Service bay causes entire ship to vibrate or the part itself vibrates and then breaks ship!

[CodedThreat]

Hello,

I have come across this a few times now, first with the 1.0 release, then in 1.0.1 and again in 1.0.2. The service bay, both 1.25 and 2.5 will suddenly start to vibrate and the parts inside will try to phase out of the bay. It will either vibrate the whole ship, or just the part itself will vibrate and break the ship apart. It doesn't seem to matter what parts I have inside the bay (Mystery Goo, Mono Prop, Tac food supplies, batteries, etc.) or where and how I place the items (girder with parts attached, or parts attached to ceiling and floor of the bay).

Right now I have a small base orbiting mun that as soon as I go to it, the service bay starts to vibrate and then breaks the ship in half. I have had it happen without mods in 1.0 and now that I have modded a little it is still happening. I only have simple mods, KER, TAC life support and fuel balancer, Navyfish Docking, Alarm clock. No parts packs, the only extra parts were from TAC. So I am pretty sure it is not the mods, plus like I said, it first happened in an un-modded version when 1.0 first got released. Not sure if this is a bug or something else going on here (perhaps parts are clipping and causing an issue).

One thing I noticed was on a little Mun lander I built that had a service bay, it started to vibrate and I was able to open the doors and it would calm down and same with if the doors were open and it started to act up, I could close the doors and it would kinda reset itself. Not sure what is going on here and I searched all over but did not see anyone else talking about this issue. I am about to try a totally fresh install and see if that changes anything.

Thanks for any help!

[CodedThreat]

So, I have noticed that after a clean install and playing totally vanilla, I can still make this happen if I am clipping into the top or bottom of the service bay or have parts clipping inside the bay (for instance, putting lights in top and pushing them up into the top to keep it nice and clean, or putting a girder or science jr. into the bay and loading it up with stuff and going clip happy with batteries and other parts to get them to fit in there). The ship will be fine for a while and then for whatever reason it will just not like it anymore and cause the whole ship to start going nuts. So far if I do not do any clipping then it seems to be fine. I am going to continue messing around with it and see what happens but I thought since the clipping for most things was basically removed since the implementation of the adjustment tools that this would not cause any problems?

[AlamoVampire]

codedthreat, you are not the only one seeing this kind of behavior. Das Valdez is streaming live right now, and he has had those little bays rip his stuff apart too.

[CodedThreat]

Well glad to know it is not just me and that even Das is having this issue. I had looked around on here and no one else was saying anything about this being an issue so I was getting worried I was the only one. Hope it gets fixed soon cause I really do like the service bays.

[Dessloch]

Ahh, so this is why my rocket always wants to fall apart during ascent? By the way where do you install the Small Inline Reaction Wheel? Because the wheel's diameter is smaller then the engines or fuel tanks and that's also can make some wobbling. In carrier mode of course.

[CodedThreat]

I only use them on the top of a stage under a fairing, never connected to a ship, usually the ship has enough torque for my smaller ships once they are up in orbit. Once I get bigger ships the large SAS goes pretty close to the CoM on my ships. Unless you mean the really tiny ones, and those just get slapped right onto the probe core body or under the battery that is slapped on the probe core body.

But this is not wobble, I have had my whole screen shaking before when the ship was vibrating and not even being able to time warp cause it is telling me that I am accelerating. F5 and then doing F9 does nothing cause as soon as physics loads, the ship starts going nuts again. Sometimes you can catch it and get a time warp in, but in the end it doesn't matter cause as soon as you come out of it, the ship will start to go nuts again.

If I have some time later I will try to record a clip of what some of my ships do and post a link here. Some of it is Danny level nuts.

[AlphaAsh]

Pretty sure this is just an issue with clipping. When you put anything in a service bay, make sure it doesn't clip through the top, bottom, sides, or closed doors. This should mean no arguments between colliders and the code that is trying to 'occlude' the contents of the bay.

Clipping inside a bay = crazy fun vibration time!

[CodedThreat]

Pretty sure this is just an issue with clipping. When you put anything in a service bay, make sure it doesn't clip through the top, bottom, sides, or closed doors. This should mean no arguments between colliders and the code that is trying to 'occlude' the contents of the bay.

Clipping inside a bay = crazy fun vibration time!

I went by Das' stream a bit after AlamoVampire posted here and messaged Das in his chat. He said he cannot even use the bay by itself, nothing in it. So maybe the bay is just not attaching properly. And clipping should not be an issue since clipping was pretty much allowed in .90 when they put in the tools to rotate, move, change root and all that fun stuff. So... yes I understand it is just a collider, but when you can't even put the thing on your ship empty, then there is a issue. I am still doing some testing and messing around, but I have put the 1.25 on a simple ship with nothing in it and when I zoomed in after getting suborbital, the bay was shifting a bit, not much, it didn't go completely nuts, but still moving around for no reason.

I am still going to mess around with it some more, but it certainly needs to be looked at and hopefully fixed by the devs cause I love the part and seriously it should not have any issues with some minor clipping into the floor or ceiling of it, I mean they had to have known people would try to put lights in the thing and clip them into the ceiling of the thing to make things sleek and nice looking.... Right?

[Joshwoo70]

did you try kerbal joint reinforcement?

[CodedThreat]

did you try kerbal joint reinforcement?

Yes, I installed KJR and ended up leaving it installed, for now, cause it is seemed to keep my ships intact (I did notice if I was careful with placement of the service bay in stock, if seemed to be fine 99% of the time). The only issue I have with needing to use KJR is that the service bay is part of the stock game, and a part I really loved seeing when steam updated me to 1.0. I should not need to use a mod to not have my ship vibrate my whole screen or have it tear apart cause of a bad part. Although some form of KJR should be in the stock game (the way physics is loaded right now has caused issues before) I don't like using it too much cause it creates lazy ship building, since stuff that would normally just fall apart on the pad is suddenly able to launch without any issues. And on top of that, if I am going to use KJR to keep things together, then why not just go into the debug menu and enable unbreakable parts? It feels cheaty and I would rather the parts just gets fixed.

[Captain Sierra]

Clipping inside a bay = crazy fun vibration time!

Its possible to achieve this result with clipping other parts too. I reproduced stock 1.0.0 by clipping 6 1.25m fuel tanks to an I-beam under a Mk 2 lander can (they spread apart until explosions). There's weirdness with clipping sometimes not working and I dunno what exactly is going on. Will temporarily remove mods to re-confirm stock and add logs (in other words, confirm this as a bug of medium priority).

[CodedThreat]

Hmm, I will have to try that out too. I haven't had any issues with any other parts so far. Clipping has been fine for everything else, but the service bay has been problematic. I know Roverdude has gone into Das' stream and told him how to use the part for now to make it not explod-ie. So there does seem to be a known issue with those parts. Let us know what you find.

[brygun]

I think this may be what I've been seeing too.

I launched a 6 Kerbal lander which has in the center column a 2.5 service bay and 3 of 1.25 m bays. Fuel and engine stacks on each side of the center stack.

Meeting this is a 64 fuel tanker with a 2 Kerbal capacity which also used a 2.5 service bay to store some bits.

In space docket them using the Junior couplers (career mode, its the only one I have researched) to build up to a large count space station contract. I was piloting the Tanker with MechJeb onto the lander.

Took a break from game playing and saved the game. Later in the day came back to the saved game. Several reloads have confirmed that the Lander falls apart. One test I got the ships undocked and after undocked the lander fell apart.

By falling apart is the visible struts disappear, the fuel tanks come off the main column, most of the main column comes apart. >Some< parts stay attached to each other. If even seen a parachute floating by itself.

the Lander's 2.5 service bay includes having a material bay science tester in the center, which may be the collision computing part.

I put some screenshots up.

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198007663027/screenshot/47630115319374485

Having seen this thread I reloaded and quickly opened the bays. so far no seperation.

- - - Updated - - -

I was watching my joined ships thrust and watched a fuel tank slip 1/2 up into the service bay!

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198007663027/screenshot/47630115319418671

[CodedThreat]

Here is a little clip to show what happened to me the other day. The service bay was acting fine with KJR installed, so I decided to see how it would act if I tried to really fill the bay and let the parts clip a bit. Now I only clipped the bottom and top, not the sides, the parts inside were clipping each other, but outside the bay they caused no issues. I created a MunHotel and filled the bay with a bunch of parts. I had a bunch of TAC LS containers in there and a bunch of the Inline controllers. For added extra, I also put a strut outside the doors to see how they reacted to clipping.

So the first part of the flight, totally fine, made it to orbit, shot out to the Mun, no problems. I had popped the doors a few times to see how everything inside was doing, the door kinda clipped a little when it hit the strut but was fine once it got past it. So I do a orbit or 2 around the Mun, everything seems good. I pop back to KSC, build another ship, decide that I want to bring the MunHotel back to Kerbin orbit cause I want to refuel it and send it out to Minmus instead. I load up the ship, it seems fine, I set a node to get me back to Kerbin, seems fine, I hit F5 and time warp, I come out of time warp and it goes nuts. I hold F9 and as soon as the ship loads up, the bay goes nuts shortly after KJR finishes its load. F9 a few more times, like clockwork the ship loads, KJR does its thing and the ship starts to go nuts.

So I recorded it. The quality might not be the best (I was on my laptop) but you will something gets flung out of the ship and explodes far away in the background a bit after the bay starts going nuts, and you can see me trying to click away and the close door. The bay does finally settle down once I hit the button a bunch, but without KJR, this would have destroyed the ship. Enjoy!

Edited May 9, 2015 by CodedThreat
added youtube clip

[brygun]

In term solution (hooray)

Use normal time warp and turn it off again. Not the alt-. just the normal .

The one where you no longer have engines powering. This shuts down the physics for a moment. The bay becomes stable. It may happen again but you can do this as needed until the code is tweaked.

[CodedThreat]

In term solution (hooray)

Use normal time warp and turn it off again. Not the alt-. just the normal .

The one where you no longer have engines powering. This shuts down the physics for a moment. The bay becomes stable. It may happen again but you can do this as needed until the code is tweaked.

If the bay is already tweaking out, it wont let you time warp. It says that the craft is accelerating. You can sometimes spam the warp button to get it to kick in, but yes, if you can get it to warp, it does snap everything back into place... until you come back out of time warp, then it usually starts up again.

- - - Updated - - -

Here is another little snippet from a stock craft I built in the stock game, No Mods at all. I did not over fill the bay and the only part that was clipped was up at the top I installed some lights so you can see into the bay, but they hardly clipped the top. What you can see is when I open and close the door, the contents inside shift. And they did that every time I opened or closed the door. At least it didn't go completely nuts this time. I was able to go all the way out to Mun, land and come back without any ship breaking incidents.

Edited May 9, 2015 by CodedThreat
added youtube clip

[moondogccr]

I have the exact issue as well. I guess its just a matter of time for the part to get fixed... eventualy.

The only "workaround" I found that works is to make sure I quicksave first before going into ship view, and then promptly close/open the service bay doors once quickly, to prevent it to start shaking.

I typically assing an action group to the service bay doors to make it easier...

[richfiles]

I myself put up a ship with a crew capacity of nine... four tourists, and five empty seats. I launched with a probe core, I rescued five new recruits (four from Kerbin, one around Mun), gambled that one of the five would be a scientist (she was), set up a near polar orbit around Mun and collected what science I could from orbit... All went well...

Then I headed off to Minmus. In transit, I returned to the space center and checked for new contracts... Where upon returning to my ship, and loading the physics model of said ship, BOTH of the service bays on my ship glitched out, and were "shifted and off angle". The physics between the clipping parts seemed to cause phantom forces that caused the ship to spin uncontrollably (though it stayed in one piece, I have KJR installed). I learned that physics warp seemed to bump off enough precision at max speed that the glitching became semi controllable (axial spin was still uncontrollable, but I could still orient the ship using MechJeb's Smart A.S.S. (I mainly use Mechjeb for the information windows, orientation, and for the Maneuver Node Editor. I also use Nanogauges... cause seriously, they rock). I was still able to get my orbital and sub orbital requirements at Minmus for my tourists, abandoned any further Minmus science collection, and burned for home. I ran my engine for as long as it held out to decelerate in the atmosphere as much as was possible. I got down to about 1100 m/s by the time I hit the 30,000 m region, and despite minimal visual flame effects, my engine heat, combined with the friction eventually did blow it up. I ditched my engine and tank stage, and finished the decent on chutes.

All my parachutes survived, even the off kilter ones in the small service bay up top, and nothing detached. I don't know if I even touched the ablator! Touched down in water, with all five rescued crew saved, the four tourists happy, if only a bit dizzy from the 10 day spin cycle, and about 1500 science! Woot!

Anyway, from what I can assess, the consensus is that the service bays simply can not handle any degree of part clipping, period. You're fine if you never leave the ship in a manner that causes the physics model to unload (returning to KSC, of going on EVA or switching to another ship and traveling far enough away, sometimes time warp). Problem seems to happen on physics load for me. If it reloads the physics model, it has a chance of loading it wrong. I had a Science Jr sticking through the wall of my service bay at approximately 45°... It was STACK MOUNTED inside! XD

Man, those two service bays were really dancing' a jig!

Furthermore, this isn't just a Windows problem. This was happening to me on Mac OS X as well.

Needless to say, I will suck it up and use more serve modules in the future, rather than try to jam pack those puppies!

[capran]

Glad I'm not the only one experiencing this glitch. I've lost several ships to this bug!! Just a few days ago, I had my big mothership in orbit of Pol, and I was having the lander rendezvous with it, and as soon as it came within physics range, the mothership exploded into a cloud of debris!

I ended up trying to salvage the mission with docking, KIS and KAS and a rescue ship. Although I don't like the way KIS handles part attachment now, since you can't attach a part to the back of your Kerbal and just EVA over to the other ship and then attach. Have to move the part, drop it, move the Kerbal closer, move the part again. Very tedious and frustrating, and forget it if anything starts drifting away...