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yorshee

Do you consider Offset Clipping cheating?

Do you think it's cheating?  

238 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think it's cheating?

    • Yes, it can be manipulated to unrealistic levels that I don't like.
      34
    • No, there's nothing wrong with having the freedom to make my crafts how I want them to be!
      132
    • It depends (Please explain!)
      72


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No problems with it, you can make even more realistic models with it, if you clip hundreds of parts in one then it is, but why would you do that anyway?

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The poll questions are biased.

This poll is obviously worded to confirm his already held belief that unlimited part clipping should not be looked at as an exploit/cheating/whatever.

What if I want to answer "Yes", without a "it depends" but not for the reason that the poll crudely stick to a "yes" answer.

That wasn't my intention.

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No I do not think it's cheating. What else are we supposed to do with that long 1.25 to 2.5m adapter? Just NOT put anything in it?

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I often clip stuff into empty spaces, so the Rocomax to Kerbodyne adapter is basically a big empty cone, which can be used to hide stuff like RCS tanks, etc.

Have also been known to clip things like RTGs and probe cores into nosecones as well.

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It depends. If you want to play the game properly and you're clipping together few tanks in one, that's cheating. If you're gonna slightly clip a sepratron so that it looks aesthetically and aerodynamically pleasing, then it's not. Or let's say if you clip stuff inside hollow things. Why not?

Obviously there's a gray zone, but I use clipping for aesthetics. Otherwise I could make a monster ship the size of a suitcase, go to Eve, return to orbit, visit depths of Jool, pick up a sample from Eeloo, land on Moho's polar hole and return home.

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i don't think it's actually really possible to cheat in a single player sandbox-ish game, it's meant to entertain you, do whatever you have to to enjoy it.

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It depends.

Clipping many fuel tanks into the same volume (to a major extent, not just a tiny overlap somewhere) clearly is cheating. It is quite clearly not something that is the intended way of doing things. Other things less so.

The game allowing it or not has absolutely zero relevance to whether or not it is cheating. The game allows a great many things which are basically or fundamentally cheating. Because KSP is not in any way a competitive game, there is zero requirement for the game to prevent cheating. Cheating is not even wrong, dishonest, or in any way a bad thing in itself in this type of game; only cheating and then denying that you have cheated is wrong, as that absolutely is dishonest and wrong.

It is up to each player whether they want to cheat or not, and the extent and ways in which they wish to cheat. The game operates on the honour system, and you are absolutely required to stop yourself from cheating if you prefer to avoid cheating. It is absolutely not Squad's responsibility to prevent you from cheating or to even flash a big red sign on the screen when you do cheat. Squad do not, and should not put any effort whatsoever into preventing cheating, and the game is much better for being completely open and allowing each individual to choose the precise level and ways that they wish to cheat at any given time. It is a requirement for the success of an open ended, non competitive sandbox simulation that the game does nothing to actively prevent cheating.

Cheat all you want to, cheating is absolutely fine, just don't ever deny or hide it, or pretend that it's not cheating. If you are not capable of self control, to stick to the rules that you define for yourself, then this may well not be the game for you, and you should quite possibly even seek professional help.

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My little Kemini capsule contains two batteries, a probe core, a clipped-in parachute, clipped-in communotron, three Seprotron retro-rockets and three landing legs. Not cheating because I'm paying for it all in mass and funds. I think I clip about every ship I build. I've got the USI life support mod and merrily clip cartons of snacks into hab modules, because hey, there's space in there. I tuck half of my little fuel tank into a landing can to make a Mun lander with a low center of gravity. Its okay, Magy Kerman will fit, she's compact. And why shouldn't all my scientific instruments be clipped inside the science lab? Its just two Kerbals in that big thing. However, I do consider it cheating to clip fuel tanks into fuel tanks into fuel tanks into fuel tanks. Not saying my nuclear tug module doesn't have a fuel tank clipped into the middle of the four tanks, but that's for fuel ducting purposes and could just as easily be the adapter...

I'm not arguing this well.

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I voted no for a few reasons. One can be found by following my signature link, a craft which certainly wouldn't be possible without clipping.

I find that clipping comes with certain risks, and can sometimes result in less-than-desirable outcomes, such as, well, enormous explosions. I find that there's absolutely nothing wrong with part clipping for aesthetics as long as it's not abused. I mean, the clipping can come at the cost of adding weight to the vessel, so it's not without consequences!

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From what I can tell with stock aero, you get drag for a stack regardless of clipping, so the primary benefit is being able to hide more behind a heat-shield.

That said, if you are not using a heat shield, I am not sure you get much out of clipping aside from aesthetics, and perhaps a lower center of mass.

Personally, I use the off-set widget to move my lander legs out and down as far as I can to minimize the number of structural pieces I need to use to have a reasonably stable lander.

(I'll probably be able to stop once I get the I-beam though)

Even if there were a benefit to doing so, I would not have a problem clipping a couple of LOX fuel tanks on top of each other after draining the O2 out for a nuclear engine, after all the 02 takes up more than half the tank.

(none of my nucular designs are off the drawing board though, waiting for a tank that holds more than 150 units without being more than half empty)

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I think clipping can be seen as an exploit when done to a certain extent. Monoprop tanks inside fuel tanks is one example. In the end it all depends on how you want to play the game in a personal way. I personally like to be proud of my designs in an engineering point of view as much as in an aesthetic way.

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If you want it to be cheating, then it's cheating. If you don't want it to be cheating, then it isn't. Personally, I don't clip engines into engines, that's just plain wrong. The only time I will clip gas tanks into other gas tanks is when I want to create angles of various degrees, and why up the part count using structural bits and pieces. That's the main reason I'll clip things: to help reduce part count. I have no problem clipping pretty much everything else. Oh, but not wings or intakes, I won't do the intake spam or wing clippy spam thing either. Though sometimes I clip wings when using them more as structural pieces and not so much as lifting surfaces. They're lighter and longer than structural pieces so I do that a lot.

In summary: it depends...

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Personally, I utilize offset clipping sparingly. Usually to clip batteries halfway into my command pods or to stick a probe core into an advanced inline stabilizer or whatever. Going crazy with clipping feels, I don't know, dishonest? That's just how I play the game though, I've seen a lot of cool crafts on the forums that use clipping, and I'd hate to rain on their parade. I feel similarly about mods, as I'm also a strictly stock player. Just not my thing, but I don't consider it "cheaty". It's a single-player game, so there's no harm done.

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I'm a stock builder in KSP - i like both technical performances and aesthetics :) used to clip in engines and fuel tanks for making replicas well before the offset tool was avaible :) the offset tool is a great help in diminishing the part count though ;) as far as building replicas / rockets that can hold themselves together goes, i'm not bound by any limits :)

(Besides, drag is still as annoying as ever for clipped parts - maybe even more than before - i have a 20 ton replica in the works that can't go faster than 40m/s with two basic jet engines - at 3000m !)

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Clip if you want to. (why am i reminded of the "Safety Dance" when I typed that????)

You cannot "clip out" the mass. You still need to lift it.

It is not a cheat. No way at all.

It's a gift. it allows you to apply aesthetics and clean design when and where you desire.

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You can't clip out the drag either, unless you use nuFAR, so part clipping in stock is if anything anti-cheating.

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eh, if you're just clipping things a small bit to make them look better I think it's not "cheating"

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Without nuFAR, I don't believe that offset clipping affects gameplay at all. Most things are still calculated as if the part was in its original position, aren't they? I'm pretty sure drag is, anyway.

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Clipping wings or other structural parts to make the ship a certain way is certainly not cheating IMO. Fitting engines inside tanks and still using the full capacity of the tank if cheaty indeed.

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Cheating is a personal opinion in one player games. I do not use clipping to increase performance. Sometimes I make structural things by clipping of fuel tanks and use one of them or estimate what is volume of the structure. I clip structural parts inside tanks because it is fully artificial restriction to have just couple of standard parts (for example lengths of modular girders, structural plates etc.).

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Clipping to achieve unrealistic or un-kerbal levels of performance, like intake/wing/tank stacking, I wouldn't do. But reasonable levels of clipping for aesthetics/aerodynamics is almost required with the limited part selection, especially if you build planes with the new FAR.

That's just me though, make up your own rules :P

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