No power = no commands, even to shut off?

[moronwrocket]

Hello,

Running into a problem with my first Science Lab. I just threw on some OX-STATs and a couple of lights, and it appears that once the EC hits zero, you can't do any commands. Enable *or* disable. And so the lights and Science Lab stay on, sucking all EC, and preventing me from shutting them off.

This continues even if I EVA my scientists - the lab continues to try processing data, and my EC level does not increase. I have an OKTO installed. If I edit my quicksave to throw some extra EC into my batteries, I can control the vessel normally. When the lights and Lab are both off, I am very power positive.

I thought in previous versions if you were power starved, consumers were disabled until you were power positive again. Is this new behavior?

I am currently not running any mods such as Remote Tech that might cause similar behavior:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program>ckan list

KSP found at C:/Program Files (x86)/Steam/steamapps/common/Kerbal Space Program

KSP Version: 1.0.2

Installed Modules:

- ContractConfigurator 1.0.4

- ContractConfigurator-AnomalySurveyor 1.1.2

- ContractsWindowPlus 5.1

- CrewManifest 0.6.0

- DockingPortAlignmentIndicator 6.2

- KerbalAlarmClock v3.3.1.1

- KerbalConstructionTime 1.1.6

- KerbalEngineerRedux 1.0.16.6

- LandingHeight 1.4

- LightsOut 0.1.3

- ModuleManager 2.6.3

- PreciseNode 1.1.3

- RCSLandAid 2.4

- StockBugFixModules v1.0.2b

- Toolbar 1.7.9

- TransferWindowPlanner v1.3.0.1

- WaypointManager 2.3.2

Legend: -: Up to date. X: Incompatible. ^: Upgradable. ?: Unknown

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program>

It's a real bummer that my science lab Mk 1 won't be able to function. I'll have to refly it with more panels. Can we have EC consumption information added to the VAB window?

- - - Updated - - -

Here is an album showing the problem.

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[Bill Phil]

You just need more power. See if the deployable panels work...

[Tex_NL]

You could try to switch off the lights during EVA. That might save you enough energy to regain control.

I ran into a similar problem with my orbital lab. Fortunately I had spare docking ports and was able to dock some extra solar panels to it.

You just need more power. See if the deployable panels work...

Where on his craft do you see any deployable panels?

[Laie]

You need a *working* command module to issue any orders. A manned pod without power could still start/stop things, but a probe core requires power to work.

As has been said, kerbals on EVA should be able to shut down consumers. They could also push your lab so you get more sun on the panels.

However, that lab needs 5 power/second. From it's looks, I guess that your Lab will barely have enough power under ideal conditions, and as soon as conditions are no longer ideal, you're out of luck.

[ZooNamedGames]

Yeah xenon probes have the same problem- you throttle up and they burn up EC. If you burn too much and run out of power then it keeps trying to fire as energy comes in but there's not enough to maintain thrust- so you lack the ability to shut it off and you can't time warp it off since it's still accelerating. That has been a major problem for probes for ages. As a minor error in your xenon burn and ruin and entire mission which could've taken hours to prepare... Quicksaving is always key here...

Hence why I always have hyperedit installed. It allows you to edit your fuel levels without having to open the persistance file. It prevents mission enders like yours or on long term burns by xenon.

[Skorpychan]

No docking port either. Send up something with big solar panels, a fuel cell, and a Klaw to assist?

[ZooNamedGames]

No docking port either. Send up something with big solar panels, a fuel cell, and a Klaw to assist?

Looks like his game is on a career mode- he might not have access to those parts.

However if he were to send me his save file (with all listed mods) then I could make him something to help assist with your issue.

[Sirrobert]

A tip in the future: there is 1 thing you CAN still do without power. Lock and unlock resource flow. So you can lock a full battery. And if you run out of power, you unlock it. This turns it into backup power, which you use to turn off the power drain. Than recharge all batterys, relock the backup battery, and continue as normal

[moronwrocket]

Turning the lights off while on EVA is what I tried to do at first, but I was unable to - I thought that was possible with .90, but maybe I am mis-remembering. I did try in a sandbox - engineers aren't able to turn lights on or off externally either, and scientists and engineers can both open solar panels externally.

I knew the mobile lab didn't count as a pod, hence the OKTO on it, but I was surprised that I wasn't able to turn off the lab itself when low on power. Even when I EVA'd my two scientists, the lab would not shut down - that's probably a bug. I tested some things in a sandbox:

* Without scientists you can activate research, and even though you are not researching, you are still losing the 5 EC/s. Seems like a bug to me.

* While on Kerbin's surface at night @ zero EC, I could not activate/deactivate anything. I could enable/disable EC flow from batteries at least.

* While on Kerbin's surface in the day time @ zero EC I could activate/deactivate items with 3 OX-STATs, but only if I started with some EC - after a long night @ zero EC I could not activate/deactivate items. Probably a weird rounding error?

* When I varied up and down high timewarps, the EC on-board would vary up and down, up to +40, while it should be all negative.

I'm playing with KCT on Career normal, so redesigning it with deployable panels (or docking ports) wasn't available at the time this was complete and ready for launch. It has parachutes all around so I will cheat a little power, enough to deorbit, and relaunch with a new design.

Definitely something that could be added to the Engineer's Report: "Producers minus consumers of power is negative, add MOAR POWER!" or somesuch, along with listing the power requirements for the Mobile Lab in the VAB card.

@ZooNamedGames - Thanks for the offer, but since this is at Kerbin and I have plenty of ./, I'll deorbit and relaunch with a v2.

@Sirrobert - A good tip, and one that I'd gotten out of the habit of due to my 0.90 game with Remote Tech. I'll keep an eye out to disable probe's on-board battery moving forwards.

Mmmmmkay, here's a weird exploit one can do:

Disable one battery, select that battery plus a couple that are not disabled (these will show a few hundreths of an EC), and transfer EC to the disabled battery. Was able to recharge my pod that way.

Edited May 9, 2015 by moronwrocket

[Juicy]

I had the same issue today, and through some quirk, I managed to fill up my batteries by speeding up the game to the maximum setting. The batteries were basically instantly full. For now, this might occasionally work. Can't guarantee it will work forever though, nor that it would work in every case.

[moogoob]

Solar panels got hit with realism pretty hard in 1.0.2. (Or was it 1.0.1?) Ox-stats are often no longer enough to power resource-hungry applications with just a few of them scattered about like we used to do. The emergency power method is pretty useful - I do like that we have to take running out of power into account, and engineer workarounds.

[KerbMav]

Mmmmmkay, here's a weird exploit one can do:

Disable one battery, select that battery plus a couple that are not disabled (these will show a few hundreths of an EC), and transfer EC to the disabled battery. Was able to recharge my pod that way.

Does not feel like an exploit to me. More like "rerouting emergency power to the secondary energy grid through the flux coils " /startrekbabble