[1.12.x] Mk2 Expansion v1.9.1 [update 10/5/21]

[Legenderry]

@SuicidalInsanity you just saved a ship and her six Kerbals. Thanks. It was the ghost of Deadly Re-Entry that haunted me here it seems.

[Kerbal Kobain]

I'm having a challenge with some of the vtol parts; you can't access them in the action groups, is there any fix to this? Thanks

[SuicidalInsanity]

Which VTOL part in particular are you having trouble with? And by can't access them in the Action groups, hat do you mean? They don't respond to AG inputs? The part doesn't have any options in the Action group menu in the SPH?VAB?

Edited March 6, 2016 by SuicidalInsanity

[/A/utist_00]

I have a problem with intake. When i want close intake i need double clicking on "close intake"! I hope this problem will be solved in new version)) Sorry for my english)))

[SuicidalInsanity]

@/A/utist_00: it sounds like you're using the 1.7 pre-release, correct? 1.7 switched how the nuclear jet worked by removing its tiny integrated intakes and added a MM patch making intakes be able to collect IntakeAtm in addition to intakeAir, similar to how other nuclear jet mods work, but this has the side effect of adding a second 'close intake' button. Inconvenient, yes, but better than the alternatives (limiting nuclear jet functionality, duplicating all intakes for IntakeAir and IntakeAtm variants, etc.)

[Gnoyze]

@SuicidalInsanity Just noticed the Mk2 Mobile Processing Lab has 4 seats but only 2 can be used. Could you make an optional config that enables all 4? (I already use a mod that enables all 6 seats in the Stock MPL so there's no imbalance issues for me here)

[Pappystein]

@SuicidalInsanity I love the Mk2 form factor even with all it's limitations.   You have done an amazing job of expanding on the basic form factor.   More options is always better than less.  

On the subject of Mk2 parts and options, any chance we could see a 2x2 engine adapter?   I build long Mk2 Space-planes and a Single Jet engine with two 0.625m Rockets are rarely enough thrust to get my SSTOs into orbit.  and I end up with too much useless weight when I add 2 1.25m sets of tanks in a trebble bubble layout with the Mk2 parts.  

As I envision it the 2x2 would have the 0.625m Vertical with the 1.25m nodes horizontal.  this will cause a slight bump up and down on the basic Mk2 profile but that could be turned into a vertical Chine along the profile of the wing chines to allow placement of a Vertical Tail or Ventral fin.   Of-course then we will just need a Retractable Ventral Fin set

Thanks for considering such an endeavor!

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by Pappystein

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

14 hours ago, Pappystein said:

@SuicidalInsanity I love the Mk2 form factor even with all it's limitations.   You have done an amazing job of expanding on the basic form factor.   More options is always better than less.  

On the subject of Mk2 parts and options, any chance we could see a 2x2 engine adapter?   I build long Mk2 Space-planes and a Single Jet engine with two 0.625m Rockets are rarely enough thrust to get my SSTOs into orbit.  and I end up with too much useless weight when I add 2 1.25m sets of tanks in a trebble bubble layout with the Mk2 parts.  

As I envision it the 2x2 would have the 0.625m Vertical with the 1.25m nodes horizontal.  this will cause a slight bump up and down on the basic Mk2 profile but that could be turned into a vertical Chine along the profile of the wing chines to allow placement of a Vertical Tail or Ventral fin.   Of-course then we will just need a Retractable Ventral Fin set

Thanks for considering such an endeavor!

 

You might be interested in Dr. Jet's Chop Shop.

[Kerbal Kobain]

On March 6, 2016 at 7:10 PM, SuicidalInsanity said:

Which VTOL part in particular are you having trouble with? And by can't access them in the Action groups, hat do you mean? They don't respond to AG inputs? The part doesn't have any options in the Action group menu in the SPH?VAB?

It's all of them for me where I can't assign VTOL parts to their own action groups in the SPH/VAB, I can for example go to action groups, select a stock engine and assign it to toggle with the use of action group 1, but I can't do anything or even select the VTOL parts, thanks

[SuicidalInsanity]

@Gnoyze: I've been doing some minor overhauls for the Scilab IVA anyway, so sure, I can add that.

@Kerbal Kobain: That is most unusual, especially since the Pegasus and Mongrel engines are literally no different from stock engine configs; can any of the other M2X engines be selected in the Action Groups menu? If they can't, then there is likely a mod conflict somewhere or the mod was incorrectly installed.

[Bit Fiddler]

ok I used the hypersonic nose on a spaceplane I am making but it cant survive the launch process...

 

as soon as I go hypersonic the heat indicator starts to climb as expected, however not as expected the nose disintegrates.  I am assuming from heat but I have tried to modify the cfg and raise the heat value with a MM patch but this does not seem to help.  any ideas how to keet this nose from destructing?

 

 

EDIT:  Ok found the issue.. typo in my MM .cfg file.  I had to add a skin temp rating to the part. I just set it at 2500 and the problem is solved.  this value may or may not be "realistic" I just grabbed it seems to be fairly common on parts

Edited March 14, 2016 by Bit Fiddler

[SkyKaptn]

@SuicidalInsanity I am having a similar issue like the post above. Things that is stored inside the mk2 service bay explodes from overheating during launch.

[SuicidalInsanity]

@Bit Fiddler: Are you using DRE? By default the hypersonic nosecone has a maxTemp of 2500, same as stock Mk2 parts. Another question would be what sort of ascent profile are you using? You really shouldn't be hitting hypersonic speeds below 15000 meters or so, any lower and parts will begin to heat up really quickly.

@SkyKaptn: The few quick tests I've done i haven't been able to get service bay contents to explode from heating. Other bits of the plane, yes, but not service bay contents, and the F12 thermal data readouts suggest the bay itself would explode before the stuff inside. So, can you be more specific? Ascent profile, rate of affected part heating, is DRE/FAR involved, part placement inside the bay, when during launch is the explosion happening?

[SkyKaptn]

I had the Garnet fission reactor (not turned on) from Near Future stored in the service bay as a part of a SSTO.

My ascent profile is 35 degrees up to 12000 meters gaining a speed of approx 700m/s. From there I flatten out at 10 degrees to gain speed faster. At 20000 meters I have reached 1200m/s and at this point my craft is accelerating wildly and getting engulfed in flames. 25000 meters and 1400 m/s. Now it takes the reactor's overheat bar (still off) just 3-5 seconds to fill up from the point of being empty.

-No DRE/FAR

 

[SuicidalInsanity]

@SkyKaptn: Using the M2x 1.7X dev pre-release? I think I found the problem - the ModuleCargobay occlusion for the Service Bay wasn't reconfigured correctly following the model rework, resulting in some service bay contents getting heated. It'll be fixed in the next update. For a more immediate fix, you can open up the MK2Expansion/Parts/utility/Servicebay/part.cfg, and scroll down until you find a pair of Module Cargobays. Replace them with:

MODULE
	{
    		name = ModuleCargoBay
    		DeployModuleIndex = 2
    		closedPosition = 0
    		lookupRadius = 1
    		lookupCenter = 0.9,0,0
	}
	MODULE
	{
    		name = ModuleCargoBay
    		DeployModuleIndex = 2
    		closedPosition = 0
    		lookupRadius = 1
    		lookupCenter = -0.9,0,0
	}

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by SuicidalInsanity

[Bit Fiddler]

no not using DRE or FAR...

 

This is on a space plane on climb out.  I am hitting something like 1500 m/s at around 25000 m ASL. the 2 scramjets kick in at around 700 m/s, and then this combined with 2 of your Mk2 engine (max thrust like 1600... cant look for the name right now)  start to kick me hypersonic and things get hot very fast.  

 

I had to add the "max skin temp" line in the MM .cfg  I think the problem is you do not have one, and so the game either uses a default or calculates one somehow. and it is too low...  

Spoiler

@PART[mk2_HypersonicNose]:Final

{

%skinMaxTemp = 2500

}

　

@PART[M2X_Precooler]:Final

{

%skinMaxTemp = 2500

}

　

@PART[M2X_Shockcone]:Final

{

%skinMaxTemp = 2500

}

I had to fix the nose, the pre-cooler, and the shock cone so far.  I am thinking of fixing the small RCS/Reaction wheel part as well, but for those I have just attached a heat sink from one of the heat management mods and just clipped it into the next part on the stack...  I have had the engines blow out and the service bays explode on occasion as well, but not every flight so I just am more carful of my AOA and these seem to survive.  most likely due to their position in the stack makes them safe as they are occluded from the heat wave.

 

 

 

I can get you a video clip or screen shots if it will help.

 

 

[SuicidalInsanity]

The hypersonic nosecone already has a Maxskintemp of 2500, as a result of its more general Maxtemp = 2500 setting - this means that regardless of temp location, be it exposed skin or internal, at 2500k things explode. Max skin temp is for things like capsules if you want them to still have high thermal resistance, but fried Kerbals if the internal temp hits a lower number. You can see this in action by activating the thermal menu data in the thermal tab of the physics tab in the F12 menu, the nosecone won't explode until the skin temperature hits 2500k. If you were to replace the nosecone with a stock Mk2 cockpit or a mk2-1.25m long adapter and a nosecone A, you'd see similar explosive results.

Unlike rocket powered spaceplanes which are being propelled out of the atmosphere, scramjets need to stay within it, which is going to see much more heat being generated. The trick with scramjet powered craft is to have both good heat mitigation - either radiators or heat shields, and high altitude - the scramjet at present won't flame out until 37-40 km or so; an altitude of 25000m is far too low for scramjet flight.

 

[Bit Fiddler]

very odd... as after I put the skin temp line in a mm .cfg file the nose and other afore mentioned parts no longer explode....

[SuicidalInsanity]

I ran a trio of tests to examine this. The first test used default configs, the second used the MM patch you posted, and the third used part configs that had been edited to include SkinMaxTemp = 2500. Testing methodology: I loaded an Estoc eample craft onto the runway, turned on infinite fuel, hack gravity, and thermal data in action menu from the F12 menu. I then hyperedited the Estoc to 20000m, retracted the landing gear, turned on SAS, switched the engine to rocket mode, and activated the engine. Craft maintained straight and level flight at 20000m for the duration of the test, with nosecone temperature monitored until it exploded. All three tests resulted in the nosecone exploding when skintemp hit 2500k, with more or less equal flight times.

If you were to set SkinMaxTemp to something higher, like 3000 or 3500, it would result in the parts in question being able to survive higher temperatures - and, by extension, higher speeds, but as it is currently, the above MM patch doesn't actually do anything.

[SkyKaptn]

I wondered if I may propose a request for a part? I see that there are a few wing root adapters, and I wondered if it was possible for you to accomodate larger wings in a bigger adapter? As you see in the picture below I managed to attach the FAT-wings to the chines, but it does not look to graceful with the abrupt transition. Works very well though. If this new adapter were to clutch over a small part of the hull, this would smoothen things out.

My Stratoglider. Insane lift and speed. 5x detachable rapiers and your NUK3 to power ions once in orbit:

 

[XOC2008]

Not sure if this has been asked for or not, so I'll ask. What about flat bottomed parts? Just as deep as regular mk2 parts but without the lower curve. normal to flat adapters, flat ventral-opening cargo bay, flat bottomed liquid and rocket fuel tanks (which would hold a fraction more mass since there'd be more tank to fill).

[Bit Fiddler]

On ‎2016‎-‎03‎-‎17 at 1:09 PM, SuicidalInsanity said:

I ran a trio of tests to examine this. The first test used default configs, the second used the MM patch you posted, and the third used part configs that had been edited to include SkinMaxTemp = 2500. Testing methodology: I loaded an Estoc eample craft onto the runway, turned on infinite fuel, hack gravity, and thermal data in action menu from the F12 menu. I then hyperedited the Estoc to 20000m, retracted the landing gear, turned on SAS, switched the engine to rocket mode, and activated the engine. Craft maintained straight and level flight at 20000m for the duration of the test, with nosecone temperature monitored until it exploded. All three tests resulted in the nosecone exploding when skintemp hit 2500k, with more or less equal flight times.

If you were to set SkinMaxTemp to something higher, like 3000 or 3500, it would result in the parts in question being able to survive higher temperatures - and, by extension, higher speeds, but as it is currently, the above MM patch doesn't actually do anything.

Hmm I am at a loss...   I will remove the MM patch and re-fly my current design and see if it explodes again...   it may just be the changes I made to the craft make the difference not the MM patch.

[SuicidalInsanity]

@SkyKaptn: It looks like the Airliner wings are connected directly to the fuselage in that picture. Considering the size of FAT-455 airliner wings, a chin adapter would be impractical, it would be simpler to just clip them into the fuselage with the Offset tool in the SPH.

@XOC2008: M2X won't include flat bottomed parts for two reasons. The first is that M2X is about mk2 parts, so I'm not going to include a lineup of parts for a different fuselage cross-section. The second reason is that it would by necessity involve replicating a substantial chunk of the M2X part lineup in the new formfactor. A more logistically sane approach would be something like the Comorant Aerology stuff; admittedly those are mk3 flat-bottom parts, but you could try asking if the mod author is making mk2 equivalents as well.

[XOC2008]

2 hours ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

@XOC2008: M2X won't include flat bottomed parts for two reasons. The first is that M2X is about mk2 parts, so I'm not going to include a lineup of parts for a different fuselage cross-section. The second reason is that it would by necessity involve replicating a substantial chunk of the M2X part lineup in the new formfactor. A more logistically sane approach would be something like the Comorant Aerology stuff; admittedly those are mk3 flat-bottom parts, but you could try asking if the mod author is making mk2 equivalents as well.

I getcha. Figured I'd ask, and I went ahead and posed the same question there too!

[SuicidalInsanity]

Tried out the 1.1 pre-release today, and I have some good news and some bad news for the future of M2X. The good news is that M2X isn't quite as broken as I thought it would be, The bad news is most of the breakage is dependency based. There are some workarounds I can use if the dependencies don't update in a timely manner following 1.1's release, but they would come at the cost of increased part count and reduced functionality. Additionally, the KSP 1.1 M2X update will likely be mildly save breaking, and may result in some saved/in-flight craft not loading due to changes in part lineup/naming.