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Kar

Must I give up on KSP? I do not want it :(

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I've found that the new aero has added a lot to the game. Rockets capable of reaching orbit have gotten easier to design (though piloting them is trickier than old stock aero), but the difference with aircraft is immense. I've been playing wiht planes a lot more because they're much more enjoyable to fly now.

Certainly, there will be a period of adjustment while players get used to the new mechanics, there certainly has been for me. It's not just about doing a smooth gravity turn, but also about managing speed in the lower atmosphere to prevent things from overheating and exploding.

My advice would be to stick with it, and keep experimenting until you find what works.

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You don't even need to touch controls til you are nearly in space now. SAS off, give it a tap east, then hands off. I'm not seeing a problem.

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I think you are overreacting. If you want people to help, you could post a screenshot or a craft file, maybe some of us can help you?

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So, what to do? I cant play like this, I am getting desperate

Well, if you want to continue playing Kerbal Space Program, you will keep trying and eventually learn the new aero. Remember how tough it was to learn to get to orbit when you first started playing KSP? This is even easier because only a few things have changed, plus there are dozens of tutorials and videos to help you out.

You have a couple options. You can politely ask on the forums for advice, maybe posting pictures of your rocket designs, and folks will be happy to help. Or if you truly think it isn't worth the effort, then you could just stop playing KSP and do something else with your time that you enjoy more. But instead of either of those, you're complaining on the forum and saying that "you don't know what to do" and that you're "desperate".

Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but I just don't think this post is productive.

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I notice that the OP is complaining that everything wants to go right. Either it's a symmetry issue or a control issue. Maybe a trim or control setting was accidentally tweaked?

Another poster saying that everything exploded randomly. Not sure why, maybe something corrupted somewhere?

To both I would say maybe try a fresh download and install, and see if anything behaves differently. Also, if you see re-entry effects during ascent you're going too fast; get a mod like VOID or KER to show your TWR (Thrust-to-Weight Ratio), and keep your liftoff TWR under 1.5-1.8.

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My god, are we still whining about this?

Personally I think the game has improved since earlier versions.

On some level, all of us think of ourselves as scientists or engineers, else we wouldn't be playing this game. Isn't the point of science to adapt to changes in experimental data??

Grow a set and be a scientist.

Or better yet, look in the options when creating a game and notice that you can turn down a lot of the settings...

Like turn off heating effect...

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It will take a while to get used to the new aero, you might want to try launching dead-weight payloads on different rocket styles to get the hang of designing and flying for the new aero.

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Learn what?

that every ship must explode on the pad?

that every ship must explode in mid-air?

oh look, another structural linkage failure. big surprise there.

god, I wish I had a way to record video, I'd show you what I mean. even the simplest vessels burst in to flames

If your not willing to help yourself... How are we supposed to help you? The information you need is readily available en masse. Try looking in the other "my rocket keeps flipping" threads that pop up every hour.

Try looking at real rockets, try looking at real launches. Do some research on basic rocketry and flight. Learn! That's what KSP is all about.

If that doesn't appeal to you then you are playing the wrong game. God forbid a player has to think in a video game these days...

Edited by Motokid600

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My angle is, I'm playing a fictional game, with fictional characters, in a fictional solar system with fictional planets that have fictional names, and I do not want any of this realism crap.

The problem with the old aerodynamics is that very basic things that could be done to a real rocket or real airplane could make the KSP equivalent craft perform worse rather than better. Let's say, nosecones. Increased the mass and the drag of a craft with no upside other than looking better/right.

To both I would say maybe try a fresh download and install, and see if anything behaves differently. Also, if you see re-entry effects during ascent you're going too fast; get a mod like VOID or KER to show your TWR (Thrust-to-Weight Ratio), and keep your liftoff TWR under 1.5-1.8.

I would actually go a little farther and say you shouldn't see mach effects if you're having problems with flipping rockets, since being aerodynamically stable at transsonic speeds is even harder than subsonic. I find that a TWR of 1.8 will push a craft transsonic, but one of 1.7 won't, for reasonably aerodynamic craft. Mind you this isn't just the at-launch TWR, so SRBs would have to be throttled well below a starting TWR of 1.7 and liquid fuel engines will usually have to be adjusted in flight.

Piloting comes down to two rules. The faster you go, the stronger the aerodynamic forces on the craft get, so if aerodynamics is trying to flip it, going fast is bad. The farther from prograde you aim the craft, the stronger the lateral aerodynamic forces on the craft get, so again, if aerodynamics is trying to flip the craft, steering too far from prograde will flip the craft. Craft design was covered fairly well here.

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I try almost every approach to get into orbit, simple rockets, perfect align, all of them tend to turn right. No matter what I do

Have you read EtherDragon's short Why Does My FLIPing Rocket Always Flip Over! tutorial? It's quite good. If you want a tl;dr, it's simple: build darts (center of mass well ahead of center of pressure), don't overpower your rockets, and use fins as necessary to increase ass drag (but not too much ass drag though).

On edit: Here's Scott Manley's most recent tutorial on reaching orbit for new players. Skip to 9:00 minutes.

Edited by lincourtl

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Guys, guys, guys,

I'm all for sacrificing realism for the sake of fun, but this is a space simulation game. A large part of getting to space is aerodynamics.

You NEED to relearn how to do it with semi-real aero and not default back to the old super-broken placeholder.

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Learn what?

that every ship must explode on the pad?

that every ship must explode in mid-air?

oh look, another structural linkage failure. big surprise there.

god, I wish I had a way to record video, I'd show you what I mean. even the simplest vessels burst in to flames

It sounds like you have a completely different issue there. Best make your own thread and describe your problem in detail with pictures of your craft. The people here will be happy to help you then.

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yeah, this realism crap is killing all the fun.

I'm starting to regret buying the game, even considering uninstalling.

if I wanted realism, I wouldn't be playing with little green men in lego-style ships that has every non-explosive part, explode when a feather falls on it.

I liked 0.90 better, when FAR/NEAR were optional mods. now you can't even opt-out as it's forced upon you.

The new Aero is.... difficult, but I do like it. Try using fins a lot, and taking gravity turns a lot slower.

Also, if you're going to be doing an Eve return mission, dont use an unshielded seat- 1km/s 50 KM will kill them. Which is odd, considering the seat itself dosen't even heat up, or even the ladders!

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The new Aero is a bit of a double-edged sword.

It's easier (once you adjust) to get bigger and slower rockets into orbit, but planes are a whole lot less fun. I understand it's supposed to be more realistic but it doesn't feel as if that's the case, in my opinion. Feels more like "flying" through water.

This is not to say the old system was a "better" simulation, but I definitely got a lot more enjoyment out of flying in 0.90 than I have in 1.0+.

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The new aero is easy seriously its not the game that has the issue its you, if you cant relearn how to play then you need to either stop complaining and give up or stop complaining and keep trying(I dont know how anyone is having any issues its so easy to get anything to anywhere in KSP.)

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If you don't like the new aero, I'd recommend to try FAR. This might sound crazy, but imho FAR indeed makes launching rockets easier than stock.

The atmosphere is even less soupy with FAR (=even slightly lower dV requirements), and the gimballing range of all rocket engines is buffed by a factor of 1.5. This makes it much easier to keep even unstable rockets under control.

Apart from that I can only repeat what others are writing: Put fins at the bottom of the rocket, don't do rapid turns (keep your heading within the surface prograde marker), make your payload aerodynamic as well, at least until you get a feeling for how bulky payload may be to still keep the rocket controllable,...

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I really don't understand the rocket flipping problem. Even my ridiculous monstrosity rockets don't flip. Can you post a pict of what your having trouble with?

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The game is much much better since the new aerodynamics have been implemented.

It now gives you an idea of how things work. And still its pretty easy.

If you have problems just toggle "F12" and watch the aerodynamic forces. Keep the nose of the rocket near the yellow speed indicator. Think in terms of airflow, and add fins if you need extra control.

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If you don't like the new aero, I'd recommend to try FAR. This might sound crazy, but imho FAR indeed makes launching rockets easier than stock.

The atmosphere is even less soupy with FAR (=even slightly lower dV requirements), and the gimballing range of all rocket engines is buffed by a factor of 1.5. This makes it much easier to keep even unstable rockets under control.

Apart from that I can only repeat what others are writing: Put fins at the bottom of the rocket, don't do rapid turns (keep your heading within the surface prograde marker), make your payload aerodynamic as well, at least until you get a feeling for how bulky payload may be to still keep the rocket controllable,...

I agree with this. I like the new stock aero better than old, the trick is to look at where your rockets center of mass will be WITH EMPTY TANKS. Full tanks are heavy. Empty tanks are light. If you have a rocket with a long stage on it you end up with most of the weight at the back, which makes your rocket flip. Look at how bottle rockets work, heavy nose, light tail. That's what makes for stability.

The other tricks are: Don't go too fast. Don't turn too quickly. If you are going a reasonable speed (especially in the transonic region), have a sanely designed rocket, and aren't turning outside the prograde marker, add fins.

All that said, I like nuFAR better than the new stock, as it has IMO a saner drag model.

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It just takes practice. Keep at it and before long you will be back to the same skill level you were before (and wonder how you ever flew at all in the soup-o-sphere). Just embrace it as a challenge. I used FAR in the past and even I'm having a little trouble and reverting much more than I used to.

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Oh, give me a break. The one thing that makes KSP such a cut above other 'games' is that it does attempt to seriously describe reality. If I want to play a fantasy game, I'll go to Norrath.

"We learn by doing." -- James T Kirk

"... unless you're using a dumbed-down physics model to make things easy for those who can't handle reality." -- Me.

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So, basically, you're complaining because Squad made the game more realistic so you have to learn the right way to do things? If you're having trouble playing a game then don't blame the game, just look at all of the other things people are doing successfully and learn from your mistakes.

Laythe

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personally im not a huge fan of the aero in 1.x that i tried, while i could get everything to fly there was the weird rockets flipping over at 12km and that just pissed me off as a test i actually made a rocket which was just mk1 command pod then 2 long fuel tanks and an lv45 with 4 of the early winglets and even flying purely prograde and only controlling the turn at launch for a full grav turn it would still flip out,

and before people like nikkyD start trolling me as though im some noob, bear in mind that most of my 1000ish hours of play have been using FAR and over half of the total on RO so its not like i dont understand gravity turns or thrust to weight ratios or simulated Aerodynamics.

but

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I wouldn't call playing with correct atmosphere in a rocket simulation is making it realistic, I would call it playing it as it should be. I think if people are playing a ship simulator and have water not simulated correctly, they would be pissed.

Realistic, for me, is when you have to launch a comsats network before you can even control things on the other side of the planet, planning life support resources to keep your astronauts alive, have decaying RTGs, engine ignition limits, mach effect, random failure, etc.

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as a test i actually made a rocket which was just mk1 command pod then 2 long fuel tanks and an lv45 with 4 of the early winglets

Without a proper second stage or payload that thing will become quite bottom heavy and too fast.

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