Docking contract terms?

[kurja]

I accepted a contract to dock two crafts in kerbin orbit, but the terms are unclear to me. I just launched an 'apollo style' mun ship that requires separating and then docking the lander & transfer ships in orbit, but the contract didn't get completed. Does it require that the crafts be launched separately or what?? Or should I first move the crafts some distance away from each other or something..?

Edited May 16, 2015 by kurja

[Taki117]

I have not had this type of contract, but a good idea is to just launch two separate ships, or more accurately launch the same ship twice.

You could also take a look at the notes in the contract (After you have accepted the conract) that might provide more insight.

[Anquietas314]

Launching two separate craft worked for me for this one. I'm not sure if that's strictly necessary though

[kurja]

Well the announced objectives aren't exactly clear, it just says "Attach two different vessels together near Kerbin with a docking port or a claw to achieve this goal".

- - - Updated - - -

Tried to separate the two a little further, 120 meters or so and docking again.. didn't help. Guess the crafts have to be from separate launches :/

[Anquietas314]

Tried to separate the two a little further, 120 meters or so and docking again.. didn't help. Guess the crafts have to be from separate launches :/

Maybe try going beyond physics range? (used to be 2.5km, not sure if it still is while in orbit)

[Arsonide]

Well the announced objectives aren't exactly clear, it just says "Attach two different vessels together near Kerbin with a docking port or a claw to achieve this goal".

"Two different vessels" is pretty clear. If the vessels were part of the same launch, it won't work.

[Anquietas314]

"Two different vessels" is pretty clear. If the vessels were part of the same launch, it won't work.

Technically two vessels that were part of the same launch vehicle (but are now separate) are two different vessels... maybe "two separately launched vessels" would make it clearer? Or have "rendezvous in orbit" be a parameter of the contract?

[kurja]

"Two different vessels" is pretty clear. If the vessels were part of the same launch, it won't work.

The other is a transfer stage and the other is a lander, they're very much "different vessels"

[sal_vager]

Sub components of the same vessel you mean, for example a Saturn V is one vessel, despite being comprised of a CSM, LM and assorted stages.

[Anquietas314]

Sub components of the same vessel you mean

I'm not sure it's fair to call them components of a vessel if they're no longer physically attached (and can operate independently)

[Feradose]

Anyone tested going out of physics sphere then coming back and docking yet?

[Tarheel1999]

I'm not sure it's fair to call them components of a vessel if they're no longer physically attached (and can operate independently)

Totally fair if you take into consideration how the KSP save file/persistence system works. For example, launchers with probes become "vessel name probe" after separation. I assuming "the two different vessels" requirement expects you to conduct a proper rendezvous.

[Anquietas314]

For example, launchers with probes become "vessel name probe" after separation.

As far as I'm aware, the game still considers them completely separate vessels. For example, here's the first part of some debris from one of my early Mun missions in my current save that got left in orbit:

{
pid = 44c7b7ead567491dab543feb564b4658
name = Mun II Debris
type = Debris
sit = ORBITING
landed = False
landedAt =
splashed = False
met = 275.540820350987
lct = 514090.992717634
root = 0
lat = 8.12340198033437
lon = 209.647462398868
alt = 259791.398550067
hgt = -1
nrm = -0.1806847,-0.02627669,-0.9831901
rot = 0.5436394,-0.04851984,0.8256953,-0.1425819
CoM = -7.538364E-05,-2.940127,1.434786E-05
stg = 3
prst = False
ref = 0
ctrl = False
cPch = 0
cHdg = 0
cMod = -1
ORBIT
{

		VESSEL

I'm by no means an expert in the file format, but I don't see anything that would connect it to its original launch vehicle.

As for the name... well it has to call them something; would you rather it pops up the rename window every single time a bit of your rocket falls off or you decouple part of it?

[Torham234]

Hmm, worked for me with 2 separate launches. I was in the process of assembling my Mun science station, and this contract came up. It was basically free cash that paid for my transfer module to be put into orbit. Nice of them.

[jeancallisti]

Well, the question here is not if two probes that were once carried by the same vessel, are now "two different vessels" or "two parts of the same vessel".

The question is "Are the terms of this contract clear?".

The fact that this whole thread exists proves that they're not. Therefore the contract should be rephrased, as someone suggested, to "two separately launched vessels".

 

 

Edited May 21, 2016 by jeancallisti

[Plusck]

On 03/05/2015 at 4:15 PM, Anquietas314 said:

As far as I'm aware, the game still considers them completely separate vessels. For example, here's the first part of some debris from one of my early Mun missions in my current save that got left in orbit:

 

{
pid = 44c7b7ead567491dab543feb564b4658
name = Mun II Debris
type = Debris
sit = ORBITING
landed = False
landedAt =
splashed = False
met = 275.540820350987
lct = 514090.992717634
root = 0
lat = 8.12340198033437
lon = 209.647462398868
alt = 259791.398550067
hgt = -1
nrm = -0.1806847,-0.02627669,-0.9831901
rot = 0.5436394,-0.04851984,0.8256953,-0.1425819
CoM = -7.538364E-05,-2.940127,1.434786E-05
stg = 3
prst = False
ref = 0
ctrl = False
cPch = 0
cHdg = 0
cMod = -1
ORBIT
{

		VESSEL

 

I'm by no means an expert in the file format, but I don't see anything that would connect it to its original launch vehicle.

As for the name... well it has to call them something; would you rather it pops up the rename window every single time a bit of your rocket falls off or you decouple part of it?

Every part has a "launchID = " value.

When you accept a contract for a "new" base or contract, it includes a "launchID" parameter.

So it seems the game uses launchID to determine whether a vessel is new or not, and whether the parts were originally from the same vessel or not.

Sure, if you land your lander and then make orbit again and redock, then by rights you should consider that you have completed the terms of your contract, but it's understandable that the game looks for something unique in the vessel identification, so it's not entirely surprising that merely separating a ship and putting it back together again won't work.

[Reactordrone]

4 hours ago, jeancallisti said:

Well, the question here is not if two probes that were once carried by the same vessel, are now "two different vessels" or "two parts of the same vessel".

The question is "Are the terms of this contract clear?".

The fact that this whole thread exists proves that they're not. Therefore the contract should be rephrased, as someone suggested, to "two separately launched vessels".

 

 

Well unless someone's had an issue with this type of contract since they were revised for 1.1 it's something of a moot point.

[jeancallisti]

11 hours ago, Reactordrone said:

Well unless someone's had an issue with this type of contract since they were revised for 1.1 it's something of a moot point.

I'm here because I had this issue in 1.2. It's only one word to change in some obscure game data file to avoid long useless discussions and game frustration.

Edited May 22, 2016 by jeancallisti

[EstebanLB]

I tested this in 1.2.2, I got a contract to dock two vessels on or above (near) Minmus. I undocked the lander from a near orbit, and then after takeoff I docked again with the main ship , the mission didn't recognize that docking.

Perhaps it's true that it needs to be from two separate launches and the description MUST state so, like it does for other kind of contracts.

I made an overly complex vessel just to fulfill this part of the contract, I really don't need a lander and a main ship to be two different vessels for Minmus

[Spricigo]

11 hours ago, EstebanLB said:

Perhaps it's true that it needs to be from two separate launches...

Yes it needs to be two separate launches, and its intended to be that way. Otherwise you would just skip one launch and the rendezvous  that are supposed to be performed.

Quote

...and the description MUST state so, like it does for other kind of contracts....

Agreed, it must be clear. However I had a contract like that a few days ago and I think the description stated it. Not in actual goals list but in the "fine print" mind you. Also, since I was aware of the need of two launches, I suppose it may just be a false memory.

Quote

I made an overly complex vessel just to fulfill this part of the contract, I really don't need a lander and a main ship to be two different vessels for Minmus

 

Now just notice that maybe you made the confusion. The contract asked for docking two vessels and you made an vessel.

Sure, we may expect the contract to accept it since we actually faced all the difficulties of the problem but I suppose the game don’t keep track of enough info to differentiate it from just undocking and redocking without being apart more than a few inches for a few seconds.  In any case we may consider it good enough to be fair to complete the contract in the debug menu.

 

 

[EstebanLB]

 

On 1/2/2017 at 3:11 PM, Spricigo said:

In any case we may consider it good enough to be fair to complete the contract in the debug menu.

How do I do that?

[Spricigo]

to complete a contract via debug menu:

[mod]+[F12]

contracts tab

select contract

check complete

 

...or something like that (been a while I had seen)

[Neilski]

Argh.

I'm here because I can confirm that this bug still exists in 1.8.1.
I'm intentionally calling it a bug because I reckon it's a mistake in the description. It doesn't state that the two craft may not be part of the same launch.

Has anyone actually reported this as a bug in need of fixing?

[Snark]

5 hours ago, Neilski said:

I'm here because I can confirm that this bug still exists in 1.8.1.

It's not a bug, it's by design:  for docking the craft to "count", they must come from separate launches.  I assume they deliberately did it that way so that the player has to be able to do an orbital rendezvous.  Otherwise, a player could just launch one vessel with a couple of docking ports, get to orbit, separate and immediately re-dock, thus evading the challenge. 

Since it's by design and not a bug, I wouldn't expect them to ever change this.

In any case, though, this thread is from years ago, so the folks involved have presumably long since moved on and further discussion here is likely moot.  Accordingly, locking the thread to prevent further confusion.  If by any chance you've found what seems to you to be an actual bug, i.e. something that's not intended behavior, then feel free to spin up a thread in the technical support forum to see if any info is available.