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Well, for me 1.02 made KSP easier


Gargamel

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So I'm reading all this wah and woe about how the new updates and hotfixes destroyed the game.

I disagree.

I have never been able to get to orbit without mechJeb. Spaceplanes were out of the question.

Well, on a purely stock game, I was able to get to a fairly circular orbit within 3 launches (sandbox), and the first two were just a lack of TWR. And then land the pod in the ocean just outside the KSP, close enough to my target.

Then I get ambitious. I'm working on a Space Shuttle analog right now. I just have to balance the thrust to get it to fly right and I should have a usable orbiter. The recovery part is is easy as pie. Thing glides like a brick with wings, just like it should.

So I don't know what people are complaining about. You just need to learn to adapt to the different systems.

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While I am glad you stopped cheating by playing with mods, you are clearly still doing something wrong. 1.0.2 broke KSP completely, it even deletes system32 if you try to stage a parachute.

But seriously, congrats on your successes. My campaign has gone swimmingly so far too :) 1.0.2 is fine by me.

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Well, I don't know if easier, but more interesting for sure. I just wish they fixed the SAS once and for all. For whatever reason that thing has never been right, first it destroyed your rockets, then it was too soft, then... and then... and now in 1.0.2 it induces some serious oscillations into your otherwise very stable rocket (which, if it wasn't for the re-done joints would tear your rocket apart ala 0.18 SAS).

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Well done! That's my favorite part of this game, that sudden feeling of "well, I made it! I did the thing! Hm, I wonder if I can do the BIGGER thing?"

I've been having a great time with 1.0.2 as well. As my career is reaching the point where I have access to all those shiny Mk3 spaceplane bits, I may have to try those out as well!

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While I am glad you stopped cheating by playing with mods, <snip> deletes system32....

Ok, to the first half of this. How are mods cheating? I honestly cannot tell if your being sarcastic or not, too burned out by school to try to figure it out.

Ok, to the second half of this: how or why does it delete system32 if you stage a parachute? if thats anything other than sarcasm then, thats a real problem. again, too burned out by school to try to figure it out.

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Ok, to the first half of this. How are mods cheating? I honestly cannot tell if your being sarcastic or not, too burned out by school to try to figure it out.

Ok, to the second half of this: how or why does it delete system32 if you stage a parachute? if thats anything other than sarcasm then, thats a real problem. again, too burned out by school to try to figure it out.

Twas a joke, please don't report my post. If anything the first part is a reference to my old sig I had for my first year or so here, "mechjeb is cheating". people kept reporting me for that though :huh: so I had to change it.

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Twas a joke, please don't report my post. If anything the first part is a reference to my old sig I had for my first year or so here, "mechjeb is cheating". people kept reporting me for that though :huh: so I had to change it.

im not reporting you at all. I was hunting for clarity that a burned out college mind just isnt seeing. jokes all fun until ya put a persons eye out. :) tho as a side note, that would be a major bug if a parachute not only deployed itself, but ate system files lol. lets keep out our cans of raid just in case?

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For me, 1.0.2 made going up a bit harder and coming back down a lot easier. You really need to stick with your prograde marker now on the ascent or you'll start to tumble really easily. On the other hand, re entry heating doesn't seem to be substantial enough to be of any consequence any more.

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I can't say yet that it made KSP easier for me (I'd just finished a big Duna mission in .90 and haven't been back there yet) - but it definitely made the game better for me.

I've had to, and enjoyed having to, measure the TWR of my launch vehicles. 1.0 came out just as I was getting to a stage in my game-play where I wanted to start planning out Delta V, TWR, and other things so that I wasn't wasting fuel. The afore mentioned Duna mission had waaaaay to much life support and fuel for a Duna-return trip and it made me want to do it again but with more elegance.

The new tech tree (which I'm still not in love with though largely prefer to the old one) encouraged this as well.

I've also started getting better at gravity turns. Before I was doing something turn-ish but not really doing a gravity turn. Now I am getting closer to it.

In 0.25 or 0.90 I don't remember which I tried flying Squad's Learster STS and found that the balance on it was beyond my ability to make orbit (even with an empty cargo bay). Last night I made orbit with fuel to spare in the big booster, de-orbited smoothly and gently before setting down in the desert. My own STS attempts haven't been as successful yet but so far I'm loving all of the changes.

I fell I'm being encouraged and allowed to learn more about aerospace exploration while still playing a fun game.

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For me im annoyed about the low skill cap on SSTO's, all you have to do to build an SSTO is chuck 4 rapiers on a lifting body with 2 wings and BAM SSTO...

The worst part is that is skill limit, a LKO SSTO that will never go beyond LKO... Yayyy...

I hate this version, creativity and aesthetics have been replaced with "build a craft that already exists, dont bother sharing it by the way because remember, its already been built 500 times before you built it"

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For me im annoyed about the low skill cap on SSTO's, all you have to do to build an SSTO is chuck 4 rapiers on a lifting body with 2 wings and BAM SSTO...

The worst part is that is skill limit, a LKO SSTO that will never go beyond LKO... Yayyy...

I hate this version, creativity and aesthetics have been replaced with "build a craft that already exists, dont bother sharing it by the way because remember, its already been built 500 times before you built it"

ive seen some impressive pics on stuff thats been built since 1.0 came out. There is a reason some designs get built over and over again. Its because they WORK. Its why there are countless 767's and MD80's and even 737's in the skies. The design works for each of those birds. That being said, there is a counter point. most craft built prior to 1.0 were built when the game was vastly different, and what worked then, probably wont work now. We will adapt. YOU will adapt. Things will get prettier if you have the patience to watch.

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I loved 1.0, it was done right stock without a boatload of mods.

Squad you totally had the capability there for people to switch off heat ect..... So depressing.

Please Squard just have a button in settings that keeps everything to 1.0 atmosphere ect. Leave the challenge for us that need it :(

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For me im annoyed about the low skill cap on SSTO
Yes, God forbid anyone but you and those you deem "skilled" can enjoy SSTO spaceplanes. Your attitude and behavior over the last few days have been tiring to the extreme.
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I love it. I swapped to MechJeb launches in career mode as soon as possible, when I played 0.90, because launching was incredibly boring. Now ascend profiles of rockets change with their aerodynamics and TWR. If you have a tried and tested system, you can still improve in the launch instead of "go to 10k, 45 degree till apo is right, coast, circularize". A trained chimp would be bored. Now i try to get rockets with bloated fairings but without wings into orbit. And I can do it. MechJeb cannot. Take this, stupid computer brain, bwahaha...

And the rockets look really sleek. Not the broad things with lots of asparagus and boosters. Few stages, a single column after the launch stage. Sleeeeeeek.

1.0.2 is great for me.

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For me im annoyed about the low skill cap on SSTO's, all you have to do to build an SSTO is chuck 4 rapiers on a lifting body with 2 wings and BAM SSTO...

Yes, easy to do when you are playing sandbox or are up to that point in your career or science mode.

The worst part is that is skill limit, a LKO SSTO that will never go beyond LKO... Yayyy...

You need to take the time to remember what SSTO stands for. If it went beyond LKO, it would be called something else.

I hate this version, creativity and aesthetics have been replaced with "build a craft that already exists, dont bother sharing it by the way because remember, its already been built 500 times before you built it"

AlamoVampire covered this one well enough.

There are a few legitimate concerns about 1.0.2, which none of your points actually fall under. Part of the issue seems to be Squad has taken a lot of players spoiled to a certain method of play outside of their comfort zone. Something I actually don't see as an issue, except for the plethora of complaints that have spawned because of it. Every time Squad has changed the rules to a significant bit, the game always feels fresh to me, with new challenges. By your thinking you would prefer it go back to the old way, just with more new parts to play with. That isn't going to happen, at least the former bit. It's a brave new world in KSP, and you can either make the effort to discard everything you have learned so as to take on the new, or you can try something else. Sitting their complaining about you not liking your new version that got served to you is doing nothing but annoying everyone else at the table.

I read through a lot of forum posts after 1.0.2 came out, claiming there were a lot of problems with it. Then I booted up KSP and gave it a whirl with a few rockets, and found none of those issues present. I didn't even have to retry a launch to do something different. Heck, I even took the Kerbal X up, and I found myself actually pulling off a more efficient launch to the point I think a Munar landing and return is now possible with that crazy craft (where before you had to try real hard to manage only a Munar landing)

Yes, there are some glitches and bugs that could be addressed. Do any of the points you bring up fall into any of them? No. At least, not as far as your limited detailed post actually presents.

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Most complaints are from those trying to play the sim using .090 skills using .090 designs. As they have found out, that is not going to work with the redesign of aerodynamic effects and re balancing of parts of 1.02. In short' you have to approach the sim from scratch with testing and new ideas.

In Career, it was necessary to go slow with launches to get the tech from altitude records, etc... Much of that has been automated in 1.02 with the results that two well planned flights can unlock enough tech for a sub orbital of this design to earn a bunch more Science and a lot of funds for upgrades early on.

dcDSJbK.jpg

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For me im annoyed about the low skill cap on SSTO's, all you have to do to build an SSTO is chuck 4 rapiers on a lifting body with 2 wings and BAM SSTO...

The worst part is that is skill limit, a LKO SSTO that will never go beyond LKO... Yayyy...

I hate this version, creativity and aesthetics have been replaced with "build a craft that already exists, dont bother sharing it by the way because remember, its already been built 500 times before you built it"

I'd like to quote you from another thread:

SSTO's (from the space plane hanger) are dead, even if someone does actually manage to get one into orbit they will never be useful for anything other than crew transfers, using one for payloads is a fools dream, heck even leaving LKO is a fools dream with this new aero.

We're all tired of hearing your complaining.

So to reply to 2 of your statements at once:

11128372_10103556941692163_5969436014410157581_n.jpg?oh=92df6832a219f9e5798299f37dbe6b79&oe=55CC2215

>33% payload fraction - can accomodate a variety of cargos by modifying fairing shape-> not limited to what you can cram in a mk3 bay.

>37% mass fraction if you're not dropping off cargo, and use internal fuel tanks too.

Which means, with its LV-Ns: 9.82*800* ln (1/(1-0.37)) = 3,630 m/s of delta V

That is enough to go to laythe, and get back to laythe orbit

That is enough to go to Duna and back (preferable mission architecture: go to duna, deploy a lander, recover lander, return to Kerbin).

It will easily get to minmus and back (TWR on the nukes is too low for Mun, I'm pretty sure you could configure it to have enough oxidizer to land on the mun with rapiers.

I have other pretty standard mk3 spaceplanes with nearly 30% payload fractions -> should be enough for a Mun landing.

So clearly, one can go beyond LKO with spaceplanes

It doesn't look like anything else I've seen others post, so it seems to be creative, and not something that's been replicated more or less 500 times.

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For me im annoyed about the low skill cap on SSTO's, all you have to do to build an SSTO is chuck 4 rapiers on a lifting body with 2 wings and BAM SSTO...

The worst part is that is skill limit, a LKO SSTO that will never go beyond LKO... Yayyy...

I hate this version, creativity and aesthetics have been replaced with "build a craft that already exists, dont bother sharing it by the way because remember, its already been built 500 times before you built it"

The simplest ssto has always been one rocket engine and enough fuel - it was never hard.

You seem to be suffering "creativity" problems more than some: the game has changed (in a way it needed to imho) so designs will change.

FWIW the first spaceplane I built in 1.02 takes 5t+ to LKO with ~33t take off weight - it also looks like a plane, has 600+ dV to spare, and takes 2 crew along - that's not seeming that hard so far.

The second version with no cargo has ~2900m/s dV left once in LKO - plenty to visit many places in the system.

I do tend to think getting payload to LKO is much easier than it should be (and I thought that when it was harder too ...) e.g. an Apollo style launch has rather titchy sized lower stages compared to what someone coming to the game for the first time might expect.

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It took me three or four launches to master the new atmosphere - and the first two never had my rocket flipping backwards, rather I just flew in an innefficient manner to the point of me requiring 6k m/s of dV to reach orbit - and after that I'm just loving 1.02. Don't understand the complaints, it's a neat game.

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I'd like to quote you from another thread:

We're all tired of hearing your complaining.

So to reply to 2 of your statements at once:

https://scontent-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/11128372_10103556941692163_5969436014410157581_n.jpg?oh=92df6832a219f9e5798299f37dbe6b79&oe=55CC2215

>33% payload fraction - can accomodate a variety of cargos by modifying fairing shape-> not limited to what you can cram in a mk3 bay.

>37% mass fraction if you're not dropping off cargo, and use internal fuel tanks too.

Which means, with its LV-Ns: 9.82*800* ln (1/(1-0.37)) = 3,630 m/s of delta V

That is enough to go to laythe, and get back to laythe orbit

That is enough to go to Duna and back (preferable mission architecture: go to duna, deploy a lander, recover lander, return to Kerbin).

It will easily get to minmus and back (TWR on the nukes is too low for Mun, I'm pretty sure you could configure it to have enough oxidizer to land on the mun with rapiers.

I have other pretty standard mk3 spaceplanes with nearly 30% payload fractions -> should be enough for a Mun landing.

So clearly, one can go beyond LKO with spaceplanes

It doesn't look like anything else I've seen others post, so it seems to be creative, and not something that's been replicated more or less 500 times.

It does not look like anything I have seen before, and not something I suspected should work in new aero.

And its pretty pointless to take an spaceplane farther than LKO with one exception, you can refuel it and send it to Laythe. Why should you bring wings an airbreathing engines somewhere else. Even going to Minmus will cost more fuel and you have to do an VTOL landing and takeoff.

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It does not look like anything I have seen before, and not something I suspected should work in new aero.

And its pretty pointless to take an spaceplane farther than LKO with one exception, you can refuel it and send it to Laythe. Why should you bring wings an airbreathing engines somewhere else. Even going to Minmus will cost more fuel and you have to do an VTOL landing and takeoff.

Well, yea... I don't desing my SSTOs to go to any place except LKO, or laythe.

Thats why I have that unconventional design: I want to carry large payloads to LKO, at which point I can continue to the destination without the wings and rapiers, and dead weight from empty fuel tanks used to get to LKO.

If the payload is larger than a MK 3 pay, what do you do? stick it in a fairing.

Ok, so you have a fairing, with a front and/or rear attachment point... how does one get that on a spaceplane? just sticking a SSTO in front of it or behind it would be horribly imbalanced... so the SSTO has to be built around it.

Its a general layout I've been using for a long time (back since .23 at least)

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/117535-No-more-SSTO-s?p=1881501&viewfull=1#post1881501

This one worked in 1.0:

11032221_10103550674651363_2148940416804389397_o.jpg

- but if you follow this thread;

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/116729-Stock-Payload-Fraction-Challenge-1-0-2-Edition?p=1881728&viewfull=1#post1881728

there were some serious heating issues that depended on the payload's heat sink capacity.

My new SSTO - why wouldn't it work? It is a bit flimsy, and without the payload to strut to, its really flimsy... but luckily when the payload is gone... so should its fuel, and its very light with lots of wing area, so it can come in slowly, and if you put it down gently, everything is fine.

I'd like something longer made of one piece instead of multiple FL-T800s... but the mk3 parts as on my 1.0 cargo SSTO are awefully heavy and wide.

rkman - yea, reentry heating does seem a bit irrelevant now... I assume that's what you are talking about.

In 1.0 my designs seemed to be limited by being able to get up to speed while climbing fast enough to avoid burning up

In 1.02, it seems to be limited by simply drag - just slapping a few more rapiers on a plane makes it work with no issues

Edited by KerikBalm
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