SuicidalInsanity

[1.8.x] Mk2 Expansion v1.8.6.5 [update 11/9/2019]

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I have the same issue just loading the mod. Always froze up while loading TunaPit. Workaround is to delete that folder. No need to not use the mod at all. I have not tried using the cockpit as it is an odd form factor, but I do have it used for a great craft on an earlier save. I suspect the game would freeze/crash if the cockpit was used. Most likely it would attach to the craft, but when launched, it may have issues. Though the issues may not start until you went to cockpit view. I may do further testing in the future if I ever want to use the part for a craft.

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It loads for me somehow... however the kerbal portraits disappears. Hope for a fix soon as I use it on my 1.7.x save game.

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On 10/29/2019 at 3:07 PM, Tiger1357 said:

I have the same issue just loading the mod. Always froze up while loading TunaPit. Workaround is to delete that folder. No need to not use the mod at all. I have not tried using the cockpit as it is an odd form factor, but I do have it used for a great craft on an earlier save. I suspect the game would freeze/crash if the cockpit was used. Most likely it would attach to the craft, but when launched, it may have issues. Though the issues may not start until you went to cockpit view. I may do further testing in the future if I ever want to use the part for a craft.

Same problem here as well. Tiger1357's workaround of deleting the folder works for now.

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I absolutely love your mod but I am having some issues with it currently. I have been using it for a while without any issues but I tried to load it today and the game stopped loading at "Mk2Expansion/Spaces/TunaPit/internal/TunaCockpit". is there anyway to fix this? I would absolutely love to fix this. If its any help I installed via ckan

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2 hours ago, nerftruck said:

I absolutely love your mod but I am having some issues with it currently. I have been using it for a while without any issues but I tried to load it today and the game stopped loading at "Mk2Expansion/Spaces/TunaPit/internal/TunaCockpit". is there anyway to fix this? I would absolutely love to fix this. If its any help I installed via ckan

Read the first post on this very page and at the bottom of the previous page.

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I have one issue and one sorta question about this mod. The issue is the deployment of the "J Edgar" VTOL (M2X_HeavyVTOL): the animation plays only during the deployment. The retraction happens instantly.

And the question is about the use of the TextureReplacerReplaced. It seems to me that TRR is abandoned now, while the original TextureReplacer is very much alive. There are no releases for 1.8 yet, but it does have some commits with 1.8 preparations in it. And while we're on the topic, one window seems to be missed:

AZHDRrz.png

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Hello.

First, thanks for this mod :)

I think there is a little problem with the little cockpit view in the lower right of the HUD (Mk2 inline for the exemple here, but there is the same problem with the MK3 inline of your MK3 Expansion)

z9b9.jpg

Is there something i'm doing wrong ?

 

Edited by nefrem

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Is there a chance this will lose the B9 Partswitch dependency at some point? It strikes me a kind of obsolete, given the many ways to switch part variants now.

On 11/12/2019 at 7:22 PM, nefrem said:

Hello.

First, thanks for this mod :)

I think there is a little problem with the little cockpit view in the lower right of the HUD (Mk2 inline for the exemple here, but there is the same problem with the MK3 inline of your MK3 Expansion)

z9b9.jpg

Is there something i'm doing wrong ?

 

A lot of cockpit cams have this issue since KSP 1.8, I think it's a clipping plane problem on the camera side.

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[ERR 15:15:14.984] PartCompiler: Cannot clone model 'Mk2Expansion/Parts/Engines/AugmentedRocket/Model' as model does not exist

Actual model name doesn't include a capital letter. Changing "Model" to "model" in the cfg file fixes it.

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I'm also missing the crew portraits, the only solution is for me to delete the folder of command modules. I can still use everything else just fine. 

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The crew portraits are occluded by IVA model geometry. The portrait should function as they always have, merely the kerbals are hidden behind control consoles due to where the camera is.
I'll see about fixing them.

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In my case, the entire gui for the portraits is missing, not just misaligned pics within them. I have the MK3 parts mod by you as well, but it requires no folder deletion to work, command modules included. Lovely parts, all.

Also it looks as though various parts, i.e the MK2 RCS stability module, are causing massive drag to the part behind them. Took me a bit to figure out why, but I think it is due to this:
 

Quote

Most parts get their A and Cd0 in an automatic way from their model---the model we see, not the often-simpler collision mesh.  
When there are holes all the way through a part, which would be closed up when the part is in a stack,  the automatic calculation gives a small Ay, discounting the hole, and the next part in the stack is treated as if hit with airflow rushing through said hole.  The Structural Tubes from the Making History mod is an example of this going wrong.  Modders need to put a custom drag cube in the cfg file of the part showing the full cross-section as blocked to airflow.

GYcYlfi.png

The SC-01 RCS Stability Control Module .mu looks great, and I know nothing about modding, but from my desperate research, the hole inside the model may be causing the issue since the .cfg doesn't have a drag cube. In The below image has the action menus open with drag details for the 3rd-5th part from the nose, with the problematic part receiving normal drag, but the next in the stack getting 20x the drag it should, then followed finally by another part back to normal. This happens no matter what part I stack behind the mod part, and goes away if I remove the mod part. Same goes for MK3 parts as well, particularly I've noticed the MK3 drone core, also with holes in it's model and no custom drag cube in the .cfg.

60t8JqU.png

I have 3 of these awesome parts in my ship, but at 1400 m/s I'm getting more than half the drag from this bug. I am going to try to find a guide on adding a drag cube to the part myself and see if that fixes it, I'll let you know.


 

 

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25 minutes ago, ztoundas said:

In my case, the entire gui for the portraits is missing, not just misaligned pics within them.

This is due to a pod having no IVA defined at all. It still "works" -- just harder to manage the crew activities/EVA/etc.

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23 hours ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

The crew portraits are occluded by IVA model geometry. The portrait should function as they always have, merely the kerbals are hidden behind control consoles due to where the camera is.
I'll see about fixing them.

Thank you ! :)

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That's the weird thing, it was happening even on ships I had built prior to adding the mod. Those ships had no mod parts within them, yet still no portrait gui, but clicking the special place on some doors and whatnot still revealed somebody was inside at least. Exiting the game, deleting the 'mk2expansion/parts/command' folder, then restarting, and viola, the gui itself was back. 

Meanwhile in regards to the drag-inducing holes in the RCS module, I discovered the stock MK2 cargo bay has a drag cube (two actually, but I am ignoring the second used for the opened bay). I will modify it to be as short as the RCS Stability Module and see if that works.

Edited by ztoundas

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42 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

This is due to a pod having no IVA defined at all. It still "works" -- just harder to manage the crew activities/EVA/etc.

Yes, however the GUI was also missing for stock-only ships also after installing the mod. Clicking the special place on some doors and whatnot still revealed somebody was inside (for those with my problem).

Meanwhile in regards to the drag-inducing holes in the RCS module, I discovered the stock MK2 cargo bay has a drag cube (two actually, but I am ignoring the second used for the opened bay). I will modify it to be as short as the RCS Stability Module and see if that works.

EDIT: SORRY THIS IS A DUPLICATE POST

Edited by ztoundas

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Okay so evidently ModManager does us a solid and outputs the drag cubes auto-generated per part by the game in the PartDatabase.cfg (found in the root game folder).

M2X_SCRCS (the RCS Stability Module) end up as such (colored by me to visually break up the triplets):

0.1824,0.3659,1.313, 0.1824,0.3659,1.313, 2.122,0.9694,0.1825, 2.122,0.9694,0.1838, 0.293,0.2174,0.8097, 0.293,0.2165,0.8097, 2.682E-05,-0.0001838,4.172E-06, 2.5,0.1255,1.73

Where, for example, the stock pre-defined drag cube for the MK2 bay (which I know is longer, but still has the same cross section) is:

2.811507,0.4203178,1.323529, 2.811507,0.4207772,1.323529, 2.494907,0.962501,0.154902, 2.494907,0.9625011,0.154902, 4.694843,0.9348387,1.386667, 4.694939,0.9358073,1.54, 0,0.0001237392,0, 2.5,1.875248,1.5

From this thread, it breaks down like this:

Quote

the first six triplets are X+, X-, Y+, Y-, Z+, Z- faces of the cube. The numbers are area, drag coefficient, and depth of widest point from the frontmost point at that angle. The nextr triplet is the bounds center, the final is the bounds extents.

Now I just have to wrap my brain around this and find where the automatically calculated drag cube is wrong, and correct it..

EDIT:...or I could get smart and find the calculated drag cube in that PartDatabase.cfg file for the stock MK2 drone core (thicker than your RCS Stability module, but not by much) and just use that:

0.3691,0.3524,1.324, 0.3691,0.3524,1.324, 2.004,0.9604,0.2241, 2.004,0.9604,0.2241, 0.6348,0.2035,0.7, 0.6348,0.2035,0.7, 0,-6.258E-07,7.461E-14, 2.5,0.25,1.5

Edited by ztoundas

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I'll add fixing the drag cube(s?) to the list. Out of curiosity, if you know, does the stock mk2 drone core ( which also doesn't have a custom drag cube defined in the .cfg and holes in the model) also display similar draggy behavior?

So the GUI portraits are completely gone for some? Odd. And the portraits aren't simply minimized? I'm going to need logs for that, M2X is a parts mod, no custom plugins, so something weird is going on.

Edited by SuicidalInsanity

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Quote

Out of curiosity, if you know, does the stock mk2 drone core ( which also doesn't have a custom drag cube defined in the .cfg and holes in the model) also display similar draggy behavior?

Well Jeb's my uncle, looks like the stock drone core also has holes! I should have checked, because my solution didn't work perfectly, and the drone core's auto-calculated figure may be erroneous as well (like the stock structural tubes, which are known to have this issue). My example ship there does have the drone core in it, immediately before the parts I had the menus up for in my original shot.

So I inverted the stack, and here is the result after adding the calculated stock drone core to the .cfg of your rcs part. I tried to match speed and AoA so the drag figures should be under similar conditions.

BO6VWF7.png

You'll notice that the battery is still very high, so that's not right. Though it has no holes in it, it does seem flawed, and now I recall it was problematic last time I used it, but that is unique to itself and it doesn't seem to effect the following part.
Meanwhile, the drone core does also appear to be increasing the drag of the part following it (the crew cabin, which was at 0.26 in my original shot, vs 9.2 now). However it's own drag is no longer being effected by the RCS part? 

I'll try some more configurations. Something is screwy but I feel like I am close. Something about those YP and YN values looks inconsistent.

Later I'll do some examples of my missing portrait GUI.  

Edited by ztoundas
yp yn values

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@ztoundas @SuicidalInsanity An introduction to understanding drag cubes: Look at the part from each of the orthogonal axes (X+, X-...). The amount of solid surface area is taken and mushed down into an equilateral square. All negative space due to hollow bits is considered and reduces the total area. Drag cube area is not simply a function of how tall and wide the face at that axis is. This number (the drag cube area) is most important for the Y+ and Y- because this axis is where stack nodes and the airflow direction apply nearly all of the time. Once the drag cube area is near identical for the Y faces across all parts in a given bulkhead profile (or a given stack, regardless of profile), this particular problem is squashed.

The matter of negative space is the reason why (for example) the Mk3 Expansion drone core should bring players an exceptional lot of trouble. I remember it having a lot of hollow area. Any cargo bays added by mods are the absolute worst as they only have their really thin side walls and practically don't exist in the Y axis view.

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@JadeOfMaar Thanks for the insight!

I noticed one of his .mu models (the MK2 battery) has multiple hollow components that together ultimately make a solid face from the Y ortho perspective, but also seems to have a bulkhead profile inconsistency in the drag cube (I think). Does the multiple elements in the 3d model confuse the automatic drag cube calculation perhaps, since some individually are hollow?

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14 minutes ago, ztoundas said:

Does the multiple elements in the 3d model confuse the automatic drag cube calculation perhaps, since some individually are hollow?

Most likely. It will definitely complicate things. You will likely find the word "procedural" in the drag cube entry for parts like this, and procedural drag cubes are something I have no experience with. Assuming its overall size never changes, you can get away with stopping this and giving it the same single settings as the next closest part by size.

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BAM

So I went through my plane in flight's drag values and found the stock crew cabin, MK2 LFO segment and a few others had no YP and YN  values (I'm guessing that's Y Positive and Y Negative) over 0.00. I am here assuming that meant they had no exposed areas where the Y faces of their drag boxes exposed. They looked like this (using the short LFO values, but highlighted values where the same across them):

cube = Default, 2.802,0.3552,1.292, 2.802,0.3552,1.292, 2.494,0.972,0.1627, 2.494,0.972,0.1627, 4.688,0.2036,0.7, 4.688,0.2036,0.7, 0,0,0, 2.5,1.875,1.5

Now notice the original MK2 drone core's drag cube:

cube = Default, 0.3691,0.3524,1.324, 0.3691,0.3524,1.324, 2.004,0.9604,0.2241, 2.004,0.9604,0.2241, 0.6348,0.2035,0.7, 0.6348,0.2035,0.7, 0,-6.258E-07,7.461E-14, 2.5,0.25,1.5

and the original value for the MK2 RCS Stability Module:

cube = Defaults, 0.1824,0.3659,1.313, 0.1824,0.3659,1.313, 2.122,0.9694,0.1825, 2.122,0.9694,0.1838, 0.293,0.2174,0.8097, 0.293,0.2165,0.8097, 2.682E-05,-0.0001838,4.172E-06, 2.5,0.1255,1.73

So I swapped the Y Area values of the irritating parts (in red) with the value (in green) from the appropriate part. I also did the next value, the Y coefficient, and while I am hazy on how it relates, I figured it wouldn't hurt. In the end I added a default corrected drag cube to the stock drone core and the mod's MK2 battery and RCS Module.   

Then I started the game and flew, matching speed and pitch. The action menus are going counter clockwise, starting with the top of the stack (other than the mk2 cockpit) being the drone core and ending with the MK2 LF fuselage:

cN3ZVKD.png

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