RoverDude

[1.8.x] USI Life Support [0.5.0]

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On 4/28/2015 at 3:37 AM, RoverDude said:

So I have been considering over the past month or two the creation of a life support system tailored to fit in with the USI mods, and also bring together some the bits I like about other mods already on the market, and add a few of my own tweaks, etc.

This is pretty much my interpretation of how, if I were to go buy Kerbal in a store, I would expect a stock-ish life support system to work. I've been playing with it and minus a few refinements am very happy with the result.

With that, I am pleased to introduce USI Life Support.

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Basic overview stuff.

Mechanics wise, it's pretty simple.

Kerbals require supplies. Kerbals also require EC. these are both on the same timer, so I just check supplies for the status window. When Kerbals are done consuming supplies, leftovers, scraps, and 'anything else' is either tossed overboard, or (if storage is available) tossed into a 'mulcher'. The resulting organic slurry is called 'mulch' and can be used to feed greenhouses, etc. at the player's discretion (or in the case of MKS, converted into Organics at varying levels of efficiency).

15 days out, the visuals go yellow (sorry, no auto-warp-slowdown-thingie, use KAC). When supplies run out, things go into the red. If you leave them unsupplied for 15 days...

well, they just say 'screw it', get grouchy, and quit.

They are still in the pod. they still take up a seat. But they can't fly, can't EVA, and essentially do the Kerbal equivelant of spinning around in their office chairs, refusing to work, until resupplied. This is a design consideration in that all of us, at least once, has just flat out done goofed, and lost a whole colony of Kerbals via glich or other sadness. Yes, death/despawn will be an option. Not the default one tho. Mechanics wise, they are transformed into tourists, as they are essentially on a self-imposed vacation :wink:

Once resupplied, they are happy as clams and will return to work.

While on EVA, they will not quit. But if they are brought back aboard a ship and have been starved (and can't find a hot meal waiting) they will promptly go in strike, and begin their self imposed vacation immediately.

Orange suited Kerbals (Jeb, Bill, Bob, and Val) are immune to the ill effects of life support. They will still consume supplies if given, but do not leave the job, because they are just that awesome. This always gives a player (especially a new one) an 'out' to test out a manned mission before actually committing your other kerbals, etc. to a horrible fate of snack deprivation.

Yes, it's a bit more 'Kerbal' than TAC-LS, but also a lot more predictable and with harder consequences than 'Snacks'. It does, however, feel 'right' (at least to me) from a design standpoint.

Parts wise: Three inline storage compartments.

No extra recyclers needed. No resourced added to pods (the 15 day window covers all of the Kerbin SOI so no point). No random contracts.

MKS/OKS Changes

MKS wise, closed loop just got a lot harder/more interesting (depending on your point of view).

The old C3 (now renamed to the Pioneer Module) will have a basic mulcher and greenhouse and can do recycling at 50% efficiency for up to four Kerbals.

Kerbitats operate at 75% efficiency.

Mk-IV modules (once released) will operate at 90% efficiency off-world, 100% efficiency on the surface (pulling in of local material is inferred, no extra drills required).

Supplies come from organics. Organics come either from mulched supply waste, or from a combo of water/substrate. So surface bases are easier to get to self sufficiency - if they are on water/substrate deposits. Orbital will always be a pain - so you will need to fly up fresh organics or keep large stores. And since organics creation is not tied to the life support loop, building large surface farms is also pretty easy now.

Dealing with hungry Kerbals

So you can do some very interesting things. Run a command pod to dock reviving supplies/snacks to a starved out colony ship. Use one of your orange-suits to lead a mission and conserve supplies. Note that Kerbals are pretty damn aggressive about getting their snacks - the only way to lock them out of the biscuit tin is to click that little feed button by the resource on a part (same way we reserve some battery power for a probe).

Note that a Kerbal about to starve (i.e. no supplies for 15 days) will in fact happily break open said biscuit tin. witty screen message included :wink:

Design side note:

So 'Mulch'.

Waste was used, and too generic. And I wanted something that showed that the stuff was kinda useful, not edible, and felt more 'kerbal' (and less like poo!) if that makes sense.

The idea of Kerbals tossing all of the spare bits and scraps into a contraption and getting out a semi-useful generic organic slurry had a certain appeal, hence the abstracted mulchers and mulch resource.

The resource itself is just 'supplies' and has the visual representation of a translucent, semi-rounded green cube. What are they? Well... leave that to the imagination. But the labeling will read 'N.O.M.S. - (Nutritional Organic Meal Substitute)' on the tins

LICENSE:

Configuration files and code are licensed under the GPL v3 license.

Assets, including Models (*.mu) and Textures *.png/*.dds) are All Rights Reserved. If you wish to use any of these assets in your project, just ask nicely :)

DOWNLOAD:

Get it at the GitHub Repo!

https://github.com/BobPalmer/USI-LS/releases

This plus B9 is golden!

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can someone point me to the USI LS spreadsheet for calculating how much LS a part should offer? I can't find it on the wiki

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7 minutes ago, Tyko said:

can someone point me to the USI LS spreadsheet for calculating how much LS a part should offer? I can't find it on the wiki

There is an in-game button, like a green cube.  

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43 minutes ago, eberkain said:

There is an in-game button, like a green cube.  

I believe he wants to create parts, not just use parts others have created.  :wink:

Here's the link to the video, which has a link to the wiki in the description:

 

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On 1/2/2018 at 1:42 PM, CanOmer said:

I suggest: when habitat (for example viewing cupola) is running it should turn the lights on similar to cockpits.

You probably want Crew Light add-on (see link by @canisin)

Unless you're talking about "when the habitat generator is running, turn on the lights", which I don't have a ready answer for.

Edited by WuphonsReach

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12 hours ago, WuphonsReach said:

You probably want Crew Light add-on

https://github.com/WuphonsReach/KSP-StockAntennaBalance/tree/master/GameData/StockAntennaBalance/Contracts

Unless you're talking about "when the habitat generator is running, turn on the lights", which I don't have a ready answer for.

Hey @WuphonsReach, that does not appear to be a link for Crew Light. :)

Here is the correct link:  https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/154901-131-crew-light-an-automatic-light-manager-v110-19-oct-2017/

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tbh, I would not have lights on when hab is active because of a conflict with the mod noted above.

(It is far more likely that I'd just give folks a 'turn everything on' or 'turn everything off' button)

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On 1/20/2018 at 7:01 AM, RoverDude said:

(It is far more likely that I'd just give folks a 'turn everything on' or 'turn everything off' button)

Ooh, now I have visions of an 'Activate all life support' button (perhaps on pioneer modules) that would turn on all life support, and perhaps 'Activate all habitation' and 'Activate all Supply production' (perhaps on habitation/colonization modules and Agricultural modules respectively) buttons as well...

It would make things easier for those times I forget to set the action groups before launching an expansion, but not worth the effort...

... '[Suggestion] 'Start all X' buttons on appropriate modules' #1375 added to git-hub...

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Somehow I had thought that this mod would be somewhat enjoyable even though UKS had gotten on my nerves... So I'm flying a new save.. I don't really have much upgraded yet so I'm desperately scrabbling for science. 

Okay, I have a pretty crap vehicle, what can I do? Okay, I can dead recon Minmus well enough to do a flyby and, hopefully return... I know Minmus is a 14 day trip, under ideal conditions, so I throw Jeb and 16 days of rations on my minimal launcher and send him on his way.  

So he gets to Minmus but refuses to do anything. He still has plenty of supplies but there are these stats which I can't find any documentation on, "hab" and "home". There doesn't seem to be anything I can do about these. Hab?! This is a trip to minmus, not Eeloo, damnit!  as for home, this is JEBEDIAH KERMAN we are talking about, he **IS HOME**. He lives in a Mk1  od, everyone knows that... 

I can keep the solars oriented because I have a mechjeb on the rocket... I mean to say that I have mechjeb on my SERVICE MODULE, when I decouple the pod on entry the thing will spin out of control and JEBEDIAH KERMAN will die.  =| 

Because you invented these ludicrous stats, then it's your fault! YOU KILLED JEBEDIAH KERMAN!!! 

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40 minutes ago, AlonzoTG said:

Because you invented these ludicrous stats, then it's your fault! YOU KILLED JEBEDIAH KERMAN!!! 

Don't you have anything better to do than insult modders out of ignorance?  What do you think RoverDude is going to do, bow to you and change all the USI mechanics so you don't have to read any documentation?  If you don't like USI mods, don't use them.  Plenty of other people are happy with how these things work, and you're not going to win any friends by posting insulting rants about work that people do for free.

He still has plenty of supplies but there are these stats which I can't find any documentation on, "hab" and "home". There doesn't seem to be anything I can do about these.

Habitation mechanics are documented here.

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5 hours ago, Wyzard said:

Don't you have anything better to do than insult modders out of ignorance?  What do you think RoverDude is going to do, bow to you and change all the USI mechanics so you don't have to read any documentation?  If you don't like USI mods, don't use them.  Plenty of other people are happy with how these things work, and you're not going to win any friends by posting insulting rants about work that people do for free.

Habitation mechanics are documented here.

Habitation mechanics are also very clearly presented in the in game KSPedia pages.

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53 minutes ago, Zyme said:

Crash on 1.3.1. Any fixes incoming?

No crash on 1.3.1. Any logs incoming?

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sorry if this information is available somewhere but my searches have not found it...

 

as per USI-LS a kerbal needs x ammount of space to be dedicated to them to calculate the "habitability" value.  i can see this only defined in "Seats" but never defined in "Cubic Meters".

 

is it spelled out anywhere how many cubic Meters of space a Kerbal needs for a "Seat"?

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1 minute ago, Bit Fiddler said:

sorry if this information is available somewhere but my searches have not found it...

 

as per USI-LS a kerbal needs x ammount of space to be dedicated to them to calculate the "habitability" value.  i can see this only defined in "Seats" but never defined in "Cubic Meters".

 

is it spelled out anywhere how many cubic Meters of space a Kerbal needs for a "Seat"?

I don't believe so, at least not directly.  Nor does USI-LS actually calculate the cubic meters per kerbal anywhere, that I know of: It works off of actual seats, habitation bonuses, and habitation multipliers.

So, really the cubic meters per kerbal is more theoretical.  It's more for parts makers to think about: If they're making a large space, they can assign some of that space to habitation bonuses mentally, and create configs that match that.

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right that is my problem... designing a part that has crew space...  and trying to figure out how much space is needed for a seat, and what is then left over for resource tanks, machinery, electronics etc.   just tryig to keep the part in the realm of "reality"

 

i guess i can use the Mk1 crew cabin as a referance as it is just "seat space"

 

 

 

Edited by Bit Fiddler
guess i will just use the Mark1 crew cabin as a referance as it is just "seat space"

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19 minutes ago, Bit Fiddler said:

right that is my problem... designing a part that has crew space...  and trying to figure out how much space is needed for a seat, and what is then left over for resource tanks, machinery, electronics etc.   just tryig to keep the part in the realm of "reality"

 

i guess i can use the Mk1 crew cabin as a referance as it is just "seat space"

It's a bit focused on MKS, but here's a spreadsheet and a link on how to use it that can do some of that for you:

 

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ah this is exactly what i needed.  thanks.   i wanted these bits to fit in the "reality" of USI mods.

 

 

EDIT:

lol ok that spreadsheet is a bit confusing.   watching the video and working along side to try and come up with the numbers for the part i want.   i guess since @RoverDude made it, it is all easy for him to understand, but i am having a hard time figuring out what all it is telling me.  

 

 

@RoverDude  if i was to post the sheet with my numbers in it, could you go over it with me in better detail and help me understand what all the fields are telling me?

Edited by Bit Fiddler

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I might be missing something, but is there a way to make fertilizer using just this mod? Or is that a function of MKS, and if so, which module does it?

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1 hour ago, Errol said:

I might be missing something, but is there a way to make fertilizer using just this mod? Or is that a function of MKS, and if so, which module does it?

There is a module manager patch included that makes it possible to generate Fertilizer from just ore, albeit at a slow rate, and only with the smaller ISRU unit. In my experience, using the smaller drills and ISRU unit without an engineer to speed up the process, the rate of production may not be sufficient to sustain a large group of Kerbals. Getting a good spot for mining ore might help with keeping your base sustainable.

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 you can always up this ratio to fit your needs, if you do not care about being a "pureist" in the reality of USI.  either make the inputs less or the output higher, or both....   depending on where you wish to make the changes.   Lower inputs mean less mining for the same output, higher output will mean more output for the same ammount of mining.  so just decide where you want the "bonus" to be and change this value.  

you can do this in the file directly, or with a MM patch if you do not want to change the default files.

GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\LifeSupport\LSModule.cfg

@PART[MiniISRU]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceConverter_USI
		ConverterName = Fertilizer
		StartActionName = Start ISRU [Ore -> Fertilizer]
		StopActionName = Stop ISRU [Ore -> Fertilizer]

		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = Ore
			Ratio = 2.5
		}
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 30
		}
		OUTPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = Fertilizer
			Ratio = 0.0025
			DumpExcess = False
		}
	}	
}

 

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Perfect, thanks for the help guys. I'm just trying to decided if I want to go USI LS only, or MKS as well. I would likely be turning off the machinery consumption mechanic, as I play with UPFM anyway, and don't want to add too much more to my already enormous install. 

So just to make sure I am understanding correctly, I can achieve a closed loop with just USI LS (no MKS) with the right ratio of drills to kerbals and greenhouses/converters?

Edited by Errol

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in all my previous installs i used TAC-LS and in some ways i do like it better...  However,  over all, in my latest few career games i have lked USI-LS.  it is simpler than TAC in many ways and it integrates into the rest of USI, of wich i run the entire USI family.  in my opinion the entire USI family is a must have. 

 

as for UPFM...  i have never seen this one or (scrapyard) before.  i do however run DANG It! in all my games so this may be worth looking into.  @linuxgurugamer has been working with @RoverDude to make Dang It integrate better with USI.  however even without the proposed changes DangIt. works well.

Edited by Bit Fiddler

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The question isn't USI LS vs TAC LS, I much prefer this mod, which is why I am posting here and using it. The question is MKS or no....the game already runs really slowly on my computer with my 150+ mods. I have most of the rest of the USI stuff, like the warp drives and exploration pack, but MKS is a whole thing. If I can make a closed loop colony that doesn't involve the MKS machinery mechanics at all, and just uses greenhouses from usi ls, that's fine with me. 

Edited by Errol

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ah yes i have over 200 mods in my installs so i feel your pain..   but like i say i run the entire USI family

 

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