-MM-

[1.3.0] Closed Loop Life Support

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Closed Loop Life Support (CLLS) is a simple life support mod which aims at simulating a small, self-contained system for keeping Kerbals alive during long voyages through space. It adds a new resource "LifeSupport" which is consumed by Kerbals at a rate of one unit per day. If your crew runs out of life support they will die. To prevent this dire fate, this mod adds new life support containers to increase the maximum mission time as well as life support generators, which will allow you to create self sufficient ships and stations, provided you have enough electricity.

 

dpBAMBW.png

 

 

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Features

  • Kerbals will require life support to stay alive (1 unit per 6 hour day).
  • All parts with crew capacity will hold a small amount of life support (3 units per crew-slot).
  • Kerbals on EVA will take 1 unit of life support from the ship and put it back once they return, giving you a maximum EVA duration of 1 day.
  • Kerbals which have run out of life support will die.
  • Life support can be extended with life support storage containers.
  • For longer missions life support generators can be used to generate life support. This allows the creation of fully self-sufficient interplanetary ships and bases.
  • The production-rate and thus the energy consumption of life support generators can be tweaked to avoid wasting resources.
  • The life support usage and production is tracked for all ships, even in the background and during time warp.

 

Technical Details

This mod keeps track of the life support values of all vessels, even those which are not currently active. This is done by caching their last known consumption / production levels as well as their remaining resources. When an event is triggered that changes the game-world (like launching a ship, modifying an (inactive) vessel, saving the game or running out of life support), all vessels are updated. This should make it compatible with other mods which manipulate inactive vessels (like KSTS) while consuming only very little system resources.

Edited by -MM-

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How is this different or better than the popular USI Life Support and Thunder Aerospace Life Support mods?

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How is this different or better than the popular USI Life Support and Thunder Aerospace Life Support mods?

What is Ioncross then, chopped liver?

:kiss:

Edited by Starwaster
insert smiley to lighten the tone

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How is this different or better than the popular USI Life Support and Thunder Aerospace Life Support mods?

Hello Krakenfour, compared to TAC Life Support this is a lot simpler and less complex (less components and resources required). I would indeed compare it to USI or Interstellar Flight Life Support. However (as far as I know) USI does no background processing of vessels not currently loaded into the scene and ISF has no mechanics for replenishing life support. With this mod you can build a station which you can leave in orbit for years, as long as you balance consumption and production.

As for Ioncross, I am slightly embarrassed to admit that I don't know about that mod :blush:

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;1920847']Hello Krakenfour' date=' compared to TAC Life Support this is a lot simpler and less complex (less components and resources required). I would indeed compare it to USI or Interstellar Flight Life Support. However (as far as I know) USI does no background processing of vessels not currently loaded into the scene and ISF has no mechanics for replenishing life support. With this mod you can build a station which you can leave in orbit for years, as long as you balance consumption and production.

As for Ioncross, I am slightly embarrassed to admit that I don't know about that mod :blush:

That's interesting.

How about resource gathering. Can I extract stock Ore and do something useful with it in relation to this mod?

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MM are you running on rails if so, you know the amount of lag you will get with a bigger fleet ?

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;1920847']However (as far as I know) USI does no background processing of vessels not currently loaded into the scene and ISF has no mechanics for replenishing life support. With this mod you can build a station which you can leave in orbit for years' date=' as long as you balance consumption and production.

[/quote']

It does absolutely do background processing. It's built on that requirement.

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;1920847']

As for Ioncross' date=' I am slightly embarrassed to admit that I don't know about that mod :blush:[/quote']

the sad thing about Ioncross is it's ability to be totally reconfigurable in a way no other life support mod is that I've seen. You could practically make a whole new life support mod from it with config files alone.

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Testing around with it, and i really like it :)

Few Suggestions / Ideas so far:

I would love to see that LifeSupport also drains some ElectricCharge, not just the activated Generator...

Oh and some smaller, less efficient Generator would help a lot. How about "stock" Fuel Cells also generate life support besides electric charge?

Call me sadistic, but in my opinion starved out kerbals should die, instead of hibernate (maybe a config would be handy) :D

Edit: Toolbar icon in Map View?

Edit: Fuel Cells in MM


// Fuel Cell now also convert LifeSupport ( 1 per day ):
@PART[FuelCell]
{
@MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]
{
OUTPUT_RESOURCE
{
ResourceName = LifeSupport
Ratio = 0.0000463
DumpExcess = false
}
}

RESOURCE
{
name = LifeSupport
amount = 1
maxAmount = 1
}
}

// Fuel Cell Array now also convert LifeSupport ( 3 per day ):
@PART[FuelCellArray]
{
@MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]
{
OUTPUT_RESOURCE
{
ResourceName = LifeSupport
Ratio = 0.0001389
DumpExcess = false
}
}

RESOURCE
{
name = LifeSupport
amount = 1
maxAmount = 1
}
}

Edited by StainX

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That's interesting.

How about resource gathering. Can I extract stock Ore and do something useful with it in relation to this mod?

Hello again Krakenfour,

MM are you running on rails if so, you know the amount of lag you will get with a bigger fleet ?

Hello nismobg, I'm running the calculations only twice per real time second, not every physics-tick, even during time warp. So far I haven't noticed any negative impacts.

It does absolutely do background processing. It's built on that requirement.

As far as I remember USI will save the timestamp for each vessel at which the life support was last calculated and only update once the vessel is loaded again. I might be wrong though.

Does it pause timewarp if a vessel is getting low on life support?

No, but if you don't plan ahead there is little you can do to intervene anyway. If you want to let a vessel or base unattended for an extended period of time you should give them a life support generator.

Testing around with it, and i really like it :)

Few Suggestions / Ideas so far:

I would love to see that LifeSupport also drains some ElectricCharge, not just the activated Generator...

Oh and some smaller, less efficient Generator would help a lot. How about "stock" Fuel Cells also generate life support besides electric charge?

Call me sadistic, but in my opinion starved out kerbals should die, instead of hibernate (maybe a config would be handy) :D

Edit: Toolbar icon in Map View?

Hello StainX, I've also thought about letting life support use electric charge but the problem is that power generation by solar panels only works properly on active vessels. The power consumption of the reactor stops (like any other module on your ship) when you switch the vessel. But I think it would indeed be a great idea to add a smaller generator and maybe push the bigger one further back in the tech tree.

As for letting kerbals die, I will look into adding an config-option. I will also add the toolbar icon in the map view, I must have missed that. Thank you for your ideas.

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I really enjoy the "simple" design of the life support. One Resource, and generators for that, awesome! And no bugs whatsoever!

Thanks for the effort!

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After a long time I finally updated this mod to make it compatible with KSP 1.2.1 (see download link in the first post). Additionally I did a lot of refactoring to make the background processing more efficient (updates are now triggered by game-events) and to make it compatible with other mods which might change vessel states (like my very own "Kerbal Space Transport System"). And finally I also added new textures to the life support container and generator.

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a suggestion, maybe integrate a "difficulty" setting" into KSP (or a setting into your mod) so we can adjust the consumption rate of both Electricity and LS.

Also how does this handle high Time Warp? usually in high time warp electricity drops to zero and if used for prolonged time LS would get depleted and then disaster :)

 

Edited by dtoxic

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I am curious about the decision to make it a closed loop system.  Other LS mods are lossless, which introduce interesting gameplay mechanics as you cannot ever last forever without supply runs or some IRSU food growing component.

If I can simply slap on a few parts to make for an infinite closed loop food system it doesn't seem much different from playing without any LS, with the exception of having slightly bigger/heavier rockets.

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It's simple and valid as a KSP mod but,

To be proper closed loop, I envision his system is supposed to encompass some sort of: 1. hydroponic artificial grow light algae/plant components to produce O2 and edible fruits and vegetables .  2. Waste recycle systems to reclaim H2O for consumption and CO2 for plant growth gas and Kerbal organic waste for plant/animal nutrient compost.  3. Small animal (high reproduction/low space care i.e. worms, crickets, small fish...etc) incubation and harvesting system to provide dietary protein requirements.

  To run all this with only an electrical requirement would not be entirely unbelievable but would probably need quite a bit of components (at least for humans) and require quite a bit of crew attention but these are Kerbals, may be they need less.

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6 hours ago, dtoxic said:

a suggestion, maybe integrate a "difficulty" setting" into KSP (or a setting into your mod) so we can adjust the consumption rate of both Electricity and LS.

Also how does this handle high Time Warp? usually in high time warp electricity drops to zero and if used for prolonged time LS would get depleted and then disaster :)

To change the difficulty you can edit the config-file for the generator or add a new module manager file to set different production / consumption values.

But the energy consumption during time warp is an interesting point: Currently the requested energy per physics-tick scales with the warp-factor (for active vessels), which means you will need very large batteries to survive the higher time-warp levels. But even then it can get hazardous because your vessel might rotate out of its optimal position to get the maximum amount of sunshine. I will take a look at this for the next release. It is probably wise to simply disable the electricity consumption on time-warp >= 100x.

 

6 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

I am curious about the decision to make it a closed loop system.  Other LS mods are lossless, which introduce interesting gameplay mechanics as you cannot ever last forever without supply runs or some IRSU food growing component.

If I can simply slap on a few parts to make for an infinite closed loop food system it doesn't seem much different from playing without any LS, with the exception of having slightly bigger/heavier rockets.

You are on point with your last sentence :D, the goal of this mod is to provide the player with just a very simple life support system. But to elaborate a little bit further: Until you unlock the generator in the tech-tree or when you can't afford the extra weight (like on your lander), you will be constraint by the amount of life support you can bring with you. And later, on interplanetary missions, the need for the life support system will add a little bit of extra complexity / weight to your spaceship designs. If this isn't reason enough for you to use a system like this, then this mod is probably not for you and you should take a look at some of the other mods that are out there. :wink:

 

3 hours ago, jpkerman said:

It's simple and valid as a KSP mod but,

To be proper closed loop, I envision his system is supposed to encompass some sort of: 1. hydroponic artificial grow light algae/plant components to produce O2 and edible fruits and vegetables .  2. Waste recycle systems to reclaim H2O for consumption and CO2 for plant growth gas and Kerbal organic waste for plant/animal nutrient compost.  3. Small animal (high reproduction/low space care i.e. worms, crickets, small fish...etc) incubation and harvesting system to provide dietary protein requirements.

  To run all this with only an electrical requirement would not be entirely unbelievable but would probably need quite a bit of components (at least for humans) and require quite a bit of crew attention but these are Kerbals, may be they need less.

Yes, I agree. As far as I know a fully self contained system like this doesn't exist in real life, yet (see for example the failed Biosphere 2 Experiment). As it turns out the eco-system is more complex than initially thought... :wink:

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Quote

But the energy consumption during time warp is an interesting point: Currently the requested energy per physics-tick scales with the warp-factor (for active vessels), which means you will need very large batteries to survive the higher time-warp levels. But even then it can get hazardous because your vessel might rotate out of its optimal position to get the maximum amount of sunshine. I will take a look at this for the next release. It is probably wise to simply disable the electricity consumption on time-warp >= 100x.

Yeap, that's the one thing that is plaguing all of the LS Mod's (as far as i know coming straight from 0.90v, unless something drastic changed in 1.x.x versions)

but here is an idea to look into, rather than disable the consumption in high time warp, why not switch to the "catch up" mode when in high time warp?

This way, we still need to plan ahead for longer trips and not just abuse the "magic of warp".

That being said....i hope it;s easy to implement into the code,that way we got both of the good things (i think :D )

Nice mod btw! :)

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Installed this mod and I like the simplicity. It's a good way to require users to take LS into consideration without requiring a ton of babysitting. I'm trying to work out the balance on the Generator. It looks like it uses 50EC/sec = 3000EC/min. This sounds really high. I realize I can tweak it, but before I started messing with your designs though I was hoping to understand why it's so high. An LKO station would need something like 45000EC to ensure continued functionality when in Kerbin's shadow. That's a LOT of batteries.

If you feel like you want that serious of a cost for full closed-loop, then it might be interesting to add a recycling device that will slow life support depletion with a lower energy footprint. Right now there's no middle ground between carrying a ton of food or carrying lots and lots of batteries.

thanks again for your efforts!

Edited by tjt

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Hello, I've just uploaded a new version of CLLS (1.1) in which I've made a few tweaks to the electricity-consumption during time-warp and added a second, bigger generator. During higher time-warp factors the consumption per physics-tick will now be capped at 25% of your vessel's battery capacity. This way you should not immediately drop to zero electricity at time warp 1000x but if you don't have a high enough production-value via solar power or RTGs, your lights still will go out.

And regarding the points made by tjt: I agree, the consumption-rate of the generator seems a little high at first, but keep in mind that you can adjust the production-rate and thus the consumption during your flight. Additionally if you were to build a base on the mun which is in the dark for much longer or, even better, if you were to mount an expedition to the outer planets, relying on solar power and batteries won't cut it. In situations like these you'd probably have to build vessels and bases which include nuclear reactors (like provided by "Near Future Electrical") to provide a reliable amount of electricity. And to be honest, I kinda like the idea of more massive, nuclear powered interplanetary vessels :D

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I maintain a thread: 

and was just made aware of this mod.

I'm going to add this soon

 

 

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53 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Does this mod use the Community Resource Pack?

No it doesn't. It has its own resource definition. It might be the same definition as in Interstellar Flight Inc.'s LS.

Edited by JadeOfMaar

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Howdy. I don't know how closely you monitor your github repo, but I've opened an issue: https://github.com/mmoench/CLLS/issues/1

The short of it is kerbals don't seem to be initialized with one unit of life support when they launch causing them to immediately die in some situations. In the report, I suggested they should start with one unit of life support since they've undoubtedly filled their bellies, quenched their thirst, and prepared their spacesuit canisters before launching.

Thanks.

Edited by doktorstick

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