Pilots v Probes - an idea

[pandaman]

Over the last week or so, following a discussion on another thread, I have been pondering over the differences between pilots and probes, and why pilots effectively become useless when using a probe core unless you want to plant a flag or take a surface sample (which you can use a scientist or engineer for anyway).

So... Here’s my thoughts, this is very much a ‘would something like this work in game’ as a foundation for a solution, rather than a final solution in itself, as there are undoubtedly many issues which I haven’t foreseen. Any ‘solution’ must work for the game, and provide a feeling of being sensibly realistic enough and not result in too much ‘number crunching’ so as avoid slowing the game down.

IRL we use probes for long distance exploration because we humans are inherently ‘perishable’ and need all sorts of ‘extra stuff’ to be sent with us as a result, probes therefore allows us to explore places where we couldn’t otherwise explore at all. In KSP the only real restriction in stock is mass, and a personal choice of whether or not you want to risk the life of a Kerbal due to piloting errors.

IRL we are also increasingly use RC drones for many civilian and military purposes (not without controversy) to save cost, and risk of life to an on board pilot.

What advantage is there to using a pilot IRL? Primarily because we can’t (yet) replicate human senses and responses accurately enough in automated and/or RC systems. Good pilots are very aware of their situation and can react immediately if something changes, for example they will feel a gust of wind when landing and correct it instinctively (as the saying goes - a pilots backside is a very sensitive instrument), not something that is easy to replicate even in a dedicated ‘desktop pc’ flight simulator never mind the more abstract KSP.

An on board pilot gives a greater degree of precision and flexibility than an automated or remote controlled probe can, especially when we are talking about astronomical distances and signal time delay.

How can this be simulated in KSP?

I am not going to go into ‘specific numbers’ as that is very much a game balance issue which would need trial and error to perfect.

Assuming that ‘signal time delay’ is not an option for stock I will ignore that.

Essentially probes need to not provide the same level of precision as an onboard pilot, higher tech probes would naturally have better performance than low tech ones, and only the best core on a vessel has an effect so you can’t load up lots of cores and ignore the problem.

Possible and/or options... (All could possibly have a limited random element to how much or how quickly they have an effect)

1. Make probe cores more ‘sluggish’ or less responsive by limiting the maximum torque they can apply through SAS etc. how quickly the throttle adjusts, and how sharply RCS kicks in. More SAS modules than the core can handle will have no additional effect.

2. Introduce a short ‘time delay’ before control inputs have an effect. Making precise control more difficult without mucking about with physics or fundamentally changing their ability.

3. Artificially inaccurate Navball (not sure about this one, but it’s an idea). The Navball could be ‘programmed’ to not quite point in the right direction or respond quickly.

4. The effect could possibly be linked to distance from KSC, but it is probably better for game play to have it constant.

5. A pilot in a pod or cockpit within a sensible distance (maybe 2.5km to tie in with render distance) can take control as if on the vessel, this would allow fine control for docking etc. once a close enough rendezvous was achieved. This could apply to designated ‘Remote Control Units’ and ‘Drone Core’ parts only, and not normal probe cores. This could be implemented automatically, with a pop-up notification when entering or leaving control range. A pilot’s own skill level would of course be applied when in control.

TL;DR - Make probes less accurate and/or responsive, thereby making a pilot a better option when precision is required.

Ok a few ideas there, open for discussion...

Cheers, Pandaman

[Psycix]

Take a look at remotetech. This mod will ensure that probe cores need an active connection, and commands are executed with a realistic time delay.

You need to build comm networks to ensure connection coverage throughout your destinations.

They can also be programmed beforehand, for example to execute a certain burn while not connected through the network.

[Starwhip]

5. A pilot in a pod or cockpit within a sensible distance (maybe 2.5km to tie in with render distance) can take control as if on the vessel, this would allow fine control for docking etc. once a close enough rendezvous was achieved. This could apply to designated ‘Remote Control Units’ and ‘Drone Core’ parts only, and not normal probe cores. This could be implemented automatically, with a pop-up notification when entering or leaving control range. A pilot’s own skill level would of course be applied when in control.

I love this one.

The others, they are "good" but from a gameplay perspective seem way to restrictive. Gameplay/Fun vs. Realism is a very, very hard compromise. Here's a potential idea:

You need to unlock "modules" for probe cores to improve their capabilities.

Another one: Mission control learns more about the concept of remote-control spaceflight the more missions/time in space/achievements you get with a given probe core on the vessel, and adjusts its and the next core's abilities accordingly.

[pandaman]

Take a look at remotetech. This mod will ensure that probe cores need an active connection, and commands are executed with a realistic time delay.

You need to build comm networks to ensure connection coverage throughout your destinations.

They can also be programmed beforehand, for example to execute a certain burn while not connected through the network.

Thanks for that. I can certainly see how that adds a new level of play and gives probes and satellites a real and different purpose. And that is exactly what good mods like that are perfect for.

For this thread I was trying more to look at a simple stock method of giving pilots a worthwhile edge over probes, for things like pinpoint landings and tricky docking manoeuvres in particular, as is currently the case IRL. As it is you don't need a pilot at all for them, as a probe core is just as good, and nowhere near as heavy, so there is just no point other than RP to send a pilot. It's certainly not a game breaker, but it would just add a little extra depth to the game IMHO if it could be done without noticeably impacting game balance and performance.