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kcs123

kcs123

Posted
Posted

You should enlist any mod you have used to build that craft.

quizTechMk1EagleCockpit is missing, don't have a clue what mod is required for that one.

With some screenshoot of FAR Static analyzis, AoA sweep between -25 and +25 AoA, at various speeds: 0.2 , 0.35, 0.6 , 0.8 , 1.0 , 1.4 , 2 , 4 mach you could get answer faster.

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bartekkru99

bartekkru99

Posted
Posted
You should enlist any mod you have used to build that craft.

quizTechMk1EagleCockpit is missing, don't have a clue what mod is required for that one.

With some screenshoot of FAR Static analyzis, AoA sweep between -25 and +25 AoA, at various speeds: 0.2 , 0.35, 0.6 , 0.8 , 1.0 , 1.4 , 2 , 4 mach you could get answer faster.

...., it looks like i've sent a wrong file. I will reupload it later, it's now 0:08 in Poland, so..

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Kitspace

Kitspace

Posted
Posted

Hello!

Just a general question on plane design.

With classic airframe subsonic transport planes what to do to smoothen out the yellow pitch moment line on the static graph? How to possibly control how steep it goes while keeping the point where it crosses zero constant and vice versa?

How to increase the stalling angle of attack? It seems to decrease with adding more stabilizer.

Thank you?

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Dentzu

Dentzu

Posted
Posted
Kerbal Flight Data is very useful for this. Moderate climb when the yellow heat warnings appear, emergency climb if they go red. I normally climb to 13,000m, level off and accelerate until the heat warnings appear, then climb as steeply as necessary to avoid exploding from then on.

Get it right with a fast enough ship and you'll see better than 4.5:

See http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90747-Kerbodyne-SSTO-Division-Omnibus-Thread?p=1931585&viewfull=1#post1931585 if you want to play with that one, BTW.

Using mods that may or may not be balanced, but I've definitely hit Mach 13.8 using only atmospheric engines last night. Putting together a full album today to share my crafts, then to try and replicate my success in stock.

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Wanderfound

Wanderfound

Posted
Posted
Hello!

Just a general question on plane design.

With classic airframe subsonic transport planes what to do to smoothen out the yellow pitch moment line on the static graph? How to possibly control how steep it goes while keeping the point where it crosses zero constant and vice versa?

How to increase the stalling angle of attack? It seems to decrease with adding more stabilizer.

Thank you?

We can give you better info if you provide screenshots of the ship, but as a general rule:

To reduce your stall speed, reduce your wing loading. So, either more wing or less weight. Deploying properly set up flaps will also lower stall speed. As for increasing pre-stall AoA...that's a bit more complicated, I think. Lower stall speed will probably imply higher stall AoA, but there are some subtleties of wing shape involved that I don't fully understand.

For the steepness of the pitch moment...the more rear-biased the lift on the ship (relative to CoM), the steeper the line. A steeper line implies more stability, but requires greater control force inputs to disrupt that stability (which is necessary for manoeuvring, and is also a bit necessary just for level flight). So, to shallow it out, either more lift at the front (bigger wings or shift them forwards) or less at the back (smaller tailplane or shift it forwards).

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Dentzu

Dentzu

Posted
Posted

Mach 20.2 - FAR, OPT Space Plane Pack, Instell Incorporated, QuizTech Aero, Intake Build Aid, Crzyrndm's B9 pWings patch.

http://i.imgur.com/Tsd2hqF.png

I'm pretty sure this is impossible in stock, and only remotely possible because of how powerful the Instell engines are. For reference, Mach 6.4 is the required orbital speed for LKO and Mach 24 is the required orbital speed for the space shuttle in LEO. The Ramjets I'm using from Instell should probably drop power much more significantly past Mach 6 as real life ramjets have limitations past that speed, but hey, I'm not super in to realism and flying this fast is *fun*.

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Wanderfound

Wanderfound

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Posted
Mach 20.2 - FAR, OPT Space Plane Pack, Instell Incorporated, QuizTech Aero, Intake Build Aid, Crzyrndm's B9 pWings patch.

http://i.imgur.com/Tsd2hqF.png

I'm pretty sure this is impossible in stock, and only remotely possible because of how powerful the Instell engines are. For reference, Mach 6.4 is the required orbital speed for LKO and Mach 24 is the required orbital speed for the space shuttle in LEO. The Ramjets I'm using from Instell should probably drop power much more significantly past Mach 6 as real life ramjets have limitations past that speed, but hey, I'm not super in to realism and flying this fast is *fun*.

Minor point: Mach speeds vary with altitude (atmospheric pressure affects the speed of sound), and don't exist in vacuum.

But, yeah, extreme hypersonic is fun. :)

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Wanderfound

Wanderfound

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I know :( I missed the screenshot of in-atmosphere flight, by the time I thought to record the top speed I was already up in the atmosphere. http://imgur.com/h73y0UQ

Is there a better way to display mach information on-screen than changing the NavBall to display it using FAR?

Kerbal Flight Data: it provides all of the text that appears near my navball. Speed, radar altitude, stall, heat and overpressure warnings, etc. Essential mod.

YfOcEsD.jpg

Alternately, the text at top of screen comes from Kerbal Engineer Redux. That isn't showing Mach at the moment, but they're highly customisable.

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blowfish

blowfish

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Posted
Minor point: Mach speeds vary with altitude (atmospheric pressure affects the speed of sound), and don't exist in vacuum.

Other minor point: It depends mostly on temperature rather than pressure.

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taniwha

taniwha

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Posted
Minor point: Mach speeds vary with altitude (atmospheric pressure affects the speed of sound), and don't exist in vacuum.

Not quite: it is temperature, not pressure, that affects the speed of sound.

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kcs123

kcs123

Posted
Posted
Hello!

Just a general question on plane design.

With classic airframe subsonic transport planes what to do to smoothen out the yellow pitch moment line on the static graph? How to possibly control how steep it goes while keeping the point where it crosses zero constant and vice versa?

Thank you?

If Wanderfounds answer is not enough, I will try to make another galery of screenshots that covers question how to smoothen out the yellow pitch moment line.

However, I would not be able to do it before weekend, but I will notify everyone here when I make this one. It seems it is hard to explain it properly without pictures.

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Akira_R

Akira_R

Posted
Posted (edited)
Am I right to assume that "mindblowing resolution screenshots" may kill my several years old laptop?

While doing the screenshot for the BV 144 I had about 6 fps iIrc...

Anyway, old screenshot key was F12 (default), new one is numpad 5. Accidentally pressed F12, and forgot to wait till the stuff disappeared again.

EDIT: And btw: I cant even open .cfg files... so I cant change anything in settings.cfg (unless there is an in-game option to do that)

Hey not sure if some one responded to this (I don't have time to go through all the pages at the moment) but I thought it was important to address your statement of inability to open .cfg files!

Playing with .cfg files is a fantastic way to learn how the game works and opens up many many many possibilities as far as compaptibility between different mods, performing your own trouble shooting and bug testing, and just dramatically improves the modded ksp experience in general!!

All that is needed to open a .cfg file is a simple text editor, some thing like notepad, I highly recommend getting Notepad++ if you are on windows, if you are on mac maybe look here but I can't actually make a recommendation lol

All you need to do is tell your computer to open the file in the program of your choice.

On windows simply right click, select "open with" and then find the program you want to use

Again can't help if you are on mac

Once you have done that once on windows then every time you try and open a .cfg file it will use the same program, and then you edit it like a text document and just make sure when saving it saves as a .cfg and not a .txt

Also the F1 key is the in game screenshot key, it saves to the screenshots folder in whatever your root ksp folder is

I run ksp on a couple potatoes wired together (core I3 laptop 1.3 GHz and on board graphics, no independent GPU) and have never had any issues with lag when taking a screenshot

EDIT: Unless that keybinding changed in 1.0, I'm still using .90 at the moment

Edited by Akira_R
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Littlerift

Littlerift

Posted
Posted

Has anybody got any tricks for working out which surfaces are stalling? In oldFAR the colour shading system meant that it was easy to identify where a problem was, but I don't see those options any more. I'm trying to work out whether my main wing is stalling or whether the tailplane is being stalled by the wing. The drag lines in the aerodynamic display do pass into the tail, but I just want to be sure that the tail is stalling before I start messing with a design I really like aesthetically (and given that the tail design is fairly conventional when compared to early Cold War jets I don't see why I can't get it to work).

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Amram

Amram

Posted
Posted

So what is considered to be a good ratio of cross section to wave drag? I have a twin engine fighter at 10.86 currently. I did have a turbofan fighter at similar, but I crashed KSP, and on reload....no dice, lol, much higher, possibly the voxels positioned a little differently on me or far was a touch erroneous prior to the crash.

Also, how fast is considered the extreme limits of the Wheesley turbofan? Do we have a noted record on it yet? I've hit 2.105 in level flight for a twin engine aircraft.

I can get to about m2.248 sustained in level flight at 9200m, but it takes finicky design work, and careful exploration of its performance to find the ideal altitude. I essentially built a missile with a mach drag of just 0.189221m²(ratio of 13.52) to see how fast i could get it going. Stability is well...its decent once your up to speed, but until then it has issues, and the first few seconds after launch are reliant on the gimbal to keep things in check. Almost entirely lifting body with only as much control surface as I could add without increasing wave drag - those tail fins reduced it quit a bit actually. Launch is vertical and gradually flattens out at around 9000m for the speed run.

http://imgur.com/gallery/8v3FFN3

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Wanderfound

Wanderfound

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Posted
Has anybody got any tricks for working out which surfaces are stalling? In oldFAR the colour shading system meant that it was easy to identify where a problem was, but I don't see those options any more. I'm trying to work out whether my main wing is stalling or whether the tailplane is being stalled by the wing. The drag lines in the aerodynamic display do pass into the tail, but I just want to be sure that the tail is stalling before I start messing with a design I really like aesthetically (and given that the tail design is fairly conventional when compared to early Cold War jets I don't see why I can't get it to work).

Right click on wings or control surfaces in flight; you'll get a "% stalled" number.

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Littlerift

Littlerift

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Right click on wings or control surfaces in flight; you'll get a "% stalled" number.

Welp, I hadn't thought of that. Thank you very much, it helped out greatly - turns out deep stalling is kind of hard to induce in KSP, and that the wing was stalling.

Thanks to that tip, I have managed to make the plane much more flyable. Presenting, the Littlerift System Snowsquall

Javascript is disabled. View full album

She flies quite well, although sub-200m/s she stalls unless you're using analogue control and not quite pulling all the way back. She's not supersonic, but in some BDarmory dogfights she's been able to hold her own, although the AI's insistence in infinitely looping did lead to an embarrassing defeat at the hands of a little prop-driven monoplane with .50 cals.

Most importantly, though, I think she looks beautiful.

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Littlerift

Littlerift

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Looks a lot like a Supermarine Swift. Is that what you were going for?

Pretty much yeah, it started off as a completely original design, but I noticed about half way though that she looked very similar to the Swift. I expect subconsciously I had the Swift in mind all along. She's even as much of a handful as the Swift was said to be at high altitude!

I did notice while building it that having wings composed of multiple parts seems to be much less effective, and more prone to stalling, than having a single-part wing. While it does mean that the wing stalls spanwise instead of all in one go, which is more realistic, it also means that devices like dogtooths and wing fences are ineffective. For example, the wing fences on the Snowsquall don't do very much to prevent the inside wing part from stalling, when in reality they would aid the entire surface from the fence to the root. Can anybody else confirm this effect?

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