[1.12.x] Cryogenic Engines: Liquid Hydrogen and Methane Rockets! (Jan 22, 2022)

[BlueBirdAzurite]

Hi, I have an issue with the Methane engines. They use Liquid methane and oxidizer, but in all of the fuel choices i get there is only lqd methane alone, oxidizer alone, or Liquid methane + Liquid oxygen wich isn't the same as oxidizer. Basically it means that i can't use any of the methane engines.

 

[Tangle]

5 hours ago, BlueBirdAzurite said:

Hi, I have an issue with the Methane engines. They use Liquid methane and oxidizer, but in all of the fuel choices i get there is only lqd methane alone, oxidizer alone, or Liquid methane + Liquid oxygen wich isn't the same as oxidizer. Basically it means that i can't use any of the methane engines.

 

Do they really not work with the third option? If so, definitely try looking for which mod introduces or uses said "liquid oxygen" resource- because this mod doesn't do that.

[BlueBirdAzurite]

It basically doesn't give me the choice for Methane + Oxidizer, only Methane alone.

The H2 tanks doesn't support H2 + Oxidizer, but only H2 alone.

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by BlueBirdAzurite

[explosivekraken]

 add a single  "tharsis" engine please

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by explosivekraken
didn't know what quote did but now i know

[modus]

@explosivekrakenRead the op, first faq

[caipi]

2 hours ago, modus said:

@explosivekrakenRead the op, first faq

Or to put it in other terms, just like Bruce Willis*, Nertea is now retired (well, in Nertea's case: "from KSP1 modding and will only be providing bugfixes").

*I was going to use the name "Sir Thomas Sean Connery since he -in my opinion- showed a similar class of quality in his respective work and a I have a similar respect for his respective work. But I felt that comparing him to a late actor might be somewhat inappropriate. So I hope you don't take the comparison to Bruce Willis in a negative way, Nertea.

[Tangle]

18 hours ago, explosivekraken said:

 add a single  "tharsis" engine please

 

 

That already exists- it's the CE-60 Pavonis.

[Catto]

Why the heck does the Iguanodon say it's a very very big engine, on the size sorting chart, even though it's only 1.875m?

[Tangle]

1 hour ago, siklidkid said:

Why the heck does the Iguanodon say it's a very very big engine, on the size sorting chart, even though it's only 1.875m?

IIRC this is a minor issue with the model that Nertea just hasn't had time to fix. Not that it seems like he's had time for much of KSP1 in general, which is fine

[ChrisF0001]

This is probably a stupid question, but I think I have to ask...

I can't find any fuel tanks that will hold Liquid Methane.  I have the engines unlocked in the VAB, I have CryoTanks in GameData, and I can build a Liquid Hydrogen based rocket just fine.  I can see cryonic fuel tank parts that have a boiloff module that refers to Liquid Methane.  I just can't actually find a way to add a part to a rocket that actually contains the stuff.

Am I doing something stupid?  Or have I stumbled into a mod conflict?

(I have read the first post about B9 Part Switch configs, so  I was also wondering if there might be a button I could press to change the config... but one possible stupid thing I may be doing is failing to see that button.  Or one possible mod conflict might be my insistence on using Modular Fuel Tanks despite the compatibility warning...)

Edited April 29, 2022 by ChrisF0001

[Zelda]

8 hours ago, ChrisF0001 said:

This is probably a stupid question, but I think I have to ask...

I can't find any fuel tanks that will hold Liquid Methane.  I have the engines unlocked in the VAB, I have CryoTanks in GameData, and I can build a Liquid Hydrogen based rocket just fine.  I can see cryonic fuel tank parts that have a boiloff module that refers to Liquid Methane.  I just can't actually find a way to add a part to a rocket that actually contains the stuff.

Am I doing something stupid?  Or have I stumbled into a mod conflict?

(I have read the first post about B9 Part Switch configs, so  I was also wondering if there might be a button I could press to change the config... but one possible stupid thing I may be doing is failing to see that button.  Or one possible mod conflict might be my insistence on using Modular Fuel Tanks despite the compatibility warning...)

You should see a B9 Part Switcher on tank PAWs to choose which fuel they hold. If you aren't, it's almost certainly a Modular Fuel Tanks conflict. I think I had the same conflict and question before, but removing MFT fixed everything.

[alphaprior]

Like others I can't use methane engines because there is no Methane+Oxidizer tank. I have Liquid Methane or Liquid Methane+Liquid Oxygen but it doesn't work, engines won't start.
So are they useless? Because in the same question few posts above there was no answer how to solve this.

[modus]

Hmm. Don't have the game open right now, but is the tyrannosaur (or what's it called) a methane engine? I use that all the time.

Edit: and I'm sure I've used others as well.

Edited June 12, 2022 by modus

[alphaprior]

Allosaur, what fuel are you using?
It's essential that I find the ideal engine and fuel for travelling around Kerbol preferably not atomic engines. Methane seems to be a good option.

[modus]

Just did a little test with the allosaur. Fuel is LqdMethane and Oxidizer

[alphaprior]

Something is wrong with my mods then. I used the same tank I have more options like Helium3, Tritium and other exotic stuff but no LiquidMethane+Oxidizer

[modus]

Just now, alphaprior said:

Something is wrong with my mods then. I used the same tank I have more options like Helium3, Tritium and other exotic stuff but no LiquidMethane+Oxidizer

Do you have Interstellar Fuel Switch? That's known to cause troubles.

[alphaprior]

I found KSP Interstellar Extended to be the problem, once removed tank works as it should but it breaks my game, lots of parts are missing, so my Mun base does not load... I have to see how I'm gonna solve this.

Thanks for driving me to the right direction though.

Edited June 12, 2022 by alphaprior

[HeliosPh0enix]

I have noticed that several stock liquid fuel engines now only take LH2/Ox, despite still being labeled as "Liquid Fuel Engines."  This includes the Skipper, Rhino, and Mammoth.  They appear to also have updated ISP values to reflect using LH2 as well.  Is there a way to fix this?  I have installed the CryoEnginesNFAero, CryoEnginesNFLV, and CryoEnginesRestock patches, but not the CryoEnginesLFO patch.  I have the full NearFuture/FarFuture suite, but not any conflicting mods like KSPIE.

[danfarnsy]

5 hours ago, HeliosPh0enix said:

... Is there a way to fix this?  I have installed the CryoEnginesNFAero, CryoEnginesNFLV, and CryoEnginesRestock patches, but not the CryoEnginesLFO patch. 

The CryoEnginesRestock patch modifies Vector, Skipper, Rhino, and Mammoth to use LH2/Ox. You can remove that config file if you don't want it.

[Tangle]

On 6/19/2022 at 1:23 PM, HeliosPh0enix said:

I have noticed that several stock liquid fuel engines now only take LH2/Ox, despite still being labeled as "Liquid Fuel Engines."  This includes the Skipper, Rhino, and Mammoth.  They appear to also have updated ISP values to reflect using LH2 as well.  Is there a way to fix this?  I have installed the CryoEnginesNFAero, CryoEnginesNFLV, and CryoEnginesRestock patches, but not the CryoEnginesLFO patch.  I have the full NearFuture/FarFuture suite, but not any conflicting mods like KSPIE.

I've made a patch to add additional LFO-only versions for installs that want to use both types of engines. If not, just delete the CryoEnginesRestock etc patch.

[kwaseksitron123]

On 6/12/2022 at 11:03 AM, alphaprior said:

I found KSP Interstellar Extended to be the problem, once removed tank works as it should but it breaks my game, lots of parts are missing, so my Mun base does not load... I have to see how I'm gonna solve this.

Thanks for driving me to the right direction though.

There is a workaround if you use "Modular Fuel Tanks", then you can use both mods as it seems to override all other fuel switches. It has worked for me at least on 1.12.3

CKAN or Download: 

 

[priles]

Hello everyone, I seem to be having an issue with the mod and I am sure that it is probably something im doing wrong. 

 

I was looking to use the Nerve Engine in the LH2 configuration, but it puts out less Dv than the LF option even though it says it has a higher ISP in LH2 mode.  In LF mode with two tanks I am getting 5,405 Dv while the LH2 is getting 938 Dv. The LH2 has better TWR at 1.46 weighing in at 5,333kg, while the LF is weighing in at 13,313kg with a TWR of 0.46. 

Shouldn't the better TWR, ISP and lighter weight results in the LH2 being a better option? They have the exact same Thrust of 60 KN as well. I'm just not understanding why the LH2 is such a worse choice and seems worse in every metric.  Maybe I have the mod installed wrong? I would be doing much better using the OG Nerve stats of 800isp over the way this mod has this engine setup it seems like. 

The mod is cool and I would love to continue to play with it, but It seems like in some ways I'm handicapping myself when I'm already a crap ship designer. 

[modus]

5 hours ago, priles said:

Hello everyone, I seem to be having an issue with the mod and I am sure that it is probably something im doing wrong. 

 

I was looking to use the Nerve Engine in the LH2 configuration, but it puts out less Dv than the LF option even though it says it has a higher ISP in LH2 mode.  In LF mode with two tanks I am getting 5,405 Dv while the LH2 is getting 938 Dv. The LH2 has better TWR at 1.46 weighing in at 5,333kg, while the LF is weighing in at 13,313kg with a TWR of 0.46. 

Shouldn't the better TWR, ISP and lighter weight results in the LH2 being a better option? They have the exact same Thrust of 60 KN as well. I'm just not understanding why the LH2 is such a worse choice and seems worse in every metric.  Maybe I have the mod installed wrong? I would be doing much better using the OG Nerve stats of 800isp over the way this mod has this engine setup it seems like. 

The mod is cool and I would love to continue to play with it, but It seems like in some ways I'm handicapping myself when I'm already a crap ship designer. 

Are you sure your tank configuration is correct? 

Did you check the Dv in atmosphere or in space?

[Rodger]

6 hours ago, priles said:

Hello everyone, I seem to be having an issue with the mod and I am sure that it is probably something im doing wrong. 

 

I was looking to use the Nerve Engine in the LH2 configuration, but it puts out less Dv than the LF option even though it says it has a higher ISP in LH2 mode.  In LF mode with two tanks I am getting 5,405 Dv while the LH2 is getting 938 Dv. The LH2 has better TWR at 1.46 weighing in at 5,333kg, while the LF is weighing in at 13,313kg with a TWR of 0.46. 

Shouldn't the better TWR, ISP and lighter weight results in the LH2 being a better option? They have the exact same Thrust of 60 KN as well. I'm just not understanding why the LH2 is such a worse choice and seems worse in every metric.  Maybe I have the mod installed wrong? I would be doing much better using the OG Nerve stats of 800isp over the way this mod has this engine setup it seems like. 

It’s basically about trading tank volume for total stage mass. LH2 takes up a lot more volume than LF for the same mass, and isp is based on the mass of the fuel (isp can be thought of as “how long does it take to burn a mass of fuel equal to the engines thrust”, so a higher isp at the same thrust means it will make the fuel last longer). If you have the same *mass* of LH2 as your LF version of the stage, you will get more dV. The other way to take advantage of it is to get a similar total dV compared to LF with a moderately larger tank, but the stage will weigh less, getting more performance out of lower stages.

This post has some good examples https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/122020-1123-bluedog-design-bureau-stockalike-saturn-apollo-and-more-v1103-луна-17june2022/&do=findComment&comment=4151104

Edited July 13, 2022 by Rodger