micha

[1.4.x - 1.7.x] Nehemia Engineering Orbital Science Mods (NEOS - Micha's build) (0.8.1)

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If it helps, the old code using KAS required the experiments to be in one of the experiment containers. Having the finalized experiment in a KAS box or other part that had KAS storage would not trigger completion. With your update it doesn't seem to recognize the completed experiments no matter if they are in a experiment return part or any other KIS inventory.

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My problem is similar to others mentiond before me...

VAB > Click inventory on Pod. Drag/Drop one PEC, one Experiment. Add a Scientist. Launch to orbit.

EVA > Open inventory on Pod (not there). Open Scientist inventory. Press # corresponding to the PEC. Attach to Pod (srfAttach). Appears Surface Attached.

EVA > Press # corresponding to the experiment. Attach to PEC (Mount). Appears Mounted to PEC, PEC still Surface Attached to Pod. Board Pod.

IVA > No r-click menu for the experiment or pec, and shows as debris.

EVA > PEC appears attached and experiment mounted. R-Click menu appears as expected. Run experiment. Board Pod.

IVA > Wait. Done. EVA.

EVA > Open inventory. Hold 'G' and drag experiment to inventory. Appears on Kerb's back. Can't move it to inventory. Board Pod.

IVA > 1.) Experiment is still in location where it was mounted to kerb's back, floating freely. 2.) Cloned Kerb still holding onto pod, and Kerb in Pod.

Tracking Station > Kerb in orbit at location of ship. Ship info shows same Kerb in orbit and in Pod.

I am assuming EVA/IVA'ing with inventory open or items on your back causes the cloning of Kerbs.

I am assuming, the Pod Inventory is big enough, but not working for KEES.

I think the Pod(seat) Inventory becomes the kerbs inventory, and the pod looses this storage one it is launched. There is no owner until a kerb is assigned. In that thought, if the seat has x#KIS room, why does the kerbal not have the same on EVA. If the PEC and Exp. fit, why do they not fit back into Kerb inventory.

Or is it a bug, that it stays carried by Kerb and not going into the KIS as it should?

These were original placed at the beginning of the tree. They were designed to be run erly game. The 'tools' for engineers to mount things and 2+ Kerb pods are not 'early game'. Consider adding a magnetic base or something to the PEC or disable the tools requirement to surface attach. This would bring it back inline to what it was before. As it was before, early-game Scientist could run these. Now it requires mid game tree-nodes and an engineer to be able to do these.

Edited by Shaggygoblin

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If it helps, the old code using KAS required the experiments to be in one of the experiment containers. Having the finalized experiment in a KAS box or other part that had KAS storage would not trigger completion. With your update it doesn't seem to recognize the completed experiments no matter if they are in a experiment return part or any other KIS inventory.

I think I figured it out and made a new release; appears to work (but I should have gone to bed 3.5 hours ago... so it's not tested exhaustively!). KEES experiments -should- now be able to be returned inside any ModuleKISInventory container, including the KEES PC.

- - - Updated - - -

These were original placed at the beginning of the tree. They were designed to be run erly game. The 'tools' for engineers to mount things and 2+ Kerb pods are not 'early game'. Consider adding a magnetic base or something to the PEC or disable the tools requirement to surface attach. This would bring it back inline to what it was before. As it was before, early-game Scientist could run these. Now it requires mid game tree-nodes and an engineer to be able to do these.

Ok, I just made a new release, and the KEES items are now standard KIS inventory items - too many issues with KIS "carry" items (most of what you reported I had also encountered).

KIS currently does not support non-tool surface attachment. However, this is in the works. As soon as KIS allows this, I will change it to not require tools. Whether or not Nehemia will require an Engineer to mount the PEC or not is up to him in his official release.

OTOH, you don't need a Scientist to run these experiments, you can just use an Engineer, so a 1-Kerbal pod is still doable.

Also, I recommend using the K2 pod in conjunction with this mod, and moving it to "Flight Control" (it's in "Advanced Flight Control" by default).

Edited by micha
Added links

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In the last update, you added a ModuleKISItem MODULE{} for the KEES parts in order to set "volumeOverride = 180". However, you didn't set the usableFromEva parameter to FALSE. Despite the Wiki, I believe the default is TRUE. Therefore, the KEES parts are appearing in the KIS EVA menu in the VAB. Do you really want that? Probably not. The capsule inventory for each kerbal is only 300L. Therefore, only one KEES part at 180L can fit.

For my own gameplay, I removed the ModuleKISItem MODULE definition. As previously mentioned, I also set the KEES Payload Carriers to 220L and only two slots: one for the experiment carrier and one for the experiment.

Edited by Apollo13

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I really don't know too much about how KIS works yet - experimenting as I go :) While there is some documentation, it's not comprehensive, and I haven't followed the KIS development, so a lot of what's in the documentation may appear obvious to people who know what it means, but for someone who hasn't been able to invest much time so far it's a learning curve.

I know how you did it, but I wanted to restrict Kerbals to carry only one KEES item at a time, as was the case before with KAS. I achieved this by using the VolumeOverride (as carriable caused too many issues, and didn't actually restrict a Kerbal from carrying multiple items anyway), and this way it also restricts the KEES PC to only being able to carry 2 KEES parts (and a couple of minor things such as a wrench or so), while not making it unrealistically small compared to other KIS containers.

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Really nice mod/s from Nehemiah. Nice to see that Micha take care of them.

I get the 'Do POSA I in Kerbal orbit', i launch, attach parts, do experiment, return parts to storage and deorbit and land. I get the science but the contract line 'return and recover experiment at kerbin' is still incomplete.

Tried that same contract 5 times over the weekend, same result. Contract still not marked as finished.

Any ideas?

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One thing to add, since you're bringing this up to date for KSP 1.0: the new version adds a "sort by cross-section" feature, and to take full advantage of it, a part should include a line like "bulkheadProfiles = size1, srf" to indicate what cross sections it falls under. More details over here. Thanks!

Edit: You know what, since you've got all the configs up on GitHub, why don't I define them all and make a pull request? Give me a day and I'll have something for you.

Edited by Kerbas_ad_astra

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Tried that same contract 5 times over the weekend, same result. Contract still not marked as finished.

Any ideas?

Hmm, are you running the latest alpha builds (mw3)? Thought I had these fixed..

If you could attach detailed repro-steps and a log of when this happens that'd be great.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing to add, since you're bringing this up to date for KSP 1.0: the new version adds a "sort by cross-section" feature, and to take full advantage of it, a part should include a line like "bulkheadProfiles = size1, srf" to indicate what cross sections it falls under. More details over here. Thanks!

Edit: You know what, since you've got all the configs up on GitHub, why don't I define them all and make a pull request? Give me a day and I'll have something for you.

That'd be great! Although I did add the bulkheadProfiles parameter to some of the parts; probably not all of them though.

Furthermore, I must apologise, but I'm also going to be away for the next 2 weeks (motorbike tour around Europe, mostly Poland - never been there before), so hopefully the mod is (mostly) playable as is. In the meantime, any further bug reports / improvements, please do add them to this thread, where either myself or Nehemia will pick them up, whoever is back first!

Cheers!

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That'd be great! Although I did add the bulkheadProfiles parameter to some of the parts; probably not all of them though.

Furthermore, I must apologise, but I'm also going to be away for the next 2 weeks (motorbike tour around Europe, mostly Poland - never been there before), so hopefully the mod is (mostly) playable as is. In the meantime, any further bug reports / improvements, please do add them to this thread, where either myself or Nehemia will pick them up, whoever is back first!

Cheers!

Well, I'm a goofus. The parts I saw that didn't have bulkhead profiles aren't supposed to have them, since they're internal experiments or something. The buildable parts are just fine!

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So when I attach the PEC to a pod it appears to anchor in space rather than the pod. I can attach a KEES experiment and start it without a problem. Oddly, it follows the orbit the pod was on at the time I "attached" it, but as another person said it shows up as debris. I tried what Shaggygoblin did but I think I'm missing a config setting for KIS or KAS. Can someone step me through what appears to work for attaching, running, and retrieving these or are they just not working properly right now? If not that's fine, I'm just happy to have any of these mods working for 1.0+ :)

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New release uploaded (see post #1) compiled against KSP 1.04 and KIS 1.15.

Not entirely sure it's necessary, but I had a situation where KEES contracts did not complete when the vessel was recovered. So if you run into this, you may want to try the new release.

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New release uploaded (see post #1) compiled against KSP 1.04 and KIS 1.15.

Not entirely sure it's necessary, but I had a situation where KEES contracts did not complete when the vessel was recovered. So if you run into this, you may want to try the new release.

Thankyou so much for have a look at this mod whilst N3h3mia is away! Can't seem to get this working. I wanted to try it out in career mode in a very heavily modded game. Just to see what happens. Some thoughts on this below. Either I have

1. Been stupid and installed it incorrectly :blush:. I put Alpha pack folder in gamedata. it contains the N3h3miainc folder. I did this to clearly label this mod with your folder name. Is that ok?

2. I have SETI version of community tech tree which has different nodes. The parts unlock at different stages. Where are the parts on this?

3. This has been added in to an early career. If the tech unlocks early it might be better if I start the tech tree from start?

Right now my money is on 1 but is good to know your opinion on dropping this into a game with different science nodes.

EDIT : I was right option 1 was correct. Fixed the issue. Left your alpha folder in place empty as well. Since I felt in would help me with version tracking later on. So far it will unlock in Advanced Exploration. With 3D printing coming under Precision Engineering. For the early tech career Basic Science has the KEES experiments. Which I will be trying out today. Hopefully the payload carrier will work as I can't get larger a KIS container this big until much later on.

Edited by nobodyhasthis
Fixed the issue

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Well ran into the first little hiccup for my space program. I believe there is support for capsules from K2, Tantares and HGR. Including the full FASA Gemini version?

Trouble is I am using the Corvus. An absolutely adorable kerbal version of Gemini. More about it here http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/121062-1-0-2-Corvus-Size-1-two-Kerbal-command-pod(Version-1-1-1). Any chance of adding support for it?

Currently in my tech tree in means that the mercury style stock Mk1 pod will have to do all the basic internally mounted experiments. All good. It still works but I do miss using the Corvus.

Edited by nobodyhasthis

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You can do this yourself.

Go to Gamedate/NehemiahInc/Kemini

Copy one of the .cfg and rename it like MM_Corvus.cfg.

Open this file. Change the Partname. Ready.

//---------------------------------- Corvus Pod ------------------------

@PART[Corvus_Exterior]

{

MODULE

{

name = Kemini_Module

abbreviation = Gemini Science experiment

minimumCrew = 1

EquipmentSlot

{

NE_LabEquipmentSlot

{

type = KEMINI

}

}

}

MODULE

{

name = ExperimentStorage

identifier = Kemini 1

chanceTexture = false

type = KEMINI

}

MODULE

{

name = ExperimentStorage

identifier = Kemini 2

chanceTexture = false

type = KEMINI

}

}

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You can do this yourself.

Go to Gamedate/NehemiahInc/Kemini

Copy one of the .cfg and rename it like MM_Corvus.cfg.

Open this file. Change the Partname. Ready.

Brilliant! Thank you for helping out with this.

So far all good news but some instructions required.

So, for the life of me, I can't figure out how to transfer the science from the experiment to the capsule so I can get the science for it... It is driving me insane. It's the only science part that I can't get to do it. So I take the parts up in the container, attatch on EVA, and run the experiment. But when I go to grab the science, it doesn't even give me an option to "collect data" or whatever. I just have to store it, and deal with it getting incinerated on re-entry or transmit the data for 20% of the science earned. Which at that point isn't worth it. I tend to go with a more realistic approach to my career modes, so I'm not returning to Kerbin with the experiments. Just the science... So until I can "take data", or whatever, this mod is basically useless to me....

Just for clarification. An engineer is only required to mount the attachment bracket in EVA. Using an equipped wench (or electric screw driver). After than any kerbal can mount an experimental onto the bracket without tools. Even Jeb can do this. This is covered in the KIS manual. Got to love the KIS documentation as it appears inside KSP as a readable KIS item. Which is amazing. Once the experiment is run and finalized. You do not collect data. This is a material sample experiment and must be examined on Kerbin to get any science points. Any Kerbal can EVA and pick up the experimental tray. Use the G key to grab it off the bracket. It must then be stowed back into the original stowage container. Mousing over the item when back in the stowage will show that it still contains data once moved. Land back on Kerbin and the final mission debrief screen will show your science reward.

As far as I know removing the mounting bracket is optional. On a space station leave it in place for future missions. On spacecraft it will of course snap off harmlessly on reentry. An engineer can save you some bucks removing it and stowing it alongside the experiments for the return journey.

So far. So good. Right now the only snag I can see is that the KEES contracts might still need some work. I think that they don't clear when the experiment is returned. Need to confirm this for sure. If your using Contract Configure by Nightingale perhaps he can help here. I have seen his Field Science contracts plugin generate a mission to do a Kemini experiment for funds only. This represents hiring out the payload space to an external corporation to do some private R&D in. That mission completed just fine.

EDIT: Could be a version goof on my part. Running with whole pack version. NehemiahIncSciencePack_0.2_alpha_mw-2. I think the standalone version has been updated. Should I use the KEES_0.3_alpha_mw-4 to overwrite it and test again?

Edited by nobodyhasthis

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Hi Micha,

in your work to update the mod have you come across the issue of the loaded experiment containers to cause stuttering of the game?

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EDIT: Could be a version goof on my part. Running with whole pack version. NehemiahIncSciencePack_0.2_alpha_mw-2. I think the standalone version has been updated. Should I use the KEES_0.3_alpha_mw-4 to overwrite it and test again?

I had the same issue; hence the latest recompile. It -may- have just been fixed due to the recompile (mw-4). I also made a very minor tweak to the way the KEES experiment logic works on vessel recovery, which may also have fixed it. Regardless, it Works For Me (famous last words!)

And yes, you can just extract the KEES download over the top of your install; make sure the dll is overwritten.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Micha,

in your work to update the mod have you come across the issue of the loaded experiment containers to cause stuttering of the game?

I haven't seen this myself recently (but haven't progressed to use them yet in my 1.0.4 save) - but there were reports of experiment containers causing slowdown many moons ago.

Could you please add some info; ie, which containers (or all of them), which situations where the slowdown occurs (ie, on their own, docked/connected to the lab modules, on the launchpad, in orbit, ...?) and which, if any, experiments loaded into them?

Thanks!

- - - Updated - - -

For the early tech career Basic Science has the KEES experiments. Which I will be trying out today. Hopefully the payload carrier will work as I can't get larger a KIS container this big until much later on.

Hey nobodyhasthis;

sorry for not replying earlier - for some reason the thread isn't notifying me.

Anyway glad to see you got it working.

As for the KEES experiments, you know that each Seat (ie, Kerbal) in a capsule has a KIS inventory as well, right? You can store KEES experiments and the KEES PEC in the Seats, although only 1 item per seat, so you'll need a 2-Kerbal capsule or rendezvous with something already in orbit.

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As for the KEES experiments, you know that each Seat (ie, Kerbal) in a capsule has a KIS inventory as well, right? You can store KEES experiments and the KEES PEC in the Seats, although only 1 item per seat, so you'll need a 2-Kerbal capsule or rendezvous with something already in orbit.
You can indeed do this but it may lead to a bug which KIS related. Having a backpack when entering the pod can cause a Kerbal duplication bug. When a Kerbal appears inside and still outside the pod. I have also had case where the backpack is left behind. It is rare bug and does not always show up. As a result I just avoid it by putting back pack mounted items into their own storage.

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It is rare bug and does not always show up. As a result I just avoid it by putting back pack mounted items into their own storage.

KEES items are no longer backpack items (caused too many issues). I know this is a departure from how the mod was written but it's a decision which Nehemia will have to make when he's back; in the meantime, and based on how other mods converted from KAS to KIS, I think it's a valid change.

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KEES items are no longer backpack items (caused too many issues). I know this is a departure from how the mod was written but it's a decision which Nehemia will have to make when he's back; in the meantime, and based on how other mods converted from KAS to KIS, I think it's a valid change.
It does cause problems and you are right to change it. This seems to be best solution and KIS seems more stable this way.

Will Have to try using the pod stowage as suggested to test things. Long term out of sheer love the mod and a role playing decision. I will probably be sticking with the proper stowage container. It looks like a more realistic way to carry the experiments.

Now here is a bit of a noob question for you :blush:. How do I download and install the absolutely most up to date recompile?

Should I ignore the whole science pack and just down load the individual parts or got for the single down load and copy over the top?

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Now here is a bit of a noob question for you :blush:. How do I download and install the absolutely most up to date recompile?

Should I ignore the whole science pack and just down load the individual parts or got for the single down load and copy over the top?

Since I play with all the mods I just use the full pack. The individual downloads are for people who only want to use some of the mods. Or for people who have slow/limited internet connections if only a single mod requires updating as was the case in the latest update.

All the individual mods have the DLL as part of the download, which is common across all the mods. Each mod-pack then only contains the common bits and the experiments/models specific for that mod.

However; I just saw that the "Science Pack" is mw2; I think I accidentally uploaded the wrong one! *oops* Let me double-check.

EDIT: Fixed. Huge apologies to anyone who downloaded that and has had problems in the meantime.

If you downloaded "NehemiahIncSciencePack_0.2_alpha_mw-2.zip" (now deleted from the release) you must re-download the actual new version which is "NehemiahIncSciencePack_0.2_alpha_mw-4.zip".

Edited by micha

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Thanks for the fixes and the recompile. I'm going to play with this in my next career restart :P

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Since I play with all the mods I just use the full pack. The individual downloads are for people who only want to use some of the mods. Or for people who have slow/limited internet connections if only a single mod requires updating as was the case in the latest update.

All the individual mods have the DLL as part of the download, which is common across all the mods. Each mod-pack then only contains the common bits and the experiments/models specific for that mod.

However; I just saw that the "Science Pack" is mw2; I think I accidentally uploaded the wrong one! *oops* Let me double-check.

EDIT: Fixed. Huge apologies to anyone who downloaded that and has had problems in the meantime.

If you downloaded "NehemiahIncSciencePack_0.2_alpha_mw-2.zip" (now deleted from the release) you must re-download the actual new version which is "NehemiahIncSciencePack_0.2_alpha_mw-4.zip".

Yes indeed. Noticed that there might be a problem there. So thought that I would ask the "noob" question about install options. I just could not understand the different version numbering and there is no such thing as silly question in debugging experimental builds. Turns out by going for the separate packs I was running version mw-4 of the whole mod. All when well. Did not spot any bugs. However did not test the later experiments on top of "Station Science" builds but everything I did use was working just fine.

Only minor snags caused by the "For Science!" mod which moves experiment data. I disable this when carrying Nehemiah experiments and everything is fine.

Now starting again on new career. Running with new version of KIS installed and the complete pack option. This is a completely different build with a different set of mods. Will let you know if I run into snags. So far a great mod update.

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