WaveFunctionP

[1.4.2] ForScience! v1.5.2 - Your science autopilot.

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, MaximilianPs said:

Same here, no Icon :(

Pleaaaaase !

A slightly modified version works fine for me.  You might want to check for conflicts with the other mods that you are loading.

 

skips

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, skips said:

A slightly modified version works fine for me.  You might want to check for conflicts with the other mods that you are loading.

@skips and where is it the "slightly modified version" ? .... I'm with the official ForScience v1.4 and it won't work :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It works fine for me in 1.1.3. It took me little while to realize it doesn't show an icon for things like probes and such (by design). You should test it with a manned mission. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, GrimwaldGaming said:

It works fine for me in 1.1.3. It took me little while to realize it doesn't show an icon for things like probes and such (by design). You should test it with a manned mission. 

If you want to use this mod with probes, lookup Starwaster's Science Patches.  They are Module Manager patches that install ModuleScienceContainer  modules in all probe vessels.  The lack of a ModuleScienceContainer prevents this mod from working with probes.

 

skips

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A "ForData!" companion mod would be a nice feature. It would gather one copy of all science reports regardless of current science value, with the reports intended to be supplied to a Science Lab data processor. For too lazy to click anything (like me) extra automation, when docking to a vessel with a science lab move the data to it and automatically start to process reports up to the data capacity.

I know its already been requested a few times but one copy per each science container would also be amazing.

Most of the time I would only use ForScience!, since most missions are return to Kerbin to be recovered at KSC. For data hoovering leading to a Sci Lab docking mission have ForData! on. Maybe make it on/off by rightclickng on FS button changing icon to a green FD.

Lots of features requested, no doubts lots of work :s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
v 1.4.1 - KSP v1.2 Support
- Fixed ScienceData signature

Awaiting approval from Curse.

edit: Should be available now.

This update was brought to you by Mr. S K. Thank you for your donation.

Edited by WaveFunctionP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, WaveFunctionP said:

v 1.4.1 - KSP v1.2 Support
- Fixed ScienceData signature

Awaiting approval from Curse.

edit: Should be available now.

This update was brought to you by Mr. S K. Thank you for your donation.

Can't see it on CKAN yet. Gonna be there too? (Pretty please!). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good man. Ta. 

I can't imagine a new playthru without this mod now. GG. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:) - Question, is ForScience! still compatible with "Science - Full reward!"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Avera9eJoe said:

:) - Question, is ForScience! still compatible with "Science - Full reward!"?

I don't know. I don't use that mod. If its not doing anything nutty with way science works, it should be fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, WaveFunctionP said:

I don't know. I don't use that mod. If its not doing anything nutty with way science works, it should be fine.

Well, it makes science experiments yield 100% reward for it's biome/instance instead of partial science. You could say it's doing something nutty :/

Edited by Avera9eJoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me it works. But ia also have a mod to yield me 100% reward (not for transmitting only collecting), so I can't confim this problem. They both work nicly together for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the latest ckan is not allowing me to update dmagicorbitalsciences because it says

Quote

The following inconsistencies were found:
- DMagicOrbitalScience conflicts with ForScience.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How does this mod behave in regards to taking multiple copies of the same experiment for the additional science value?

Surface samples, materials bay, and mystery goo can all be performed multiple times, whether you've transmitted the results, previously recovered them on Kerbin, or simply taken the data out of the experiment (or stored the sample in the ship and gone back for another). If you have multiple objects that can contain experiment results, like a command pod, hitchhiker container, or the new dedicated science container part, you can store one copy of each experiment in each different part, and when you recover the vessel, you receive the full amount for the first copy and the additional bonus science award for each extra copy, with each award being a certain fraction of the previous award).

Because you cannot store multiple copies of such experiments in the same part, due to the duplicates simply getting discarded, the only way to do this on a single trip is normally to collect the first results, store them, re-run the experiment, collect those results, and store them in a different part (or for a probe, just bring along multiple experiment modules so that no collection and resetting is required).

With this mod automatically running experiments and collecting results, how would it handle a situation where I manually run (for example) a materials bay a second time? Would it recognize that the duplicate results would be lost and store them in a different science results container, would it leave them in the experiment, or would it collect them and overwrite the existing copy in the part it wants to store all the results in?

Also, if I load up a vessel which already contains more than one copy of an experiment in different parts, will FS try to consolidate those experiments into a single part (resulting in loss of the duplicates)? Similarly, if I take multiple surface samples and stash them in different parts before re-entering the vessel (or stash the first in a science box and then board the command pod with the second), the same question applies?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
5 hours ago, flatbear said:

the latest ckan is not allowing me to update dmagicorbitalsciences because it says

 

I made same question in Dmagic's thread. The incompatibility directive comes from his mod. But I haven't found such incompatibility. To upgrade I simply move forScience folder from gamedata before open Ckan. Install upgrades and move forScience folder back to gamedata. it's boring but works..

 

@Tallinu I don't know exactly how the mod works but you can use a mod called "science full reward" to get all science in one shot and simplify science gathering. I have installed both and it works fine for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, bice said:

@Tallinu I don't know exactly how the mod works but you can use a mod called "science full reward" to get all science in one shot and simplify science gathering. I have installed both and it works fine for me. 

Eh, I always just saw getting more science for running those experiments again as a minor challenge to be met, particularly when designing probes -- it's another advantage of manned missions (being able to get multiple results without needing redundant science parts). And it makes sense that you would want multiple samples to study, it's just a nuisance that the base game allows you to collect as many different experiments as you want in a single container *except* when they match, it won't just say "Hey, this contains TWO of this one and that one," even though you *can* bring two (or more) of them back by putting them in different parts... It's a silly restriction that makes no sense since it can be worked around so easily, just like it makes no sense to have to take the crew report out of your command pod in order to take another crew report, even though you're just putting it *right back in*... and how transmitted data is worth less than bringing the readings home, even for experiments where there's no physical test subject to perform a detailed lab study on (I'm looking at you, 2HOT & co.)

Anyway, I could test FS's behavior myself under those circumstances, it would just take enough time to run a mission to somewhere I haven't already studied, which could have been wasted if it turned out to cause undesired behavior. And someone might already know the answer before I get to it. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I've discovered that FS does not play well with attempting to store multiple copies of experiments. For an easy example, right click on a science box and use the option which makes it collect data out of other parts. FS immediately re-runs all experiments (because they are no longer present in its preferred command module), and then starts grabbing experiment data out of every other part on the ship, including the science storage compartment you just moved the previous results into, resulting in a whole bunch of duplicates being created and discarded (even for results like materials bay and goo, and presumably surface samples as well, though I haven't specifically tested those yet).

Perhaps FS could be programmed to explicitly ignore the contents of the science storage containers? Better yet would be to test whether a certain result is already present in the pod it wants to move results into. It's obviously capable of doing something like that since it isn't constantly re-running experiments which have already been run. It just needs to perform those tests when moving results around as well, and not move them if they're the same.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FS stores collects and stores all data to a single location. This is so that the users always knows where his data is located. I'm not overly concerned about collecting multiple data to multiple storage containers because a) that is a fairly niche use case, b) FS already makes science so easy it is already arguably cheating, and c) if you want full science, there are very simple MM configs to do just that.

This mod is purposefully as simple and consistent as possible. I made a conscious choice to try to remove tedium and complexity. There is a reason that there are only three states to the mod and one button. On (green), off (red), not applicable (missing).

I know I'm not very charismatic like the popular youtubers, but I think I covered everything you need to know to operate FS in the video, including multivessel behaviors.

On another note, DMagic uses special experiment modules which do not conform to the stock behaviors. He does this to add more complex behaviors to his parts. There is nothing wrong with this, but FS does not support them. I know it is not the most popular things to say, but I've been down the rabbit hole of trying to support other mods and having breaking changes every week. This mod pretty much only breaks when KSP itself changes the underlying interfaces that this mod depends on. There have many updates to KSP that didn't even break the mod. And the breaks that do happen are usually very minor edits to a couple of function signatures. This is also important because I am not paid to make this mod. I think I've gotten like $25 over the years that this mod has been in service. I loved making it, and I love the game, but I simply can not devote a ton of time to development without financial backing. One of the reason this mod was updated so promptly was because of a donation. So, I felt obligated to updated it asap. I have other projects that I work on as well. If someone wanted to support a ForScienceAllTheThings! version that supported every feature and mod imaginable with ongoing donations that would be another thing.

One of the main reasons why players want a mod manager like ckan is because mod authors are always breaking each others stuff and the constant updating gets old after a while. At least, it did for me. I didn't want FS to be one of those mods that breaks when you sneeze in its general vicinity. I know its not fancy to not have a bunch of gizmos and widgets, but I think it is OK to focus on doing one thing really well, and I think FS does a fairly great job at what it does.

Edited by WaveFunctionP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for keeping up work on this mod @WaveFunctionP! I think I speak for a few people when I say that ForScience really makes career mode a whole lot more enjoyable. It's simple and to the point and that is how it should be.

There are other mods out there that do something similar, maybe more, maybe less. This is the one I enjoy, and this is the one I use.

Thanks buddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

I would like to add my thanks for this mod - it frees me to concentrate on what I like to do in game.

I have found an issue with ships with multiple containers or probe cores. The mod automatically collects all science to one place. It's impossible to then transfer it out to somewhere else (or more accurately the science is instantly re-transferred back on any attempt). This was somewhat of a problem when my Duna/Ike mission docked at my Kerbin space station and all 130 of my experiments transferred into my docking tug and refused to leave! I eventually figured out I could click the icon to temporarily disable the mod, transfer everything back to my lander, undock, then re-enable the mod.

What I would love, but I suspect is impossible is for the mod to also automatically collect EVA data when available. I do have to remember to EVA every time I see new science collected.

Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 30 Октябрь 2016 г. at 10:11 AM, WaveFunctionP said:

a) that is a fairly niche use case

No. No, it is not. I always made landers with multiple crew pods just to be able to cram more data. And since KSP has "Experiment Storage Unit", I believe, I'm not the only one who used the same ridiculous strategy.

On 30 Октябрь 2016 г. at 10:11 AM, WaveFunctionP said:

b) FS already makes science so easy it is already arguably cheating

Nope. It just does what the game was supposed to do from the beginning. Just like other modders you are making it playable. Although I think, it would be more fair to have indicators showing when there is an opportunity to collect more data, but this will do too.

On 30 Октябрь 2016 г. at 10:11 AM, WaveFunctionP said:

c) if you want full science, there are very simple MM configs to do just that.

I might want to have MORE science, but I think it's reasonable to carry a whole bunch of science stuff to milk zones dry of data.


Now closer to the point.

I just lost a couple of surface samples and goo reviews because the mod pulled them from a storage unit and trashed them since there already were copies in a command pod. It also ruins not re-runnable experiments by pulling data from the part while you activate it just to check up.

I appreciate your work. Really, I do. But the mod is only half-done. I understand, that you don't want to spend a lot of time developing it, and as far as I don't like to think instead of others, especially when they expect to be paid for it I'll just give you a quick hint how to improve the mod:
If I turned it off, I expect it to stay that way until I need it again - make it togglable or turned off by default. Those experiments I lost were ruined when I switched back to vessel from the space canter and mod turned itself On automatically.
Second but just a bit more complicated addition - automatically turn off mod when not re-runnable experiment activated.
It's supposed to be way easier than making a complicated algorithm for storing results in different containers. Or establishing preferences for storing order. Or forcing it to wait for a decision about storing or resetting unrerunnable experiments.

I really hope you'll do something about it. And thanks for your work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Mitrill said:

I appreciate your work. Really, I do. But the mod is only half-done.

The only thing that's missing is,either support for blizzy's toolbar or function for hiding the icon.Otherwise,everything is working as intended,is simple as it gets and that's why i like it.
If you want more complicated version of automatic science gathering,you could browse the forum and find it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.