Jump to content

[1.3.0] Closed Loop Life Support


Recommended Posts

On 4.1.2017 at 7:41 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

...
and was just made aware of this mod.
I'm going to add this soon

Thank you, that is greatly appreciated.

20 hours ago, doktorstick said:

Howdy. I don't know how closely you monitor your github repo, but I've opened an issue: https://github.com/mmoench/CLLS/issues/1

The short of it is kerbals don't seem to be initialized with one unit of life support when they launch causing them to immediately die in some situations. In the report, I suggested they should start with one unit of life support since they've undoubtedly filled their bellies, quenched their thirst, and prepared their spacesuit canisters before launching.

Thanks.

Hm, I see. I guess the problem here is that you are using "TakeCommand", which lets you spawn Kerbals outside of a command-part. The way this mod works at this time is that the Kerbal will get equipped with the life-support resources when he goes on EVA, which is why your Kerbals are dying. I will take a look at this and try to find a way to let Kerbals spawn with full life-support.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/6/2017 at 2:54 PM, -MM- said:

The way this mod works at this time is that the Kerbal will get equipped with the life-support resources when he goes on EVA...

Unrelated to my specific problem, how do the life-support resources work when there are multiple kerbals and one goes for EVA? Does the EVA-kerbal take 1/n of the resources (i.e., three kerbals with 0.3 resources; EVA kerbal would take 0.1 with her)?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 10.1.2017 at 9:54 PM, doktorstick said:

Unrelated to my specific problem, how do the life-support resources work when there are multiple kerbals and one goes for EVA? Does the EVA-kerbal take 1/n of the resources (i.e., three kerbals with 0.3 resources; EVA kerbal would take 0.1 with her)?

 

At the moment the Kerbal which is going on EVA will take the maximum amount of life support from the ship he can fit into his suit (1 unit). If you have only 0.5 left in your vessel with multiple Kerbals, they will die when someone goes out for a spacewalk. This does not seem to be very fair, I will try to address this in the next update.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, -MM- said:

At the moment the Kerbal which is going on EVA will take the maximum amount of life support from the ship he can fit into his suit (1 unit). If you have only 0.5 left in your vessel with multiple Kerbals, they will die when someone goes out for a spacewalk. This does not seem to be very fair, I will try to address this in the next update.

Cool. Here's another corner-case. If I have a Command MkI (3 days worth) and a CLLS tank below the coupler and I eject the CLLS tank, the command pod doesn't refill before ejection. For instance, I now have the pod with 0.70 / 3.00 support with my debris with 49.96 / 50. I separated after about three days in space.

Methinks the astronauts would be smart enough to transfer as much life support to their pod first. Though they are Kerbals...

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm about to try out this mod for myself. It goes well towards my tendency for nuclear reactors and high EC handling, and also provides a gameplay feature that I've hoped for.

@doktorstick Does fuel priority work with these LS parts then? Have you tried it? Otherwise, try locking the command pod's supply and have a radial tank attached to use as buffer when you stage, then unlock the command pod's supply.

@-MM- @MatterBeam @Tyko I think I have an idea to share with you lot. For the request of giving Ore a purpose here how about a recycler part that catalyzes Ore to generate LS; For a middleground between loads of batteries and loads of 2.5m converters for tankage: add LS capacity to stock Ore tanks, inline batteries or certain small or medium fuel tanks, or make parts like them with the CLLS symbol. Maybe the large fuel cell array part can be the small(est) recycler... but to keep some challenge don't add recycler functionality to crew parts. Leave the option open for players to forget or decline to install a recycler.

Edited by JadeOfMaar
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I'm about to try out this mod for myself. It goes well towards my tendency for nuclear reactors and high EC handling, and also provides a gameplay feature that I've hoped for.

@doktorstick Does fuel priority work with these LS parts then? Have you tried it? Otherwise, try locking the command pod's supply and have a radial tank attached to use as buffer when you stage, then unlock the command pod's supply.

@-MM- @MatterBeam @Tyko I think I have an idea to share with you lot. For the request of giving Ore a purpose here how about a recycler part that catalyzes Ore to generate LS; For a middleground between loads of batteries and loads of 2.5m converters for tankage: add LS capacity to stock Ore tanks, inline batteries or certain small or medium fuel tanks, or make parts like them with the CLLS symbol. Maybe the large fuel cell array part can be the small(est) recycler... but to keep some challenge don't add recycler functionality to crew parts. Leave the option open for players to forget or decline to install a recycler.

LOL...Ore as Activated Charcoal...huh? that's an interesting approach. I think the biggest issue is that this would only benefit ground bases - otherwise you have ships carrying ore around to act as catalzyer which doesn't make any sense from a mass efficiency standpoint. if you want Ore to be part of the cycle, then I think it would be better to identify the component in Ore that's necessary for LS and then allow that to be refined from Ore or carried in it's refined state in tanks on the ships

Edited by Tyko
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Tyko I had surface bases in mind, indeed. It sounds good to me alright to use Ore to dampen the normal EC demand when you're just starting out colonizing Mun or Minmus and then you end up on their night sides. In orbit Ore can still be useful. It's a matter of how low-tech your station is and how long it's on the dark side of whatever it's orbiting. Yea, Ore catalysis in orbit would be virtually useless beyond Duna and mass-efficiency does take a nose dive. It ultimately depends on how efficient the OP decides to make it.

Edited by JadeOfMaar
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Tyko I had surface bases in mind, indeed. It sounds good to me alright to use Ore to dampen the normal EC demand when you're just starting out colonizing Mun or Minmus and then you end up on their night sides. In orbit Ore can still be useful. It's a matter of how low-tech your station is and how long it's on the dark side of whatever it's orbiting. Yea, Ore catalysis in orbit would be virtually useless beyond Duna and mass-efficiency does take a nose dive. It ultimately depends on how efficient the OP decides to make it.

I just went for coffee and considered this further... The big benefit of CLLS is how simple it is. Adding any additional resource requirements jeopardizes that benefit. For the sake of simplicity, I'd prefer that recyclers only consume EC. I'm kind of thinking there should be three options:

  • Carry more LS - For shorter trips
  • use Recyclers to reduce LS consumption by consuming EC
    • relatively light, relatively low EC requirements - balance them so that they become a better bargain than carrying LS for trips longer than 30-60 days
    • For moderate length trips to long trips.
    • Likely used in conjunction with Generators for really long trips
  • use Generators to produce additional LS.
    • Heavy with higher EC requirements - balance them so they become a better bargain than Recyclers for trips longer than 6 months
    • For long trips
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@doktorstick Does fuel priority work with these LS parts then? Have you tried it? Otherwise, try locking the command pod's supply and have a radial tank attached to use as buffer when you stage, then unlock the command pod's supply.

I have not. I'll keep that in mind next time the situation arises. Thanks for the idea.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tyko said:

I just went for coffee and considered this further... The big benefit of CLLS is how simple it is. Adding any additional resource requirements jeopardizes that benefit. For the sake of simplicity, I'd prefer that recyclers only consume EC.

You have a serious point. I got carried away with my idea and have already threatened this mod's concept. Please disregard my suggestion(s) about Ore @-MM-

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...

Hi @-MM- I started a modded career with this and am getting some weird behavior in the LS readout. 2 things- I should have 3 days of supplies, and every time I EVA or the situation changes another field gets added. I can upload a modlist if you think that is an issue.

heRuhfh.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, I've just uploaded a new version of CLLS (see first post). There are no new features, I've just recompiled the mod for KSP 1.3. Additionally I've fixed a bug which caused the list of tracked vessels to fill up with Kerbals on EVA even after they've re-entered their vessel. @Waxing_Kibbous: Hopefully this also fixes the issues you were experiencing.

Edited by -MM-
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 months later...

Something I thought I would point out is, if you are using EC to make Life Support then you are breaking a very fundamental law of physics which is EC carries no mass and yet it is creating a resource that has mass.
I will probably not be using the LS generators on my ships, I am instead going to pack my ships with extra supplies & use DeepFreeze mod for long missions.
I did modify the large generator to be very heavy, so it can at least fill in for a greenhouse/water production module on a station/base.

The first time I was using the small generator I thought I would still need lots of extra supplies for a trip to Duna with 5 kerbals.
But I noticed when I ran out of supplies that the generator would produce enough LS to keep my 5 kerbals alive forever... It would get depleted and then produce LS again, so this brings up the question:
Why use the containers of supplies when you can just put a 1.25ton generator on a ship and have the kerbals live forever? this means we are just building ships with an extra 1.25tons of weight and playing as if we didn't have the mod installed.
The only other factor being needing sunlight every 6hours... So I can only guess if you ran out of EC the generator would stop and then your kerbals would die...
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/28/2017 at 5:54 PM, Marcus Helios said:

Something I thought I would point out is, if you are using EC to make Life Support then you are breaking a very fundamental law of physics which is EC carries no mass and yet it is creating a resource that has mass.
I will probably not be using the LS generators on my ships, I am instead going to pack my ships with extra supplies & use DeepFreeze mod for long missions.

A closed loop life support system itself is impossible. And this mod intends to be ultra-simple so concerns for conservation of mass aren't a big deal. There isn't even a waste resource. The only thing for players (very basic ones, very young ones, or ones who just want a life support with next to nothing to it for whatever good reason) to concern themselves with is maintaining an EC supply either in the case of a long orbital crewed mission contract in the early-game, night time on a body with a very low rotational speed, or missions to Jool and beyond, where solar panels become useless.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 years later...
On 11/6/2017 at 4:46 AM, Marcus Helios said:

Is there a way to stop CLLS tracking every piece of debris that contains some supplies? Every rescue mission and every jettisoned stage with LS on it is being tracked in the CLLS window...

You couldn terminate the objects in the tracking station?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, the person you were attempting to help no longer visits the forum and the mod also appears to be defunct. But it was nice of you to try, @PhoenixRise86. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...