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Stealth2668

Career - Going to the mun without fuel lines.

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I'm early in the career and don't yet have fuel lines to allow me to do asparagus staging. Every other mission isn't worth enough science to be a realistic option to unlock more stuff so I have to get there with what I have (very basic parts..). Anyone build a rocket that can reach the mun with basic parts? Either that or a need a little over 100 science to unlock fuel lines and bigger tanks but IDK what other science I can do around Kerbin.

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Enjoy!

SAcnXN1.jpg

The information may be a little dated, but the design should still work.

One flt-800 is the same as 2 flt-400s

Edited by Taki117

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Did you run all of the science experiments yet (in LKO and on Kerbin)? If not there's your 100 science for the full lines.

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Are you trying to land on the mun or just orbit it?

For your first orbit I'd suggest leaving most of the science at home, crew reports and EVA spam can unlock quite a few of the early nodes. And minmus is the same DV away so you can get even more by going there second (or even first)

A small rocket with just a 909 on the upper stage and a T30 on the lower should be able to orbit the mun at about 12T launch mass. Not at my computer, but I think I used 600 units of fuel on the upper stage and 1200 on the booster stage. (The same design with a T45 on the upper stage should work for a flyby, maybe an orbit if you are efficient with your ascent). This gives a bit over 5k DV, 3500 to orbit, 900 to fly by, 250 for orbit and another 250 to escape, and a couple hundred to set up aerocapture.

Fins on the booster stage are helpful but not necessary. Don't put fins on the upper stage, you should be in pretty light atmosphere by the time you stage and then they're dead weight.

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If you upgraded R&D you can transfer fuel manually. Make sure you keep the balance.

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I haven't launched a mun lander yet in 1.0, but you can put up a mun orbiter fine without anything like asparagus. A couple laterally-mounted BACC boosters and simple stack (with 909s in upper stages) is more than adequate.

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Well I've done the LKO goo sample and science bay experiments as well as the crew and eva reports but I'm not sure what else I can do. I suppose the HKO experiments but I think I'll still be short. I don't have the 909 engine, just the starter (T45?) as well as the gimbal variant. I plan on just flying by the mun/minmus until I unlock more stuff to make it easier. The main issue is that my rocket ends up being so tall that it wobbles like crazy when I try to stack enough fuel to even attempt a mun transfer, and even then I haven't been able to orbit with it due to the wobble messing me up but I'm pretty sure it's not even enough. Going taller isn't an option and without asparagus it seems like going wider isn't feasible either :(

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Well I've done the LKO goo sample and science bay experiments as well as the crew and eva reports but I'm not sure what else I can do. I suppose the HKO experiments but I think I'll still be short. I don't have the 909 engine, just the starter (T45?) as well as the gimbal variant. I plan on just flying by the mun/minmus until I unlock more stuff to make it easier. The main issue is that my rocket ends up being so tall that it wobbles like crazy when I try to stack enough fuel to even attempt a mun transfer, and even then I haven't been able to orbit with it due to the wobble messing me up but I'm pretty sure it's not even enough. Going taller isn't an option and without asparagus it seems like going wider isn't feasible either :(

You can do a different EVA report over every biome: Water, shores, grasslands, highlands, mountians, tundra, poles, badlands, desert (I think that is all of them). You can get most of those from an equatorial orbit and each of those is worth new science.

You can also run materials bay, goo, crew report, and EVA report from high orbit (though you won't get biome specific data for the biomes below you). To get to high orbit be above 250km.

Also keep in mind that for experiments like Goo and Materials Bay you may be able to re-run experiments for more science (though less than the initial run).

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You can get enough science from a flyby or two to unlock the 909. If you don't need to orbit, my design above should be able to bring a goo and a lab (and thermometer if you have it). Centre the goo in a service bay, don't bring 2 of anything, just use a scientist to reset. You can grab Kerbin high and mun high and low on both goo and lab, which should net you a couple of nodes.

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Not sure how either moon ship will work in 1.0 May need to use the LV-909 in place of the 48-S given how it has now been degraded in performance.

Kcv4kGj.jpg

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I have two crafts, both built very early on, for the purpose of going to Mun:

Apollo 8: Not enough Delta V to land (I think, maybe you can pull it off), but it can get into orbit there and back.

Apollo 11: Landed and got back safely.

If anyone wants me to upload them, let me know, and I'll fire up KSP and strip off the Kerbal Engineer part and share it. I won't bother unless anyone's interested.

I cannot remember the tech level in use, but I know that I didn't have proper landing gear (only the first flimsy ones) and FLT800 tanks (The latter of which I compensate for with smaller ones in stack... it makes it wobbly, but doable).

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Easy fix for no asparagus, make sets of nacelles with different amounts of fuel, and drop em as they run out. I find this actually works better since i don't need nearly as much thrust anyway as my weight drops and I'm not dragging deadweight around with my engines throttles down below 50% (this may not be as applicable with the frustratingly vague new aerodynamics rules, but it worked fine for my first mun landing).

This was my first Mun lander (you don't need the second stage of boosters I was being silly and forgot I could lower the TWR by putting in thrust limiter, those mid sized SRBs were too strong). The one thing with this design is it can be hard to control depending on the payload. This right here worked fine, when I dropped my lander mass for minimus I suddenly had issues after the short stacks dropped due to the center of mass being too far back. TWR is still a hair over 2 once the side engines drop.

rdzhAYA.jpg

Edited by Requia

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Not sure how either moon ship will work in 1.0 May need to use the LV-909 in place of the 48-S given how it has now been degraded in performance.

http://i.imgur.com/Kcv4kGj.jpg

There's lots of parts there that I don't have :(

- - - Updated - - -

Easy fix for no asparagus, make sets of nacelles with different amounts of fuel, and drop em as they run out. I find this actually works better since i don't need nearly as much thrust anyway as my weight drops and I'm not dragging deadweight around with my engines throttles down below 50% (this may not be as applicable with the frustratingly vague new aerodynamics rules, but it worked fine for my first mun landing).

This was my first Mun lander (you don't need the second stage of boosters I was being silly and forgot I could lower the TWR by putting in thrust limiter, those mid sized SRBs were too strong). The one thing with this design is it can be hard to control depending on the payload. This right here worked fine, when I dropped my lander mass for minimus I suddenly had issues after the short stacks dropped due to the center of mass being too far back. TWR is still a hair over 2 once the side engines drop.

http://i.imgur.com/rdzhAYA.jpg

Looks like I can put something like that together. I'll try to get as much science as I can around kerbin with my simple rocket first and if that's not enough I'll steal that design and try for a mun fly-by.

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Well I've done the LKO goo sample and science bay experiments as well as the crew and eva reports but I'm not sure what else I can do. I suppose the HKO experiments but I think I'll still be short. I don't have the 909 engine, just the starter (T45?) as well as the gimbal variant. I plan on just flying by the mun/minmus until I unlock more stuff to make it easier. The main issue is that my rocket ends up being so tall that it wobbles like crazy when I try to stack enough fuel to even attempt a mun transfer, and even then I haven't been able to orbit with it due to the wobble messing me up but I'm pretty sure it's not even enough. Going taller isn't an option and without asparagus it seems like going wider isn't feasible either :(

To counter wobble, if SAS isn't good enough, tail fins can work wonders. Unless it's structural wobble you're getting?

For width, asparagus is definitely not required. Just sticking either solid or liquid fuel boosters on to the sides of your rocket is perfectly viable, if not as efficient. Preferably with a radial decoupler of course. A pair of radial BACC boosters makes a very useful first stage.

For science, do you have the upgraded buildings for surface sampling? You can get a good chunk of science out of Kerbin surface samples (along with the obvious landed crew reports and landed+flying EVA reports). And of course the full orbital EVA collection is a big chunk of science.

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To counter wobble, if SAS isn't good enough, tail fins can work wonders. Unless it's structural wobble you're getting?

For width, asparagus is definitely not required. Just sticking either solid or liquid fuel boosters on to the sides of your rocket is perfectly viable, if not as efficient. Preferably with a radial decoupler of course. A pair of radial BACC boosters makes a very useful first stage.

For science, do you have the upgraded buildings for surface sampling? You can get a good chunk of science out of Kerbin surface samples (along with the obvious landed crew reports and landed+flying EVA reports). And of course the full orbital EVA collection is a big chunk of science.

Ya it's structural wobble due to the length. Which building(s) have to be upgraded to do surface samples?

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Ya it's structural wobble due to the length.

How long is it? My design for a Mun orbiter only runs about six FL400s, plus two BACCs on the sides. Though it does have the benefit of 909s.

Which building(s) have to be upgraded to do surface samples?

Definitely the research center. Probably also the astronaut facility, I've never gotten the research center without having the astronaut facility first.

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There's lots of parts there that I don't have

It's an older version design where much of the 90 science tier has been unlocked.

Design your first lander without the Material Bay. That will help with stability for landing. A good design will allow you to use the orbital insertion stage for descent for most of landing. What touches down is the pod, parachute, heat shield, 2 Goo cansters, a mostly full fuel can, LV909 and lander legs. Better yet, do a simple three stage for the fly by, a third stage with a bit more fuel for orbital insertion and return, and the bigger four stage one for landing and return.

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How long is it? My design for a Mun orbiter only runs about six FL400s, plus two BACCs on the sides. Though it does have the benefit of 909s.

Definitely the research center. Probably also the astronaut facility, I've never gotten the research center without having the astronaut facility first.

It's 12 FL200's, two engines and a science bay. 25.9m according to the stats in the VAB

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