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Ask the Mods questions about the Forums!


Dman979

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1 hour ago, 18Watt said:

The 'Theme' drop-down is hard to find.  You have to scroll all the way to the bottom of the page.  Yep, all the way.

If ya haven't tried the dark mode, it is really really nice.  My eyes are happy.

cXk2XKj.jpg

What kind of magic are you using to reveal this "Dark Mode"?

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Just now, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

What kind of magic are you using to reveal this "Dark Mode"?

I'm not laughing at you, I promise.  I couldn't find the thing either.  Look all the way at the bottom.  All the way.  All the way.  See the blue circle with a white bird inside it?  (I think that's the twitter symbol?).  Look right under the blue circle with the white bird.

Under that blue circle is the word 'Theme'.  Click on it.  See what happens.

Don't feel bad.  I think all of us moderators had trouble finding it.  :)

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9 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Headslap.

@JoeSchmuckatelli, I'm being serious- ALL of us moderators struggled to find that thing, even when @Dakota told us exactly where it is!  I have a theory.  The size and font kinda resemble the fine print we see constantly in our lives.  I think our brains are trained to just not see stuff like that at all any more.  Anyway, I promise I'm not laughing at you- I'm laughing with you.  Or maybe just near you?

Edit:  That option has been there for about a month or so, I think.  If I had to guess how many forum members have found it, the number I would guess is not a very large number..

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Bug report:

When looking at topics posted by an user (in his profile) you can hover over topic titles to get a preview of first/last post. The background of this preview does not fully recognize used forum theme. So it's white text on white background when using dark theme until scrolled down.

forum_bug.png

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So is your whole post. White text on white background on white theme.

Anyway, I wanted to ask how to access most of the editor tools like quotes, code box, lists etc, on mobile, because swiping definitely doesn't work. Unless I have to use old [-quote]

Quote

which I've been doing for a while here.

Edited by The Aziz
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1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

So is your whole post. White text on white background on white theme.

Now this is weird. I wouldn't even know if you didn't point it out. What I see in dark theme vs when changed back to default:

Spoiler

1.png

Spoiler

2.png

This post is also a test to see if the culprit was the theme itself or copy-pasting text.

Edited by Piotrr
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Just now, Socraticat said:

I just learned there's a limit on likes. Which stinks, because I really like a lot of stuff here.

Yes there is, it’s prevent abuse by those who think reputation on an Internet forum means something.   :) 

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1 minute ago, Gargamel said:

Yes there is, it’s prevent abuse by those who think reputation on an Internet forum means something.   :) 

Ironically there is more value in limited likes, but it is unfortunate that some members don't get the kudos they deserve because we want to stop abuse. Especially when half the reason people post here is for validation. 

It's a bit like shooting yourself in the foot to keep someone from stealing your shoes. Or even better- it's like opening a toys for tots donation, but only allowing each person to drop off one toy. 

It's seems so... needlessly micromanaged. Let's consider that these points really don't have value and that internet points mean nothing- then why limit them?

Thanks for the quick reply. I would have just "liked it" but instead I have to post my feelings in prose.

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21 hours ago, Socraticat said:

Ironically there is more value in limited likes, but it is unfortunate that some members don't get the kudos they deserve because we want to stop abuse.

It's not just a question of abuse, it's a question of you can't magically invent value.

"Likes" are, in effect, a form of currency.  There are a certain number of them going 'round, and people attach value to them only because they're finite.  Imagine that we installed a forum update so that every post that everyone makes automatically and instantly gets 1 million likes.  That's amazing, right?  Everybody would be overjoyed because everyone would have tons of affirmation, right?

Well, no.  All that would do would be to completely devalue likes and make them meaningless.  That little rush you get when a post of yours gets a lot of likes?  You only get that because not everything gets likes.  Since they're in finite supply, that's what gives value to a thing.  It's an unavoidable rule of economics.  Increasing the "likes supply" is only going to result in "likes inflation" and nothing more.

So, although we understand people's desire to give likes to things and feeling like they "want more"... raising the limits wouldn't improve folks' feelings of kudos, any more than printing a bunch of money will make everyone richer.

There's another issue at play, as well:  Raising the "likes" limit would disproportionately give influence to the loudest voices.  Suppose we allowed 1000 likes per day per person.  The vast majority of members aren't going to use anywhere near their quota (heck, they're not even using their current 25), because they simply don't have time to read 1000 things in a day... but folks who are especially determined and want to make their voices heard above everyone else would have a very  disproportionate influence.  The net effect would be that the large majority of likes in the forum would come from a tiny minority of very "loud", determined people, and would become less representative of the forum population as a whole.

And that right there is, to me, perhaps the strongest argument not to raise the cap.  Our observation has been that the very large majority of users-- we're talking over 95%-- don't come even close to hitting their 25-likes-in-a-day cap.  That doesn't mean they're apathetic, that doesn't mean they're not reading stuff in the forums, and they do issue likes; it's just not dozens a day.  If the overwhelming majority of users don't hit the cap, then that means that the cap is essentially irrelevant to them.

If you're one of the few people who is hitting that cap and feeling constrained by it... well, that means you're especially passionate and/or happen to have a lot of time to devote to the forums, and that's great.  :)  But the fact that you're hitting the limit means that your "voice of approval" is already considerably "louder" than everyone else's, and isn't a persuasive argument to make it even more so.  Let other people have their voices, too.

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12 hours ago, Snark said:

...The net effect would be that the large majority of likes in the forum would come from a tiny minority of very "loud", determined people, and would become less representative of the forum population as a whole.

 ...If the overwhelming majority of users don't hit the cap, then that means that the cap is essentially irrelevant to them.

If you're one of the few people who is hitting that cap and feeling constrained by it... well, that means you're especially passionate and/or happen to have a lot of time to devote to the forums, and that's great.  :)  But the fact that you're hitting the limit means that your "voice of approval" is already considerably "louder" than everyone else's, and isn't a persuasive argument to make it even more so.  Let other people have their voices, too.

Ok, so the first thing I notice is how invested you are in diminishing the influence of your most enthusiastic members.  Isn't this forum for those people, and exactly those people?

There's a subsection in this forum just for giving likes for fun, or just to spam likes... how is that on topic? Is that the abuse we're talking about? Or are there really just too many likes for FAN-made content related to the game? I'm confused and still feel like there's dissonance there.

Maybe the dissonance also resonates from comparing real economic money with internet points. If we print too much money the individual unit becomes worthless, but likes aren't printed. They are generated by traffic. If I post something, it doesn't matter how many likes you have, you only get to post one. So where's the injustice? 

If I like a post, or all of one person's posts, where have I made myself louder? If my threshold of pride is lower than someone else, who should tell me that I should raise my standards? That would seem to be in direct conflict with not judging how others play the game.

Isn't the limit only throttling how much participation members are allowed to have? It's certainly a consideration for me. What do I have to gain from what this forum does that Discord doesn't? That YouTube doesn't?

And why go into pedantry about economics? I'll assume that it's meant for anyone following that may not understand, so that they may understand the references to value we've made so far... but my argument [my argument, not just my observation about another's argument] is not about value. My argument is about censorship and micromanagement. I don't appreciate being told how to govern my appreciation or thankfulness.

Above and beyond that, I'm really put off by telling me to let others have a voice. Have you really just told me to slow my participation and enthusiasm for others? Is my enthusiasm not what this forum hopes to provide for the game? Is it offensive?

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1 hour ago, Socraticat said:

Ok, so the first thing I notice is how invested you are in diminishing the influence of your most enthusiastic members.  Isn't this forum for those people, and exactly those people?

There's a subsection in this forum just for giving likes for fun, or just to spam likes... how is that on topic? Is that the abuse we're talking about? Or are there really just too many likes for FAN-made content related to the game? I'm confused and still feel like there's dissonance there.

Maybe the dissonance also resonates from comparing real economic money with internet points. If we print too much money the individual unit becomes worthless, but likes aren't printed. They are generated by traffic. If I post something, it doesn't matter how many likes you have, you only get to post one. So where's the injustice? 

If I like a post, or all of one person's posts, where have I made myself louder? If my threshold of pride is lower than someone else, who should tell me that I should raise my standards? That would seem to be in direct conflict with not judging how others play the game.

Isn't the limit only throttling how much participation members are allowed to have? It's certainly a consideration for me. What do I have to gain from what this forum does that Discord doesn't? That YouTube doesn't?

And why go into pedantry about economics? I'll assume that it's meant for anyone following that may not understand, so that they may understand the references to value we've made so far... but my argument [my argument, not just my observation about another's argument] is not about value. My argument is about censorship and micromanagement. I don't appreciate being told how to govern my appreciation or thankfulness.

Above and beyond that, I'm really put off by telling me to let others have a voice. Have you really just told me to slow my participation and enthusiasm for others? Is my enthusiasm not what this forum hopes to provide for the game? Is it offensive?

Easy there.  :)   
 

I think you read too deeply into what snark was saying.   I’ll let him explain it again, but it’s not intended to be that deep of an observation. 
 

The simple answer is: it’s been abused in the past, and if we removed the limit, it’d get abused again.   Just like posts in the Lounge don’t count for your post count.    
 

There are some that think post count and reputation count actually mean something.   They don’t.    To prevent abuse of the system, we’ve put limits on it.     End of story.   

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1 hour ago, Socraticat said:

Ok, so the first thing I notice is how invested you are in diminishing the influence of your most enthusiastic members.  Isn't this forum for those people, and exactly those people?

There's a subsection in this forum just for giving likes for fun, or just to spam likes... how is that on topic? Is that the abuse we're talking about? Or are there really just too many likes for FAN-made content related to the game? I'm confused and still feel like there's dissonance there.

Maybe the dissonance also resonates from comparing real economic money with internet points. If we print too much money the individual unit becomes worthless, but likes aren't printed. They are generated by traffic. If I post something, it doesn't matter how many likes you have, you only get to post one. So where's the injustice? 

If I like a post, or all of one person's posts, where have I made myself louder? If my threshold of pride is lower than someone else, who should tell me that I should raise my standards? That would seem to be in direct conflict with not judging how others play the game.

Isn't the limit only throttling how much participation members are allowed to have? It's certainly a consideration for me. What do I have to gain from what this forum does that Discord doesn't? That YouTube doesn't?

And why go into pedantry about economics? I'll assume that it's meant for anyone following that may not understand, so that they may understand the references to value we've made so far... but my argument [my argument, not just my observation about another's argument] is not about value. My argument is about censorship and micromanagement. I don't appreciate being told how to govern my appreciation or thankfulness.

Above and beyond that, I'm really put off by telling me to let others have a voice. Have you really just told me to slow my participation and enthusiasm for others? Is my enthusiasm not what this forum hopes to provide for the game? Is it offensive?

Unfortunately, unlike KSP2, the forums are not a sandbox for likes. I would try not to think about it cause people may just rebut with "don't blame the player, blame the game. there's nothing you can do about it (By game, i mean the forums)". But i agree 200%. I do understand some manipulative sadistic people use, abuse, and diffuse the toxic idea of thinking one is better than another due to likes. But this isn't a toxic community, is it? wait, now that i've seen some recent posts, is it? nah... wait...:o

6 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

Easy there.  :)  

:retrograde:You have been downvoted. (jk). I am a firm believer that thumbs up equals:funds:so i am part of the problem, not the solution

Edited by DAFATRONALDO2007 IN SPACE
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10 hours ago, Gargamel said:

Easy there.  :)   

I think you read too deeply into what snark was saying.  

The simple answer is: it’s been abused in the past, and if we removed the limit, it’d get abused again.   Just like posts in the Lounge don’t count for your post count.    

There are some that think post count and reputation count actually mean something.   They don’t.    To prevent abuse of the system, we’ve put limits on it.     End of story.   

How deeply am I supposed to read 6 paragraphs of someone telling me that value isn't "magically created" and expounding their belief that too may likes ruins the forum?

You keep talking about abuse, but I don't understand how that works. On the one hand I keep hearing that likes don't matter. On the other hand, too many likes from one person somehow skews the content of the forum? How does something that has no value break the forum? Alternatively, if there's a value that we are worried will be inflated, what is the thing, or unit of "currency" actually earning that will lose value?

This is far from the "end of the story" if we are having a discussion- and this particular phrasing is another example of dismissiveness I've encountered from mods in 48 hours. Has this been a sore subject before?

10 hours ago, DAFATRONALDO2007 IN SPACE said:

Unfortunately, unlike KSP2, the forums are not a sandbox for likes. I would try not to think about it cause people may just rebut with "don't blame the player, blame the game. there's nothing you can do about it (By game, i mean the forums)". But i agree 200%. I do understand some manipulative sadistic people use, abuse, and diffuse the toxic idea of thinking one is better than another due to likes. But this isn't a toxic community, is it? wait, now that i've seen some recent posts, is it? nah... wait...:o

:retrograde:You have been downvoted. (jk). I am a firm believer that thumbs up equals:funds:so i am part of the problem, not the solution

I don't follow what you mean by KSP2 and the forums, and the comparison between the 2 for a sandbox for likes.

KSP2 gives me no likes. I can play KSP2 on my own without ever sharing, but I have a great desire to see this game in classrooms and on every teenager's computer. The internet gives me a way to share my gameplay with others and inspire others.

 

 

@Gargamel @Snark  When I come to these forums I hope to do exactly that- share and like what others have shared. I particularly enjoy the challenge section where I've seen some of the most unique challenges. 

But what I don't understand is how one day, when I've been looking forward to finally spending time enjoying the game and the community that supports it, I find out that if I offer too many likes in one area then I won't be able to "appreciate" something else because of some arbitrary limit hidden behind a veil of "data" and "committee deliberation".

If I'm allowed 25 likes a day, but don't get to sit down and give the attention I want to the community until one of seven days... Why set it to a rolling 24hours? Why not set it to a rolling 7 days so that I can have all of the likes I could have used over the entire week?

And how did you come to the conclusion that limiting likes was the best solution rather than just dealing with abusers?

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Don't fixate on the likes you weren't able to give. Think instead of the 1.04167 likes per hour that you did give. You clearly like giving likes, and that's a lot of likes to have given. You'll be able to give more in a day or less.

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8 hours ago, Socraticat said:

You keep talking about abuse, but I don't understand how that works.

Person A goes through and likes every post Person B ever submitted, Person B reciprocates, and then A and B look like the wisest most helpful people on the forum even though the only traits they actually had were a desperation for approval and the patience to keep clicking on the like button. That's the kind of abuse we're trying to avoid. 

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19 minutes ago, Vanamonde said:

Person A goes through and likes every post Person B ever submitted, Person B reciprocates, and then A and B look like the wisest most helpful people on the forum even though the only traits they actually had were a desperation for approval and the patience to keep clicking on the like button. That's the kind of abuse we're trying to avoid. 

So we are saying that likes do have value- that likes make someone look like the wisest most helpful?

Don't they just signify forum participation? As in this person participates a lot?

I get that this will get defended to the end, so I'm not trying to eradicate the limit. But I do believe that these limits ought to be reconsidered from time to time to judge their true utility in context of eras/timelines. It is certainly an odd rule to come across on a forum that promotes positivity (but only at a cap of 25 likes a day). The rest of the commenting rules are pretty lax, so there's a balancing act to be made here. I really haven't felt censored, but the like limit feels like a wierd box to be in. I certainly know how I don't intend to participate here moving forward- that's not a slight, it's just my acceptance of what level of curation I'm going to consider when I visit here. 

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58 minutes ago, Socraticat said:

So we are saying that likes do have value- that likes make someone look like the wisest most helpful?

Ok, for the third time in as many pages: Some people try to abuse the system.     
 

I’m really not sure how we can state this any more clearly for you.     Is this really the hill you’re planning on dying on?   

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