Sign in to follow this  
mjl1966

career from dead zero now very difficult

Recommended Posts

yeah, i think there will be many who give up on the first day. one reason: rockets all but impossible to control. in previous versions, it would wobble around a lot, but i could at least get it into space. new reaction wheel can only turn the smallest of rockets and i have yet to succesfully turn one past 45 without it tumbling out of control.. i'm very experienced with ksp and i'm pretty frstrated. if i was new, i would wonder what all the fuss is about because this is not fun.

"improving" the atmosphere was a nice idea, but i think it might be time t re-think that. it was much more playable in early career before.

Before responding to this post, please start a career from scratch and achieve your first orbit. then you will know what it's really like. you cannot appreciate this problem with mods and all the parts you are used to.

it should be hard, not impossible.

fwiw, i am not enjoying this version. beta than ever was beta than this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your very experienced with OLD ksp. So all of that experience is MOOT, with the new aerodynamics.

If you were new you would know this game is hard, and it is hard. The game also got "harder" with the new areodynamics to a degree as there is more to think about. But truly this game isn't easy, its just you thought you knew everything and now there is something new to learn. So the game is hard again.

If you give up on the first day then yes this game is not for you. Going back to the old ways wont really help anyone actually invested into learning KSP.

You can't turn far from Prograde during your gravity turn or you risk tumbling out of control. All engines that had gimbals were pretty much buffed to provide added control during ascent and decent. You also can't ascend to fast with crazy amounts of thrust as you risk burning up during ascent (you really need to be going fast)

I do have to agree controlling earlier rockets is more difficult. But its more piloting error, not game error. I personally like how rockets actually take some skill to fly, planes shouldn't be the only ones that need to be flown with skill. If anything just learning how to ascend through the new atmosphere should be fine. Just use the LV-T45 for the gimbal, grab a few fins for stabilization and build a basic 1 stack rocket. Unless its far to long you will be fine. Just don't be so aggressive pulling away from the pro grade during your gravity turn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're still trying to go up to 10k and then turn 45 degrees, that's why your rockets are losing control. I started a completely stock career, and getting things into orbit hasn't been a problem at all. Launch without too much power (thrust limit your early SRBs, manage your throttle on liquid engines - if you're seeing mach/reentry effects, you're going too fast), nudge your rocket 5 degrees eastward when you're going roughly 100 m/s, and then just follow your prograde marker to victory. It's quite doable with sleek, realistic looking rockets, and I've been putting some silly things into orbit as well, but I've had a lot of practice with FAR. If you're still having trouble staying on target, SQUAD has created new tier-0 fins that should make learning the new aerodynamics a lot easier from the first launch, and bigger fins at tier 2.

Good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am on a hard mode career and am relatively far in. I have got into orbit about 20 or so times and the next will most likely be for a moon landing. It isn't hard if you put wings on the bottom if necessary, use aerodynamic nosecones, and follow the most efficient flight path. The new aerodynamics mean you have to redesign your rockets. Don't try turning 45 degrees at 10 Km. In fact, my second launch was an orbital launch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really more about the speed you are at when in lower atmo. If you aren't going too fast, you can manage some turn at lower atmo with little problem, as long as you aren't treating your craft like it is an X-Wing. This is aerodynamic ballistics, not fly wherever you please on infinite fuel and blasters, kid. Even the best built jets will go out of control if you bank them hard enough at high speeds. You are getting a crash course in air making you its ...... If you don't treat it right, it will throw you back down at the ground and tell you to stay there.

With 1.0, I didn't even plan on going anywhere but up from the beginning. I just use each new size of SRB to just go straight up and rack in the cash and prestige from the altitude, speed, and distance records broken. As well as any science I can gather from the goo and crew reports. Until you get as far as making orbit, there really is nothing else necessary to do, and by then, you should have access to much better parts to help you manage maneuvering in atmo better.

So, in lower atmosphere when you are shooting for space, don't turn hard. Baby taps to make gravity turns is the way to go. In fact, it will be ideal to not even go full or even three-quarters throttle from launch. Better to accumulate that speed slower so you can manage easier turns at the start. When you hit thinner atmosphere (darker blue on the bar), then start pumping it up. You will actually get better efficiency out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm currently on Tier 8 in Normal mode career. Your big mistake is relying on reaction wheels to do things they shouldn't be able to do. Control fins will hold the rocket stable, but you have a choice.. either an engine that gimbals or a fins that are active. Try not to do both. If the engine gimbals, use static fins to keep to keep it flying straight, and don't go too fast. It seems backward to those accustomed to the soup-o-sphere, but the faster you fly the harder it is to change direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am now tempted to do a video series on career mode on hard difficulty.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scott Manley has a new set of videos on career mode. Take a look at episode 5. He puts a simple rocket in orbit and shows the proper ascent path. You need to give yourself a little more time and try and forget the bad habits you picked up from stock aero. It took me a while to figure out how to launch rockets with FAR in .25 the new aero has a similar learning curve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can adjust things by hitting alt-f12, may take some experimenting on your part to get the settings how you like that are closer to post 1.0.

As for the current version it took me several reverts trying stuff out. Speed in the lower atmosphere is an issue beyond just wasting delta-v, turning too far away from the prograde marker at low altitudes is bad a lot of the times, TWR of 1.6 - 1.8 seems like the sweet spot for most of my designs on the launch pad, fins are a must if you are having trouble(you can launch without them but having that control surface makes things a little easier), you need to start your turn early like almost off the pad early or at least below 1k(this is no more than a 5 degree turn), I am finding it better to leave SAS off until the upper atmosphere since it seems to want to resist the turn.

Most times now after my intial 5 degree turn I am only controling the throttle with SAS off letting the rocket turn by itself, this took several reverts with different rockets for me to get down. I am not an expert but speed seems very important in controling the turn, too fast your rocket resist the turn, too slow your rocket will turn to fast(someone may correct me on this but it is what seems to be happening). I also found it helpful to just focus on getting as close to orbital velocity as fast as I could and ignored my AP during several launches. It help me figure out efficient launch profiles which I am still working on but I am getting better with each launch costing me less delta-v and getting the AP closer to my desired altitude.

To sum up going too fast is bad, turning too aggressively is bad, start your turn early, with enough launches, practice and good designs you will have a rockets that get to orbit almost on their own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't try turning 45 degrees at 10 Km. In fact, my second launch was an orbital launch.

In fact, from what I've been learning, you want to be pitched to 45 degrees or so by the time you get to 10km

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basic fins are so magical that with 1.0.2 I've gone back to using the LV-T30 instead of the LV-T45 - I don't need the gimbal anymore, and I don't even have reaction wheels on my rockets, just the command pods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest issue is the small fuel tanks you start with. You need to stack a lot of them but you don't get struts for a while. That makes rockets really bendy and hard to control with SAS on. Turning SAS off in the thicker atmosphere actually made my 1.0.2 ascents a lot easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott Manley has a new set of videos on career mode. Take a look at episode 5. He puts a simple rocket in orbit and shows the proper ascent path. You need to give yourself a little more time and try and forget the bad habits you picked up from stock aero. It took me a while to figure out how to launch rockets with FAR in .25 the new aero has a similar learning curve.

Agree. I started a new Career Mode at hardest level and had to drop some nasty habits I had developed from .9 and learned more of the science in two day than the previous five months. A lot more skill is needed to control things and I've had to think more before building, take more care with each step, get to grips with the finer details of parts and so on. Absolutely fantastic. Before, it was like learning to sail a 50 foot yacht without ever having sailed a skiff. Now I sailing the skiff, getting a wet bum and loving it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The biggest issue is the small fuel tanks you start with. You need to stack a lot of them but you don't get struts for a while. That makes rockets really bendy and hard to control with SAS on. Turning SAS off in the thicker atmosphere actually made my 1.0.2 ascents a lot easier.

Yeah, this is one of the toughest challenges in the early game. I'm not sure why 1.0 rockets wobble around like wet noodles again, but its very annoying. I'm now back to covering even my basic rockets with struts just to hold them together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My early rockets are suborbital (and mostly use solid boosters). They can achieve milestones and get a bit of science but orbiting requires some tech or several career restarts to do with low tech.

The rocket below can reach a decent orbit but before i attempted that, i unlocked aviation first because it can earn enough science to pay for itself and unlock lots of early tech usefull for easier orbital flights or ones involving more than 1 Kerbal.

Satellites are extremly usefull for harvesting "science from space around Kerbin" contracts and while you're deploying a polar sat, have the crew do EVA reports over different biomes to really score a ton of science. Add a launchpad upgrade and you can try a Munar pass and build much heavier rockets with more fuel for orbital activities. The early career progress can be done in any order really, not neccesarily going for full orbit or 909 engines. :)

Early progress in hard careers is about keeping an eye on your funds (sell reputation if you must, use planes because you can recover them fully) and buying techs that can help you reach/exploit new sources of science (planes again, thermometer, EVA upgrade).

XDScRMvm.png

I just realised the rocket doesn't need fins on the bottom booster. It's discarded at 3000m. The main LF engine is a T-30.

yICmuq5m.png

Career progression required to build the rocket. [Aviation and stability are not required]

Edited by georgTF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here guys try these, my 1.0.2 career starter pack of rockets and planes, all the rockets you will need from your first launch to landing on the mun to putting satellites in orbit.

Bottle rocket mk1

VJrzY0j.jpg

Description:

The first "rocket" you will need in your career, though it is more of a fire cracker...

Cost: 2942

Part count: 5

Weight: 2.2T

Download link:

http://www./download/q6lkvojf5zqv18p/Bottle+rocket+mk+1.craft

Bottle rocket mk2

bFRkqBD.jpg

Description:

This rocket will in no way safely get one of your kerbals into space and possibly return them, not capable of orbit.

Cost: 10,232

Part count: 27

Weight: 13.4T

Download link:

http://www./download/zs1idmazikvsnzr/Bottle+rocket+mk+2.craft

m2g6aAP.jpg

2W5N5qM.jpg

JIc3253.jpg

bqNjMV9.jpg

DIC1TVq.jpg

1xEkFco.jpg

rMgDQrJ.jpg

Bottle rocket mk3

pGDoNmz.jpg

Description:

This rocket will reliably get you into LKO/HKO and safely return you back to kerbin.

Cost: 29,152

Part count: 64

Weight: 49.8T

Download link:

http://www./download/o3j579cdy1b10if/Bottle+rocket+mk+3.craft

VdI1RO6.jpg

crKSqa8.jpg

dhL1TzD.jpg

6dNPyaD.jpg

tsqbtxR.jpg

YBTHhGv.jpg

AFd6qQ9.jpg

Bottle rocket mk4

L3aVYc0.jpg

Description:

This rocket will reliably allow you to get into Munar orbit and return to kerbin safely.

Cost: 41,900

Part count: 96

Weight: 71.1T

Download link:

http://www./download/hs6dv5hi3oybcy9/Bottle+rocket+mk+4.craft

JLGFoq2.jpg

GSE18ZG.jpg

0HMKTHZ.jpg

x9qLeGU.jpg

gSLwarj.jpg

xsWQlhD.jpg

RCa2PHS.jpg

ibby6TU.jpg

VAzPWsR.jpg

Rescue rocket mk1

eiDeLUz.jpg

Description:

Capable of rescuing lost kerbals from LKO/HKO

Cost: 29,208

Part count: 61

Weight: 50.6T

Download link:

http://www./download/0uj70m98y52u4pt/Rescue+rocket+mk1.craft

hIsw2au.jpg

EhbGJbl.jpg

Hs08Ze3.jpg

hPQUvF6.jpg

d29EIg1.jpg

ssiqS3E.jpg

Ty59wC6.jpg

Mun lander mk1

lusNBSw.jpg

This rocket will reliably get you to the Mun, Land you there then send you back to kerbin again.

Cost: 98,878

Part count: 212

Weight: 223.6T

Download link:

http://www./download/vslzk47cyvq3dzc/Mun+lander+mk+1.craft

470jTP9.jpg

wSnLYTG.jpg

v2DwyJV.jpg

SJCxwVW.jpg

N3xcBsB.jpg

KK2VHwJ.jpg

phF09r5.jpg

toBLxFN.jpg

Yk5dArZ.jpg

xLrenAb.jpg

MxSoDKn.jpg

aYAT8f7.jpg

tTN45xH.jpg

CMrlwGN.jpg

Comms sat mk1

nAQDEkr.jpg

Description:

capable of putting its communications satellite into any LKO/HKO you might need.

Cost: 70,682

Part count: 145

Weight: 205.9T

Download link:

http://www./download/s9z7sx94u6irlrg/Comms+sat+mk1.craft

qJidSCX.jpg

HTNAQ0O.jpg

4yvwBTp.jpg

1D8xfmK.jpg

Triple C-T mk1

YTwnexh.jpg

Description:

This craft will safely carry a pilot and 2 kerbals to your desired destination on kerbal

Cost: 21,305

Part count: 37

Weight: 14T

Download link:

http://www./download/gxpy4lw18ebau35/Triple+C-T+mk1.craft

Triple C-T mk2

3uuACR6.jpg

Description:

A more refined version of the original plane.

Cost: 29,947

Part count: 57

Weight: 15.2T

Download link:

http://www./download/oi2785f22v3e1m7/Triple+C-T+mk2.craft

Science explorer mk1

8pI9r1d.jpg

This plane carries all the science equipment you could need to gather some science on Kerbin.

Cost: 31,067

Part count: 62

Weight: 13.4T

Download link:

http://www./download/rp6o82hlj1e38ar/Science+explorer+mk1.craft

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hard mode + dead zero being difficult is a good thing.

Only thing is the ferry and part test missions are annoying to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hard mode + dead zero being difficult is a good thing.

Only thing is the ferry and part test missions are annoying to me.

I stopped ferrying and don't like part testing, though it's usefull if it gets you a part you don't have access to. Survey and sat missions are quite fun actually. ymmv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't say it's difficult, but progression is very grindy and very boring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have played 1.0.0 in hard mode (have not been able to download 1.0.2 yet)

I am now saving money for the second tier research building, I want to get it before manned minmus/mun landings.

I already have most other buildings at second tier (except runway, SPH and administration)

I have done unmanned landings on Minmus and Mun.

I have had to trade a lot of reputation into money to not get stuck, but now I am slower regaining it.

On hard mode the most important thing to unlock is the node with the basic solar panels.

it also has the first probe core with reaction wheels and SAS.

When I got it, I only had Bob left, Valentina was dead, Jeb was stuck on low orbit, Bill is stuck on solar orbit and next kerbal would have cost over 100000 funds.

At the begining the game is easy, after you reach orbit it becomes hard or grindy to progress, once you reach Mun/Minmus it becomes easy again, then there are some endgame challenges (Eve return...) that can be difficult.

Edited by Joonatan1998

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP, think back to when you first started playing KSP. Getting to orbit likely seemed "impossible" then, too. But it wasn't; you looked up some YouTube videos, kept trying new stuff, and eventually, you got the hang of it. If you had just thrown up your hands and given up, you would have never enjoyed playing KSP at all.

You have a huge advantage over the completely new players who are just now starting to blow stuff up. Trust me, getting to orbit with the new aero is not that hard, and didn't take me too long to figure out. I'm confident you can do it too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all i can say is this:

if this is consistent with your observations then i hereby admit that KSP has now passed a level beyond my capabilities. 660 hrs - it was a good run.

p.s. the problem is the lift model. what you see here is a classic example of dynamic instability. and it shouldn't be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's definitely an aggravating gap in the early career where you need to be getting into orbit for the science, and at best have the LV-45 for control. The first fins that are actually any use are on a 45 science node. The fixed fins I mostly find to be a different flavour of horrible to fly. Rather than flipping over if you stray from prograde, you'll just end up stuck on too shallow a trajectory and your rocket ends up as a lawn dart.

OP, think back to when you first started playing KSP. Getting to orbit likely seemed "impossible" then, too. But it wasn't; you looked up some YouTube videos, kept trying new stuff, and eventually, you got the hang of it. If you had just thrown up your hands and given up, you would have never enjoyed playing KSP at all.

Dunno about the OP, but not even close to accurate for me. First time out I had a few issues with bringing enough delta-v, but I wasn't having to fight rockets flipping over if you stray more than a few degrees from prograde. Ditto for FAR - that was different, but I found it actually rather easier to fly with. 1.0 Career mode is just annoying until you have tier 4 techs at present as you basically have no decent control options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still find career mode more playable in 1.0/1.0.2 (tried both for atmo testing with low tech) than it was in 0.90. The progression feels smoother if a little forced. There's amost no grind in 1.0+ too (at least in normal mode), which is always good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this