[1.12.x] Cryogenic Engines: Liquid Hydrogen and Methane Rockets! (Jan 22, 2022)

[rocketman525]

I just got back after a few days of seeing really large trees. The largest Sequoia had a diameter of more than twice of the 5 meter parts.

 

[KeaKaka]

9 hours ago, rocketman525 said:

I just got back after a few days of seeing really large trees. The largest Sequoia had a diameter of more than twice of the 5 meter parts.

 

Uhh... Is this a Cryoengines bug or something else?

Some more information would be helpful.

[rocketman525]

Nothing relavent; jest where I was for 5 days.  

On 6/6/2021 at 7:06 PM, rocketman525 said:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/vrontu8k2k53nff/files.zip/file

Here is the player log and the module manager cache;. 

Did I send it corectly?

[Nertea]

On 6/13/2021 at 12:12 AM, rocketman525 said:

Nothing relavent; jest where I was for 5 days.  

Did I send it corectly?

Your log indicates a huge stack of non-waterfall related errors (mostly tweakscale) but nothing from waterfall itself. My suspicions are that if you resolve those errors, you'll fix the plumes. 

[rocketman525]

2 hours ago, Nertea said:

Your log indicates a huge stack of non-waterfall related errors (mostly tweakscale) but nothing from waterfall itself. My suspicions are that if you resolve those errors, you'll fix the plumes. 

How can I fix those errors, or find out how?

[Zelda]

44 minutes ago, rocketman525 said:

How can I fix those errors, or find out how?

I'd start by asking in the Tweakscale thread. Even if it's not Tweakscale itself that is the problem, if Tweakscale is throwing the error, they should be able to help figure out what is causing it.

[rocketman525]

Ok

 

How  doI find the thered? The link "new release thread" says: "Sorry, there is a problem"

"The page you requested does not exist"

[Spaceman.Spiff]

57 minutes ago, rocketman525 said:

Ok

 

How  doI find the thered? The link "new release thread" says: "Sorry, there is a problem"

"The page you requested does not exist"

Pretty easy to find 

[RP1IsSuperior]

does anyone have a patch to make the stock Skiff run on LH2/Ox, or what balance changes would I might need to make if I do it myself?

[theJesuit]

@Nertea

I am looking to add support for Cyrogenic Engines for Simplex Resources.  In doing so, I'm patching in a new fuel resource 'CryoFuel' to replace LqdMethane and SIMPLEXResources will apply a patch similar to your LFO patch for LH2 to LFO for the Hydrogen Engines.  My patch will proabably apply a '*=0.7 nerf' across the cyroengine range, but I've yet to look at Kerbal Atomics with the same idea.

However, in looking to ensure accurate balancing with the TETRIXTechTree, i've noticed that the CryoEnginesLFO patch for the Fuji engine increases the Key0  atmosphericCurve, giving the engine a thrust in vacuum of over 1000.  All the others have the 70% or so decrease.  Is this intentional or is it a bug/typo?

Peace.

[Nertea]

It's a bug. 

[Tommy99534]

are you able to add a procedural parts config for liquid methane + oxidizer? i've been trying to create my own but i can't figure out how many unitspert of each propellant should be included

[Tommy99534]

okay, i made my own config for methalox procedural tanks, took a while to figure out but i think i've got it. seems to work well enough for me.
 

        TANK_TYPE_OPTION
        {
            name = LqdMethane+Oxidizer
            dryDensity = 0.055
            costMultiplier = 1.398

            RESOURCE
            {
                name = LqdMethane
                unitsPerT = 2727.27
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Oxidizer
                unitsPerT = 909.09
            }
        }
    }

 

[chaos113]

i have encountered a bug where the tanks only cary 1 type of fuel does this mod conflict with any other resource mods

[KeaKaka]

12 hours ago, chaos113 said:

i have encountered a bug where the tanks only cary 1 type of fuel does this mod conflict with any other resource mods

Do you have interstellar fuel switch installed? That can cause problems.

[chaos113]

that must be it then 

[rangerrenze]

Hello, got a quick question. Is there anyway to disable the fuel boil-off off Hydrogen and Methane?

[Rakete]

--- forget about this posting ---

found the cure for "the problem" by myself.... after reading through the part config... unfortunately I can't delete this post my self, so I just wiped the content.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Rakete

[Nyarlathotep-]

You know what would be quite nice? Hydrogen and methane fueled jet engines, could even have a medium independent jet engine or two, essentially they use intake atmosphere, oxidizer, and (insert fuel here), the idea is simply that they are chemically powered jet engines that dont require an oxygenated atmosphere to work, great for Eve, Duna, and Jool

[Starhelperdude]

1 hour ago, Nyarlathotep- said:

You know what would be quite nice? Hydrogen and methane fueled jet engines, could even have a medium independent jet engine or two, essentially they use intake atmosphere, oxidizer, and (insert fuel here), the idea is simply that they are chemically powered jet engines that dont require an oxygenated atmosphere to work, great for Eve, Duna, and Jool

I don't think that putting some random atmospheric gases into a combustion chamber will give a noticable performance boost to an engine

also, there is a 2.5m rapier-like engine in NFA that, with an extra, converts it to use hydrolox

[Nyarlathotep-]

1 hour ago, Starhelperdude said:

I don't think that putting some random atmospheric gases into a combustion chamber will give a noticable performance boost to an engine

also, there is a 2.5m rapier-like engine in NFA that, with an extra, converts it to use hydrolox

Based on what I have read the medium independent jet engine is supposed to have an ISP of as high as 200% greater than a rocket engine, but I dont know if such engines actually would achieve that, as far as use in KSP I'm pretty sure they would be most useful for planes on Eve and Duna in vanilla or other similar modded planets, my main reason for suggesting them is as a chemical alternative to nuclear thermal jet engines, realistic or not.

(medium independent jet engines are also not my idea of course)

[Clamp-o-Tron]

2 hours ago, Starhelperdude said:

I don't think that putting some random atmospheric gases into a combustion chamber will give a noticable performance boost to an engine

In a jet engine, your reaction mass is the atmosphere that’s pulled in through your intakes and expelled due to a pressure differential caused by the burning of jet fuel with atmospheric oxygen.

In this concept, you simply do the same thing but with your own oxidizer- so you can have higher Isp, because you’ve got more reaction mass per kg of propellant spent than a conventional rocket engine.

Anyway, this would be better for the NFT thread, as cryogenic fuels are in no way necessary for the operation of this.

4 hours ago, Nyarlathotep- said:

great for Eve, Duna, and Jool

I would be careful with Eve and Jool

Although there’s nothing wrong with the concept, it works there too, you may have a problem at these higher atmospheric pressures simply due to the much lower chamber pressure than a conventional rocket engine (~800 kPa). The actual exhaust pressure is probably a bit lower, as per the image below (generalizing jet engines).

So you’ll get significantly less thrust as you approach this boundary, less than 8 atm (I’m not doing the specific math lol), eventually getting nothing- just as regular engines do. It’s just that this boundary is a lot lower pressure.

 

(The paper in case anyone worries what we’re talking about: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212540X20300407)

Edited July 19, 2021 by Clamp-o-Tron

[Starhelperdude]

1 hour ago, Nyarlathotep- said:

Based on what I have read the medium independent jet engine is supposed to have an ISP of as high as 200% greater than a rocket engine, but I dont know if such engines actually would achieve that, as far as use in KSP I'm pretty sure they would be most useful for planes on Eve and Duna in vanilla or other similar modded planets, my main reason for suggesting them is as a chemical alternative to nuclear thermal jet engines, realistic or not.

(medium independent jet engines are also not my idea of course)

I'm talking about if they could realistically function, which I highly doubt, not about what you could do with them if they would be in the game

Just now, Clamp-o-Tron said:

In a jet engine, your reaction mass is the atmosphere that’s pulled in through your intakes and expelled due to a pressure differential caused by the burning of jet fuel with atmospheric oxygen.

In this concept, you simply do the same thing but with your own oxidizer- so you can have higher Isp, because you’ve got more reaction mass per kg of propellant spent than a conventional rocket engine.

Anyway, this would be better for the NFT thread, as cryogenic fuels are in no way necessary for the operation of this.

I would be careful with Eve and Jool

Although there’s nothing wrong with the concept, it works there too, you may have a problem at these higher atmospheric pressures simply due to the much lower chamber pressure than a conventional rocket engine (~800 kPa). The actual exhaust pressure is probably a bit lower, as per the image below (generalizing jet engines).

So you’ll get significantly less thrust as you approach this boundary, less than 8 atm (I’m not doing the specific math lol), eventually getting nothing- just as regular engines do. It’s just that this boundary is a lot lower pressure.

 

(The paper in case anyone worries what we’re talking about: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212540X20300407)

ah ok

[Nyarlathotep-]

6 hours ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

In a jet engine, your reaction mass is the atmosphere that’s pulled in through your intakes and expelled due to a pressure differential caused by the burning of jet fuel with atmospheric oxygen.

In this concept, you simply do the same thing but with your own oxidizer- so you can have higher Isp, because you’ve got more reaction mass per kg of propellant spent than a conventional rocket engine.

Anyway, this would be better for the NFT thread, as cryogenic fuels are in no way necessary for the operation of this.

I would be careful with Eve and Jool

Although there’s nothing wrong with the concept, it works there too, you may have a problem at these higher atmospheric pressures simply due to the much lower chamber pressure than a conventional rocket engine (~800 kPa). The actual exhaust pressure is probably a bit lower, as per the image below (generalizing jet engines).

So you’ll get significantly less thrust as you approach this boundary, less than 8 atm (I’m not doing the specific math lol), eventually getting nothing- just as regular engines do. It’s just that this boundary is a lot lower pressure.

 

(The paper in case anyone worries what we’re talking about: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212540X20300407)

Yeah, saying they would be great for Eve and Jool was an exaggeration, its more that it would be one of few (relatively)conventional options, and I suggested them here because I was already suggesting the addition of jet engines that run on cryogenic fuels, so I thought "Why not throw in MI-jets as well?"

[Starhelperdude]

though, as I said, we already have a ''2.5m sabre'' that runs on hydrolox with a patch