seanmcdougall

[1.1.2] Take Command - Launch Kerbals in External Command Seats [v1.4.1 - May 6, 2016]

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I'll take a look at this, I've already picked up 2 of his already 

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1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I'll take a look at this, I've already picked up 2 of his already 

No Guarantees, it seems like there is a significant bug somewhere.  It will probably be a few weeks before I get around to this

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1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

No Guarantees, it seems like there is a significant bug somewhere.  It will probably be a few weeks before I get around to this

Total speculation but might be due to how the mod worked with using an IVA on a part that didn't have a kerbal in it... the Probe Control Room mod that @icedown is trying to revive faces a similar problem.

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On 10/13/2016 at 8:17 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

No Guarantees, it seems like there is a significant bug somewhere.  It will probably be a few weeks before I get around to this

What type of bug, any more details?

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1 hour ago, Ruedii said:

What type of bug, any more details?

Read the entire thread above.

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Hi

On 10/13/2016 at 8:17 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

No Guarantees, it seems like there is a significant bug somewhere.  It will probably be a few weeks before I get around to this

Is it possible to code a work-around for now? Like the mod wouldn't be "activated" in career mode, but would work in sandbox mode?

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It's not a matter of career vs sandbox.  There is a flaw in the basic code, or at least, it's worse in 1.2.  I put a ship with 2 kerbals on top, when physics activated, the ship started dancing.

Sorry

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On 10/13/2016 at 8:17 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

No Guarantees, it seems like there is a significant bug somewhere.  It will probably be a few weeks before I get around to this

You've been a hero since 1.2 came out with updating mods, we appreciate it. I'm actually really tempted to make this mod's mechanic a feedback issue on the tracker, many mods get the old "should be stock" but this is a pretty obvious one.

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Just now, Waxing_Kibbous said:

You've been a hero since 1.2 came out with updating mods, we appreciate it. I'm actually really tempted to make this mod's mechanic a feedback issue on the tracker, many mods get the old "should be stock" but this is a pretty obvious one.

To a certain extent, the issues with the mod are related to the way that KSP works internally.

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On 10/19/2016 at 4:07 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

To a certain extent, the issues with the mod are related to the way that KSP works internally.

Yeah, it may be better to code an entire new mod to replace this one than simply update this one.   Maybe there are new coding methods that might work.

Apparently the code for command seats are like docking ports, using the kerbal as a part.  I wonder if it's theoretically possible to put the kerbal in from the start.

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I spent some time with Module Manager, hoping to get a solution that way but without luck. 

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3 hours ago, Ruedii said:

Yeah, it may be better to code an entire new mod to replace this one than simply update this one.   Maybe there are new coding methods that might work.

Apparently the code for command seats are like docking ports, using the kerbal as a part.  I wonder if it's theoretically possible to put the kerbal in from the start.

It's pretty simple, if the seat is simply treated like a command pod from the beginning, just copy the ModuleCommand module from the single command pod in and try it

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6 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

It's pretty simple, if the seat is simply treated like a command pod from the beginning, just copy the ModuleCommand module from the single command pod in and try it

wait, are you saying its possible to make the command seat part spawnable by simply creating a module manager config for it?

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8 minutes ago, inigma said:

wait, are you saying its possible to make the command seat part spawnable by simply creating a module manager config for it?

I've tried it every which way I could find and it didn't work. 

If you take the MODULE out of a capsule config and put into the config for the command seat then you get a Kerbal in the seat but he is not visible and you can't get him out of the seat, though you can use "Transfer" to move him into a pod. Looks like there is some code needed too, hence the original mod - which I'd love to see fixed. 

Edited by Foxster

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10 hours ago, Foxster said:

I've tried it every which way I could find and it didn't work. 

If you take the MODULE out of a capsule config and put into the config for the command seat then you get a Kerbal in the seat but he is not visible and you can't get him out of the seat, though you can use "Transfer" to move him into a pod. Looks like there is some code needed too, hence the original mod - which I'd love to see fixed. 

I suspect the method the mod used isn't working right anymore with the physics changes.

It might be better to try to find a new way to handle it. 

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I've been closely watching this discussion, as Take Command is a necessity for the revamped tech tree I've been making, because I have it that the command seat is the only way to have a "manned" craft in the early career; the actual pods and cockpits come several tech tiers later.  Without being able to spawn directly into the command seat, you're limited to only unmanned stuff...which is the intent actually, but I want to do some crazy experimental "manned" stuff too...like putting a reduced-size Flea onto a girder, attach some stubby wings and elevons, put on a command seat...and launch; very quickly you get the Juno parts and basic landing gear, enough for some primitive flying action. :)

 

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Theres A glitch. You cant see the kerbal in the command seat. But you can fix it by Getting out and getting back in.

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I've been poking around in the code, made some rebuilding and testing.

Rebuilding the code with the latest version seems to make the mod work(1.2.1), but...
The process made by the mod of transferring the kerbal to the external seat seems to generate some mystical forces. Add more seats and kerbals and you'll have a very powerful force still unknown to kerbalkind.
Changing the IF statement in line 75 of the code from vessel.HoldPhysics == false to vessel.HoldPhysics == true seems to have solved the problem, but...(again)
I don't know why this logic was made and could revive issues that were already solved. Specially since this is the first time I touched a mod so this could go very wrong at some point.

Alternative Solution:
While this mod is not fixed, I recommend to use WalkAbout to place a kerbal outside the facility and move him/her to the vessel.

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Tried too in 1.2.1 after recompilation from source. At first tests: no dancing, no kraken, nothing. Well, until i tried to place seats on a single girder segment XL :)

Placing same seats on a fuel tank or something else works nice. Don't even know what is different here.

Attempts to break:

4xEAS on Girder XL -> phantom forces

3xEAS on Girder XL with lots of space between seats -> phantom forces

4xEAS on FL-T400 -> nice

2xEAS on FL-T400 + 2xGirder XL attached to FL-T400 with EAS seats on it -> nice

6xEAS attached to 1xGirder XL attached to big S3-7200 Tank -> nice

5xEAS on 2x2 structural panel -> nice

40xEAS on S3-14400 tank attached to "Mammoth" engine -> well, it started to fall after, maybe, 5 kerbals moved to seats. Maybe because they start to have mass after that. Attaching stability enhancers helps to avoid this, no phantom forces actually.

And, also, I noticed it has ugly internal view even when empty (so interior overlay is completely broken). So, I decided to remove INTERNAL section from TakeCommand MM patch and it still works, but not ugly anymore.

 

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Would it be possible to add kerbals before or during the physics easing process? Might keep the kraken away?

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As far as I understand how it does it now, it asks kerbal to go out of internal pod-like seat into EVA and then politely asks him to board an external seat. Not sure KSP will allow doing this while physics is not yet running.

What may be source of issue is a collider it creates in a place where kerbal is ejected to make it a hatch where Kerbal exits the seat. And it can... yep, collide with something, maybe. Need to check yet what will happen if you change collider size or make something funny with it.

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9 minutes ago, ThirdOfSeven said:

As far as I understand how it does it now, it asks kerbal to go out of internal pod-like seat into EVA and then politely asks him to board an external seat. Not sure KSP will allow doing this while physics is not yet running.

What may be source of issue is a collider it creates in a place where kerbal is ejected to make it a hatch where Kerbal exits the seat. And it can... yep, collide with something, maybe. Need to check yet what will happen if you change collider size or make something funny with it.

if you change the check from vessel.HoldPhysics == false to vessel.HoldPhysics == true the transfer will happen before the physics is activated and if you remove this verification completely the transfer can happen anytime.
I've been using without it for some time and doesn't seem to have any problem while solving the phantom forces.

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