29 minutes ago, Agustin said:

I think MKS Forum disappeared. And I wanted to ask there if in the latest release there were some parts removed (which eliminated some of my ships but I don't really care) or am I just installing it wrong? I remember there were some small radial supplies container and it isn't there anymore. Is this intended?

I don't know the answer to your question, but a large number of threads have disappeared, the mods and Squad IT are on it.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Garibaldi2257

[mcortez]

I'll leave the why / why not out of it.

To answer your question, it would be fairly trivial to make a converter part.  You could simply copy the part config for an existing part that converts one resource into another and edit the input and output resources.

[cantab]

Yeah, I admit the "point" is a bit dubious. It might help with use of other mods that work with life support resources; a single interconverter would make any built-for-TAC greenhouse for example work with USI-LS rather than needing a special compatibility patch for every part.

[RoverDude]

1 hour ago, Agustin said:

I think MKS Forum disappeared. And I wanted to ask there if in the latest release there were some parts removed (which eliminated some of my ships but I don't really care) or am I just installing it wrong? I remember there were some small radial supplies container and it isn't there anymore. Is this intended?

No parts were removed... hopefully we get that thread back

1 hour ago, revolioclockbergjr said:

I am currently playing a career game with both USI and TACLS installed. They do not "conflict" except in the sense that they each impose new requirements on ship design. And each has a different set of effects on kerbals that can be customized.

I like the design constraints. And it's easy to think that there would be more stuff needed to send little green dudes to space than just food/water/oxygen (TAC stuff), which is where Habitation and Supplies fits in a roleplaying sense. Of course, supplies are largely organic and come from greenhouses... but I just pretend they're not food, but something else kerbals need for spacey stuff.

Supplies are 90% water.

47 minutes ago, cantab said:

Yeah, I admit the "point" is a bit dubious. It might help with use of other mods that work with life support resources; a single interconverter would make any built-for-TAC greenhouse for example work with USI-LS rather than needing a special compatibility patch for every part.

The rub being that the balances are radically different, and there are a lot of concepts in USI-LS that simply don't exist in TAC-LS.  

[WuphonsReach]

9 hours ago, revolioclockbergjr said:

I am currently playing a career game with both USI and TACLS installed. They do not "conflict" except in the sense that they each impose new requirements on ship design. And each has a different set of effects on kerbals that can be customized.

I like the design constraints. And it's easy to think that there would be more stuff needed to send little green dudes to space than just food/water/oxygen (TAC stuff), which is where Habitation and Supplies fits in a roleplaying sense. Of course, supplies are largely organic and come from greenhouses... but I just pretend they're not food, but something else kerbals need for spacey stuff.

You'd need to start (and probably in a different thread, probably in AddOn Development) by putting together a list of the TAC-LS resources, plus the USI-LS resources, their various attributes like mass / volume in a spreadsheet.

Then define the processes that you want to use to convert A into B, or A+B into C.  That means defining the number of input units per second, the number of output units per second, and the EC/s to run the converter.  Once you've nailed down your desired balance (mass balance in particular), you could then write the ModuleManager patch to create a new part, or add functionality to an existing part.

[Sol Invictus]

14 hours ago, Gilph said:

I see issues in trying to do this.  There are attempts to integrate TAC into the USI family.  By naming two separate resources that behave differently to the same name will be confusing at best.

I'm a huge fan of TAC-LS, but IMHO, trying to use it in USI is not fun.  I do not recommend it at all. So, i did the much harder thing of playing two separate career saves: one for USI, and one for TAC-LS/KPBS/DMagic, which I also enjoy a lot.  It is confusing to switch between the two (which sometimes causes me to ask stupid crap in forums on stuff I should already know ), but it feels like two separate games.

Hope this helps.

I think you may have misunderstood me. I'm not trying to use TAC-LS and USI-LS simultaneously, it would be absurd. I want to start a new game using USI-LS instead of TAC-LS as my life support mod, reason being that USI-LS provides better integration with USI Kolonization. However I don't quite like certain design aspects of USI-LS, one of which is name "mulch". I just can't get over that, no matter how hard I try. I would join USI-LS camp right away if only there was a way for me to replace the name "mulch" with "waste". There would be no other resource called "waste" in my new game, so it would not be confusing at all.

[RoverDude]

Regrettably, no way of doing that.

Well, not without some code changes on my side

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, Sol Invictus said:

I think you may have misunderstood me. I'm not trying to use TAC-LS and USI-LS simultaneously, it would be absurd. I want to start a new game using USI-LS instead of TAC-LS as my life support mod, reason being that USI-LS provides better integration with USI Kolonization. However I don't quite like certain design aspects of USI-LS, one of which is name "mulch". I just can't get over that, no matter how hard I try. I would join USI-LS camp right away if only there was a way for me to replace the name "mulch" with "waste". There would be no other resource called "waste" in my new game, so it would not be confusing at all.

Well the mod is open sourced.  You could jam a fork in that mulch and fling some waste about.

[RoverDude]

Except that there would be a conflict with CRP, or you'd have even more weirdness because of mass differences.

[goldenpsp]

5 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Except that there would be a conflict with CRP, or you'd have even more weirdness because of mass differences.

Way to rain on my catchy sentence.  I was trying to be more tactful than making a comment about word triggering.  I have to keep my warnings in check.

By the way I'm not sure if its a bug or just an initialization thing.  I finally loaded up 1.2.2 to play again.  When I first loaded up a new save and clicke on the USI-LS settings from the KSC scene it was blank.  After going in and out a couple times the settings did show up.  Seems fine as far as playing although I haven't gotten very far yet.  (latest constellation download).

Edited January 6, 2017 by goldenpsp

[Gilph]

4 hours ago, Sol Invictus said:

I think you may have misunderstood me. I'm not trying to use TAC-LS and USI-LS simultaneously, it would be absurd. I want to start a new game using USI-LS instead of TAC-LS as my life support mod, reason being that USI-LS provides better integration with USI Kolonization. However I don't quite like certain design aspects of USI-LS, one of which is name "mulch". I just can't get over that, no matter how hard I try. I would join USI-LS camp right away if only there was a way for me to replace the name "mulch" with "waste". There would be no other resource called "waste" in my new game, so it would not be confusing at all.

Nope...understood just fine.  I don't think you read my post correctly.  Mulch is not Waste. Mulch behaves like Mulch and Waste behaves like Waste.  If the mod writers wanted Mulch to be Waste, they would have just used Waste.  But, if different LS systems wanted to use Waste, as it is a CRP item, then things like parts, tanks, conversion ratios, etc. would need to be coordinated for things to work right. Also, USI-LS is not the only USI mod that uses mulch, the MKS converters also use it, so that would need to change also.

[Platonicsolid]

Just want to say thanks very much for the fixes, RoverDude. Had been holding off on playing until these got fixed.

[RoverDude]

Glad you dig it   Let me know if I managed to break anything else!

[tseitsei89]

Is there an easy way to make kerbals actually die instead of going to strike if they run out of supplies?

[RoverDude]

Yep - change the setting by opening the life support menu while at the space center

[jd284]

On 6.1.2017 at 5:44 AM, cantab said:

Yeah, I admit the "point" is a bit dubious. It might help with use of other mods that work with life support resources; a single interconverter would make any built-for-TAC greenhouse for example work with USI-LS rather than needing a special compatibility patch for every part.

I made a MM patch for that purpose some time ago, it worked in 1.1, haven't tried in 1.2 since I switched to USI-LS. It adds a hexcan using TAC converters. The conversion rates might also be off now. But you can use it as a start.

Spoiler

//# New part for USI/TAC converters
+PART[HexCanLifeSupportSmall]:Final
{
	@name = USI_TAC_Converter
	@title = TAC Repackaging Facility
	@description = Package or unpackage supplies and mulch waste or separate it again.

	@TechRequired = survivability
	@category = Utility
	@subcategory = 0

	-RESOURCE,* {}

	MODULE
	{
		name = TacGenericConverter
		converterName = supply packaging

		// A scaling factor by which the resource amounts are multiplied
		conversionRate = 1.0

		// A comma separated list of resources to use as inputs.
		// For each resource, list the resource name and the amount (which
		// is multiplied by the conversionRate)
		// these are the daily usages of one kerbal divided by 100 plus some EC
		// i.e. the numbers from TacLifeSupport PluginData LifeSupport.cfg times by 216 (3600*6/100)
		inputResources = Food, 0.00365625, Water, 0.002416625, Oxygen, 0.370124113475, ElectricCharge, 0.3

		// A comma separated list of resources to output. Same as above
		// but also specify whether it should keep converting if the
		// resource is full (generating excess that will be thrown away).
		// this is the daily usage of one kerbal in USI-LS divided by 100
		outputResources = Supplies, 0.0108, false
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = TacGenericConverter
		converterName = supply unpacking

		// A scaling factor by which the resource amounts are multiplied
		conversionRate = 1.0

		// A comma separated list of resources to use as inputs.
		// For each resource, list the resource name and the amount (which
		// is multiplied by the conversionRate)
		inputResources = Supplies, 0.0108, ElectricCharge, 0.3

		// A comma separated list of resources to output. Same as above
		// but also specify whether it should keep converting if the
		// resource is full (generating excess that will be thrown away).
		outputResources = Food, 0.00365625, false, Water, 0.002416625, false, Oxygen, 0.370124113475, false
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = TacGenericConverter
		converterName = mulching

		// A scaling factor by which the resource amounts are multiplied
		conversionRate = 1.0

		// A comma separated list of resources to use as inputs.
		// For each resource, list the resource name and the amount (which
		// is multiplied by the conversionRate)
		inputResources = WasteWater, 0.0030775, Waste, 0.0003325, CarbonDioxide, 0.319707842132, ElectricCharge, 0.3

		// A comma separated list of resources to output. Same as above
		// but also specify whether it should keep converting if the
		// resource is full (generating excess that will be thrown away).
		outputResources = Mulch, 0.0108, false
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = TacGenericConverter
		converterName = mulch separation

		// A scaling factor by which the resource amounts are multiplied
		conversionRate = 1.0

		// A comma separated list of resources to use as inputs.
		// For each resource, list the resource name and the amount (which
		// is multiplied by the conversionRate)
		inputResources = Mulch, 0.0108, ElectricCharge, 0.3

		// A comma separated list of resources to output. Same as above
		// but also specify whether it should keep converting if the
		// resource is full (generating excess that will be thrown away).
		outputResources = WasteWater, 0.0030775, false, Waste, 0.0003325, false, CarbonDioxide, 0.319707842132, false
	}
}

 

 

[qobalt]

I'm loving this mod. Just the right balance for me.

A couple thoughts:

* The change to CTT.cfg on Nov 27, 2016 (759e6c5) appears to be a reversion of SirCharizard17's changes, removing the CTT changes for the new modules. Was this intentional? I've been simply copying in the b737783 version after every update for now, since that feels like the "right" version.

* The hab system still feels somewhat exploitable to me. For example, if a ship is docked to a plush Kerbin station for refueling before heading out, the Kerbals' Home timer can quickly be set very high, after which it's simply a matter of EVAing every now and then (either specifically to exploit, or just for routine EVA tasks) to reset the Home timer. The only solution I can think of would be to track per Kerbal per vessel, and then set the Hab timer to min(KerbalHabTimeRemaining, VesselHab) if the Kerbal had recently been in that vessel (either it's the last vessel visited, or it had been visited within x time). Obviously this would require more code and storage.

[JPLRepo]

I've had a number of players who use this mod and my DeepFreeze mod post on my DeepFreeze thread.
I've done some investigations and believe the bug is in USI LS and nothing is wrong with DeepFreeze calling the correct USI LS method.
As this was working before and DeepFreeze hasn't changed, my money would be on a problem in USI LS.
I've raised a github issue.
https://github.com/BobPalmer/USI-LS/issues/200

Here is the DeepFreeze post:

 

[Kyrt Malthorn]

My first rescue contact with my new career using life support.  All consequences are KIA expect habitability, which is grouchy (veterans exempted from habitability consequence).

My first low Kerbin orbit rescue contact spawns a kerbal in a Nom-o-Matic.  Which has no hatch. 

Well, he's dead.  And I'm in the hole for rep.  

Edit:  aaaand the second contact (which I picked up to see if I could salvage my losses) spawned a kerbal in the viewing cupola.  Which has no hatch.  She's dead.

Please, is there a way to disallow the game from using certain parts for spawning rescue contracts in? Sigh.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Kyrt Malthorn

[ExplorerKlatt]

19 minutes ago, Kyrt Malthorn said:

My first rescue contact with my new career using life support.  All consequences are KIA expect habitability, which is grouchy (veterans exempted from habitability consequence).

My first low Kerbin orbit rescue contact spawns a kerbal in a Nom-o-Matic.  Which has no hatch. 

Well, he's dead.  And I'm in the hole for rep.  

Edit:  aaaand the second contact (which I picked up to see if I could salvage my losses) spawned a kerbal in the viewing cupola.  Which has no hatch.  She's dead.

Please, is there a way to disallow the game from using certain parts for spawning rescue contracts in? Sigh.

 

 

 

 

Try this.