sdj64

The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge!

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Ziv said:

After several years of Space Exploration Kerbals have gained a lot of experience in building and blasting rockets, spaceships, stations, and landing on other bodies. The government started to look for other fun stuff to support so they want to cut the Kerbal Space Progam fundings. but there is still one huge thing to do: they still haven't landed on any of the Jool moons!

Jebediah called a meeting with the other Kerbonauts and engineers. In face of funding cuts, they have to reduce the number of missions. And so they have found only one solution:

To execute one giant mission, the bravest and craziest of all time, in which they will land on all the moons and come back in one!

Many of the less crazy engineers and sane common Kerbals immediately started to proclaim that this is impossible, even with the bravest and most stupid Kerbonauts and engineers. This idea gained a lot of interest and attention in the public and even in the government. Jebediah and the others realized that with this new, huge publicity the Space Program may be saved and they can continue to do what they love the best! They started to think about the details of this enormous mission...

JNr4SKL.png

LINK to the old Jool-5 thread. There are hundreds of pages of entries and discussion, so look at it to see what worked and what didn't!

 

IMPORTANT INFO
You can still complete the challenge using any previous version (1.0 or higher)!
1.3 has arrived!  You can now compete in the Low Cost Sub-challenge, so let's see what creative money-saving strategies you all come up with.


CHALLENGE RULES

Given the scale of this challenge, everyone who completes the mission successfully gets a spot in the hall of fame.

1. No cheating, including the stock debug menu cheats, HyperEdit, or file editing.  HyperEdit is allowed for testing but get rid of that H when you fly the real mission!
2. No part-clipping of functional parts (fuel tanks, batteries, crew pods, engines, science parts, SAS) into each other. It is okay to clip structural and non-functional parts, wings, and heat shields.
3. Any number of launches are allowed to assemble the ship in Kerbin orbit. All launches must be flown!
4. There's funding for one main ship only so all the crew, lander(s) and other stuff has to go to Jool as one big ship.  The ship can separate once in Jool's SOI.
5. Kerbals must be in a pod or cabin (no seats) for the interplanetary journey. Seats are okay for landing and flying within the Jool system.
6. One refueling mission is allowed in the Jool system if you run out of fuel, unless your ship uses ISRU. The refueling mission can only transfer resources, not parts, to your Jool 5 craft. This mission must actually be flown!
7. On all of the landings, the Kerbal must be able to get out and walk (or swim!) around on the surface.  Make sure your ladders work!
8. Use Normal difficulty or harder, except, any ComNet settings are allowed including turning it off completely.
9. All the Kerbals have to arrive back to Kerbin surface at the end of the mission, happy and alive. You are allowed to optionally send up a craft to return them from LKO.

10. Mods:
STOCK: only mods which do not add parts and do not change physics are allowed.  This includes any informational, planning, visual, autopilot, or automatic functions.
MODDED: Use of most parts mods and certain game mechanics mods are allowed.  You NO LONGER HAVE TO ASK if your favorite part pack is allowed!  Some parts mods are prohibited.  Please see below.
Specific Mods:

Spoiler

Examples of popular mods allowed in stock entries:
MechJeb, KER, KAC, Precise Node, Transfer Window Planner, EVE, Scatterer, Chatterer, Pilot Assistant, Docking Alignment Indicator, TAC Fuel Balancer, Throttle Controlled Avionics, X Science.

Examples of allowed game mechanics mods that would count as modded:
FAR, DRE, Remote Tech, ScanSat, Kopernicus, part welding, any life support, any new science experiments, fuel switchers

Prohibited Mods (powerful enough to make the challenge trivial, or too confusing to judge): 

Tweakscale
KSP Interstellar
Near Future Propulsion
OPT Spaceplane
B9 Aerospace
Kerbal Atomics
Atomic Age
Extraplanetary Launch Pads
OSE Workshop
Impossible Innovations
Solaris Hypernautics
Deep Space Exploration Vessels
Any Orion nuclear pulsed propulsion
Any warp drive or propellant-less space engine
Any physics alteration that makes the challenge easier (reducing gravity, moving the moons, HyperEdit, or debug menu cheats)

ENTRY SUBMISSION RULES
11. Submit your challenge as an imgur album, with good captions and descriptions, as a video or series of videos, or as a thread in Mission Reports.
12. Pictures or it didn't happen! Please keep the resources tab open, as well as show the informative windows from Mechjeb or KER if you use them. Take a picture of every important moment, including transfers, dockings, landings, stagings, and refuelings. For Jeb's Level, also take pictures of the science screen when you recover your craft. Alternatively, video submissions are a great way to show everyone your mission as well. These will help future participants to see exactly how you accomplished each part!

 

CHALLENGE LEVELS

1ST LEVEL: one Kerbonaut lands on all the moons and come back safely.

1st level low mass and low cost sub-challenges: with stock parts and physics, how low can you go and still accomplish the mission?

2ND LEVEL: two or more Kerbonauts land together on all the moons together and come back safely.

3RD LEVEL: There's not enough time left for training one crew member to be an expert on all of the moons, so five Kerbonauts must go to the mission, with at least one unique Kerbonaut landing on each moon.

JEBEDIAH'S LEVEL: collect as much Science as possible!  Your score is the number of science points from the Jool system only, returned to Kerbin (not transmitted).  Only stock experiments count for this!  To score, take pictures of the science screen(s) when you recover the data.  Otherwise, the rules are the same as 3rd Level.


ISRU:  Use of ISRU will get a note ISRU on the entry description in the hall of fame.  This includes stock ore harvesting and converting as well as mods such as Kethane and Karbonite.  ISRU is allowed for any level of completion.

GRAND TOUR:  Not officially part of the challenge, but landing on all planets and moons in the Kerbol system in one mission will earn a GRAND TOUR note and the everlasting praise of all of Kerbal kind.  Rule 4 is waived, but any Kerbals on the mission cannot return to Kerbin in between any landings and you still must follow the other rules.

Additional optional information to help others see how the mission was accomplished:
- Which game versions did you use?
- What mods did you use, if any?
- How many Kerbals are on the mission?
- How many launches were needed to start your mission from Kerbin?
- How much did your mission cost?
- Did you needed a refueling mission?
- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?
- Share the delta-V information too, if you tracked it!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Well, now this big announcement is in the Kerbal News, all the public is excited about this mission and even the Government is watching! Now it's up to you, to the engineers and to the bravest and craziest Kerbonauts of all time!

 

Completion Badge: Anyone who has finished the challenge can add this badge to their signature.  The Low Mass Feather badge is available for entries in the low mass sub challenge.

Z5hSyCv.png          TDIcZyO.png

Spoiler

To display the badge in your signature, copy this code.


 [URL="http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/123950-THE-ULTIMATE-JOOL-5-CHALLENGE-Continuation-for-KSP-1-0%21"][img=http://i.imgur.com/Z5hSyCv.png][/URL]

 

 

1.2 and 1.3 Hall of Fame

1st Level-

DustInTheWind (MODDED, 1.2, reusable nuclear lander, Tylo lander, Laythe plane, 1 refueling mission, also went to Eeloo and Dres, hopes to continue to finish the Ultimate Challenge)

Eidahlil (STOCK, 1.2.1, giant 12000 ton asparagus, no docking, no nukes, no jets, launched straight up from Kerbin to a Jool intercept without orbiting first)

slouis (MODDED, 1.2.1, long stack of landers and boost stages, assembled in multiple launches, collected 7468 science, 3 crew and 1 on each landing)

IncongruousGoat (STOCK, 1.2.2, GRAND TOUR, separate transfer stages for large moon landers, one mothership each for inner and outer planets, ion lander, Eve lander with wings for precision landing)

Jetski (MODDED, 1.2.2, GRAND TOUR, bunch of landers bolted together to make the mothership, pancake ion lander, compact Eve lander, no nuclear engines, unconventional outer planet order - Jool >  Eeloo > Dres > Duna)

HarrySeaward (STOCK, 1.2.2, ISRU, SSTO self refueling plane, separate staged Tylo lander that is also a rover, drove from the equator to the pole on each moon)

foobar (STOCK, 1.3, asparagus drop tanks, plane for Laythe, Tylo lander upper stage doubles as small moons lander)

Jetski (STOCK, 1.3, drop tanks with only one Nerv, compact command seat landers, ion lander, also visited Eeloo and Dres)

Kerolyov (STOCK, 1.2.2, Laythe plane, Tylo lander upper stage doubles as small moons lander, nuclear tug, separate fuel section left in high orbit)

jonny (STOCK, 1.3, ISRU, spaceplane with nuclear engine on the nose, 3 crew, small one-seat Tylo lander, plane lands on Vall by flipping to activate Rapiers)

Xyphos (STOCK, 1.3, no quicksaves, design for safety, nuclear transfer stage with drop tanks, jet lander with parachutes for Laythe, high dV Tylo lander, reused top stage for Vall, ion lander for Bop and Pol)

Low Mass Challenge-

jonny - 43.6 tons

zanie420 - 53.1 tons

Low Cost Challenge-

jonny - 94452 funds

zanie420 - 111869 funds

 

2nd Level-

DerekL1963 (MODDED, 1.2, big 4-pod mothership, similar short wide Tylo and Laythe landers, moon orbit ferry, mothership parked in Jool orbit)

HarrySeaward (STOCK, 1.2.2, ISRU, huge asparagus launch, disposable landers, SRB assisted on Tylo and Vall, main ship mined on Bop and Pol, video)

zeta function (STOCK, 1.3, no nuclear engines, asparagus tanks and Mainsail, disposable multistage landers with seats, Laythe rocket lander with Thud engines, rescued Laythe lander using refueling mission)

IncongruousGoat (STOCK, 1.3, crew and science pod with modular lander attachments, cage-like mothership keeps landers centered, gravity assists, career with limited tech)

 

3rd Level-

Nefrums (STOCK, 1.2, launched in an SSTO, fully reusable without mining, Laythe plane, all landers packed into a Mk3 cargo bay long+short size)

JessShadowheart (STOCK, 1.2, divide and conquer with each lander splitting in Jool SOI and meeting back up afterwards in Tylo orbit, plane to return to Kerbin)

IncongruousGoat (STOCK, 1.2, small mothership, Laythe and Tylo landers with their own transfer stages, ion lander for Bop and Pol, mothership parked in Vall orbit)

JacobJHC (STOCK, 1.2.1, mothership with many drop tanks, modular ion ferry and command seat landers took the Kerbals to the moons, fixed video here)

Magzimum (STOCK, 1.2.1, 25 Kerbals with 5 landing on each moon, interchangeable lander crew/upper stage, Laythe planes deployed from lander, giant mothership refueled at Minmus but did not carry ISRU to Jool)

AeroGav (STOCK, 1.2.2, ISRU, 7 Kerbals, large spaceplane carrier, rover, separate Tylo lander, lounge constructed from parts in a cargo bay, razor thin TWR and fuel margins many times)

Alchemist (STOCK, 1.3, ISRU, two space shuttles with 4 crew each, Laythe shuttle brought a mobile base and a hydrofoil plane, Tylo shuttle brought onboard ISRU, also completed the Shuttle Challenge V5 and Elcano Challenge)

 

Jeb's Level-

zanie420 (STOCK, 1.3, ISRU, 56927 Science, small SSTO plane with mining and science equipment, 6 crew, small one-seat Tylo lander)

Cpt Kerbalcrunch (STOCK, 1.3, 1510 Science, no nukes or jets, Mk 1-2 pod switched between landers for each moon, 3 Kerbals per landing with 5 total, landers stacked in middle of transfer stages)

 

1.1 Hall of Fame

Spoiler

 

1st Level-

Aegolius13 (1.1.3, low part count Mk3 mothership, high delta V landers, Laythe plane, flyby maneuver at Vall)

Nefrums (1.1.3, using KScale64 (6.4x rescale!), enormous single launch, many nuke stages, 13000 dV Tylo landing, vertical jet Laythe lander, high speed reentries)

 

Low Mass Challenge-

Nefrums - 12.511 tons (1.1.0, plane launch, single Rapier for Kerbin ascent and Laythe, Ion scooter with almost 6000 Ec did Vall Bop and Pol, Tylo lander with no-electric final stage)

Mesklin - 10.775 tons (1.1.2, antenna used as heat shield, Ion scooter, tiny LFO Vall lander, Tylo lander with no batteries or SAS, jumped out to land back at Kerbin)

Nefrums - 8.600 tons (1.1.2, drag minimizing design, only 3 engines, extensive gravity assists, jetpack use, and fuel minimization, staged batteries to land on Vall with ions, jumped out to land back at Kerbin)

 

2nd Level-

Derpiderp (1.1 pre-release, used the inflatable heat shield, separate landers for each moon, middle of ship becomes ion-powered return craft, took breaks to watch YouTube, video submission)

Ripper2900 (1.1.3, ISRU, modular stacked design, no nukes or ion, creative rearrangement mid-mission fixed Tylo lander problem)

 

3rd Level-

Sean24135 (1.1.2, big mothership, aerodynamics on opposite day, Tylo lander top stage does small moons, VTOL jet Laythe lander)

littlebuddy0 (1.1.2, long skinny mothership with lots of RCS, tiny landers for each moon, Laythe submersible spaceplane, video submission)

Thomas H. (1.1.3, giant single launch, dozens of RemoteTech satellites, all 5 Kerbals landed at the same time, KOS landing algorithm)

 

Jeb's Level-

Paranoid Shark (1.1.3, ISRU, 13016 Science, two modified Space Shuttles, small landers for airless moons, shuttle landing on Laythe, tiny atmospheric exploration plane)

 

1.0 Hall of Fame

Spoiler

 

Level 1:

Stratzenblitz75 (1.0.2, First completion in 1.0, video submission, near-death reentry, no docking!)

E805BzRo (1.0.4, Laythe plane, Tylo lander with top stage that landed on all the other moons, big nuclear powered mothership)

JebsDead (1.0.4, UFO styled mothership, Laythe plane, 2 crew, video submission)

IncongruousGoat (1.0.5, 3 crew on the mission, tall Laythe lander, much asparagus, career mode without all tech researched)

Jetski (1.0.5, modular mothership, one command pod shares all landers, going for the Ultimate Challenge but left early to do this one)

EvermoreAlpaca (1.0.5, Grand Tour!, single launch, no refueling, crazy ion landers with enormous battery capacity, lauched on a plane, whole thing is recovered back to Kerbin except the Eve lander, video submission)

JacobJHC (1.0.5, tiny asparagus, mothership with asparagus tanks, bonus Minmus visit, video submission)

---Low Mass Sub-challenge Entries:

1. Nefrums (13.485 tons, 1.0.4, high orbits for efficiency, multiple gravity assists, tiny fuel tanks and just enough to make it home, battery powered ion lander that can land on Vall, plane style launch from runway)

2. Mesklin (18.821 tons, 1.0.4, whole craft starts under a fairing, battery powered ion lander, purposeful overheating to shed weight on Kerbin ascent, plane style launch from runway)

3. Nefrums (19.996 tons, 1.0.4, ion scooter lander, great use of high elliptical orbits to minimize dV requirement, plane style launch from runway)

4. astrobond (23.925 tons, 1.0.4, tiny tiny landers and lots of gravity assists, plane style launch from runway)

Level 2:

iLikeRovers (1.0.4, efficient specialized landers, 4 kerbals on mission and 2 per landing, awesome .gif animations of landing and staging)

Foxster (1.0.4, single lander for all moons, huge mothership and nuclear tug)

Starhawk (1.0.4?, 3 kerbals on all landings, plane for Laythe, lander with outer stage for Tylo and core that landed on the smaller moons, long mothership with ring of nuclear engines, creative refueling mission prompted rule #7 clarification)

Claw (1.0.5, brought rovers and a boat for Laythe, ground circumnavigations of each moon!, nuclear transfer tug/lander combination for small moons)

Level 3:

nigelvn (1.0.4, plane for Laythe, two hulled mothership with the landers in between, no aerobraking to enter the Jool system or on return to Kerbin, multiple drop pods for returning the crew)

steveroof (1.0.5, small mothership, multi-use transfer stage, tiny lander with Tylo and Laythe boosters, precarious (hilarious) crew switching, video submission)

Byronacles (1.0.5, simple approach, universal lander top stage, Tylo and Laythe stages, unique style with long thin external tanks on most craft)

Typrax (1.0.5, separate disposable lander for each moon, overcame and recorded several problems during the mission, used an RTG as a structural element)

Thalamask (1.0.5, small efficient landers, Tylo stage had to be delivered before going to Laythe, then back to Tylo, top stage doubles as small moon lander, refueling mission required)

Jeb's Level:

Nefrums (45513 science!, 1.0.2, huge ship, two launches from Kerbin, multple biome landings, rover for Tylo, plane for Laythe)

sdj64 (11473 science, 1.0.4-1.0.5, Grand Tour!, single launch, no refueling, ion and LF landers with disposable stages for Laythe and Tylo, long skinny mothership with lots of drop tanks, big heatshield made from a fairing)

Draradech (16623 science, 1.0.5, enormous single-stage reusable mothership, high mass but low part count craft, daring rescue intercepting ship on Kerbin escape trajectory)

ISRU Level:

EvermoreAlpaca (1.0.4, Grand Tour!, separate Eve lander, huge SSTO mining ship that used nuclear and Mammoth engines, dockable rovers for exploring on planet surfaces, video submission)

cubinator (1.0.4, Almost a grand tour! Every planet except Eve, four crew SSTO with 5300 delta V, no landing gear, no parts discarded)

astrobond (1.0.4, Almost a grand tour! Every planet except Eve, big stylish ship with one engine, two crew, no parts discarded)

EBAO (1.0.4, brought a lab, 5909 science, ion scanning satellite, USI Life Support, many videos, no parts discarded)

vasco (1.0.4, 59661 science, small-ish all-in-one ISRU ship, 3 crew, landed in all the biomes)

Mikki (1.0.5, large mothership with lander cage, separate ISRU lander, 3 crew landed on Tylo and Laythe and 2 on the other moons, scanning satellite and asteroid tug, career mode, 3304 science)

astrobond (1.0.5, compact SSTO mining ship with 4 crew, 7855 science, no parts discarded)

Racescort666 (1.0.5, enormous complicated mothership with two miners, 6 Kerbal crew, "tour pod" that landed on all moons)

rudi1291 (1.0.5, massive mothership, Pol orbit station left behind, only mined on Pol with 30+ trips, 3 Kerbal crew with 2 landing on each moon)

 

 

Edited by sdj64
entries

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il give this a go. i was trying it in 0.90, but now that there is a new thread i will re-try it! (again)

edit: just realised that i havent touched it in about 6 months! time to restart! (again....stop updating ksp so i don't have to start over...)

Edited by jaddbo

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It has been a while, wayyyy back I began the jool challenge but work, life got in the way of posting the old trip and I still wish to submit my old challenge if it is still open to post using older version of Ksp?

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i might give it a go once i have the time. You should include a grand tour level just like the original challenge. what is the Gatecrashers level?

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Hmm good idea, I will add a grand tour level. Gatecrashers would be for people who miss the requirements sort of like mixed solutions in the old Jool-5. I should probably keep it as mixed solutions though, to avoid confusion.

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Please clarify: ISRU means mining the resources, not using the part, correct?

EX: If your refueling mission consists of full ore tanks, and you have a ISRU converter on your mothership, would it be considered ISRU in the spirit of the challenge?

Edited by TheBrisbyMouse

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also is there a ÃŽâ€V map now that 1.0.2 has new aero? I guess that the trajectories mod is allowed?

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Okay so i'm thinking about accepting the challenge but I plan to

a) launch the ship (minimum fuel)

B) refuel it in kerbin orbit with enough fuel to get to Jool and Pol

c) transfer to Jool, then Pol

d) land and mine untill it's completely full of fuel

Is this acceptable? (cause i'm getting confused here with all the ISRU talking)

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Very glad to see this challenge continuing, thanks for taking it on!

One suggestion: should we reconsider the "no processing/no transmission" rule given the significant overhaul to the Mobile Processing Lab in 1.x? It seems even more so since the update that the MPL is intended to transmit data to Kerbin, and is NOT ever intended to land on the surface :)

I'm guessing that the rule was written because of the difficulty of scoring transmitted science--it does not appear in a nice neat window at the end. So if are to count transmitted science, the burden of accounting for it and proving it came from the Jool-5 entry falls entirely on the entrant. I'd propose the following to encourage people to bring and use an MPL, while keeping in the spirit of the original challenge:

--You can load an experiment into the MPL and get science for transmitting the processed data; in V1.x you can also get science points for the unprocessed observation. To get points for the unprocessed observation you must bring it to Kerbin surface in a pod or MPL.

--Science points may be transmitted ONLY from an MPL, and ONLY for data that was processed in the MPL.

--Include documentation of every experiment loaded to the MPL and every experiment from it. No proof, no points.

Does it make sense? Is it too complicated? Anyway I will start working on my ship and landers for this once the crew comes back from Duna!

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I'm not the OP or Ziv, but as I love this challenge (and wish I had the time to do one - was halfway through a v0.90 attempt when Squad dropped v1 and my wife gave birth...) I'll chime in:

Please clarify: ISRU means mining the resources, not using the part, correct?

EX: If your refueling mission consists of full ore tanks, and you have a ISRU converter on your mothership, would it be considered ISRU in the spirit of the challenge?

The spirit of Ziv's original challenge was a one-ship-from-Kerbin-orbit mission. The rule about being able to do one refuelling mission was intended as a last resort for people who've got close but run out of fuel. You shouldn't plan the mission around being able to refuel. Not taking a convertor saves you a few tons of mass ;)

also is there a ÃŽâ€V map now that 1.0.2 has new aero? I guess that the trajectories mod is allowed?

Some of the maps have been updated. The only real change is the delta-v required to reach Kerbin orbit and land/return from Laythe.

Ziv's rules always said that a mod that gave information was absolutely fine. It's over-powered part mods he didn't like.

Okay so i'm thinking about accepting the challenge but I plan to

a) launch the ship (minimum fuel)

B) refuel it in kerbin orbit with enough fuel to get to Jool and Pol

c) transfer to Jool, then Pol

d) land and mine untill it's completely full of fuel

Is this acceptable? (cause i'm getting confused here with all the ISRU talking)

Yes, but because you'll be using resources in-situ, it'll be an in-situ resource usage (ISRU) mission i.e. different scoreboard.

One suggestion: should we reconsider the "no processing/no transmission" rule given the significant overhaul to the Mobile Processing Lab in 1.x? ... Does it make sense? Is it too complicated?

This gave me a headache, but I'm lacking sleep. My opinion would be to leave it as-is or else it'll make reviewing submissions much, much harder. I never wrote up my first attempt as there were just too many screenshots and it turned out my notes weren't as complete as I thought they were - was hard enough for me to go through it all, let alone get someone else to do so!

Also, loading an experiment into a lab as data to be processed doesn't use up the experiment - the experiment itself can still be taken home. So I don't see the need to allow transmissions.

Edited by ElWanderer

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...*checks list*

...*double checks*

...Awww yiss, HyperEdit's in the clear! xD

But seriously folks: I for one can promise to use it only as an anti-Kraken defense, but perhaps a disclaimer ought to be in the OP detailing mods that may be present, but must not be used to progress the mission.

*triple checks*

Okay, so it is mentioned, but I feel like there should be a little parenthetical statement about HyperEdit in the approved mods list. xP

Edited by parameciumkid

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This is really against my better judgment given my limited experience with KSP, but I'll enter. I'll draw up a list of mods I'll use/choose not to use any, start up a sandbox game, get something that I think will mostly work, then figure out how to record my gameplay and post it to youtube.

On the topic of mods, I see KAS is listed as approved. Is that still true since it now requires KIS? I have visions of making one lander and carrying small parts like parachutes and airbrakes to attach to it since I'm not sure what order I'd be visiting the moons.

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Please clarify: ISRU means mining the resources, not using the part, correct?

EX: If your refueling mission consists of full ore tanks, and you have a ISRU converter on your mothership, would it be considered ISRU in the spirit of the challenge?

Okay, here is a simple clarification: If you mine any fuel after leaving Kerbin, your entry is on the ISRU level. Though, I can't think of a good reason for an ore refueling vessel besides smaller size?

...*checks list*

...*double checks*

...Awww yiss, HyperEdit's in the clear! xD

But seriously folks: I for one can promise to use it only as an anti-Kraken defense, but perhaps a disclaimer ought to be in the OP detailing mods that may be present, but must not be used to progress the mission.

*triple checks*

Okay, so it is mentioned, but I feel like there should be a little parenthetical statement about HyperEdit in the approved mods list. xP

Hmm seriously, it's prohibited in rules 1 and 4... I'll put it in red as well.

Mods that aren't listed in the mods list are prohibited until someone asks about them and they get reviewed. I'll try to be just about as strict as Ziv was, though. Nothing more powerful than stock.

This is really against my better judgment given my limited experience with KSP, but I'll enter. I'll draw up a list of mods I'll use/choose not to use any, start up a sandbox game, get something that I think will mostly work, then figure out how to record my gameplay and post it to youtube.

On the topic of mods, I see KAS is listed as approved. Is that still true since it now requires KIS? I have visions of making one lander and carrying small parts like parachutes and airbrakes to attach to it since I'm not sure what order I'd be visiting the moons.

I'll confess that I've never used KAS. It was allowed in Jool-5 pre 1.0 so I just kept it in the approved list. I'll have to take a look at it.

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I'll throw my hat in. Might as well go big as I rework my ships to fit 1.02. Here's to success or spectacular failure. I'll report back as soon as I encounter (and document) one of those two imposters.

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I'm probably going to give this a shot, most likely with ISRU. I was planning on doing a Jool mission, but without visiting Tylo, and with 2 ships instead of 1. I'll have to rework the whole mission to make it one ship, and making a Tylo lander will be tricky.

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as for hyperedit of course it should be banned while on the challenge but for the build phase i would suggest its use in order to test landers.

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Does it have to be the same kerbals on all moons?

If we run out of fuel or need to conserve fuel can we get out of the ship and push it with the EVA jetpack?

Can we use multiple ships (like one on each moon) going back and forth from a bigger ship?

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Great to see this challenge resurrected! Looking at the list of allowed/disallowed mods, a couple questions:

KW, SpaceY, and Near Future Solar all have parts significantly more powerful than stock (5 meter rockets/tanks and bigger SRBs for KW and SpaceY, big/efficient solar panels for NF), should these really be allowed?

Conversely, what do Tantares and FASA have that's overpowered compared to stock, or is there some other reason for disallowing them?

Also, what's the word on the Corvus and K2 2-Kerbal pods, Home Grown Rocketry, Modular Rocket Systems, Procedural Parts? First two seem harmless, HGR probably harmless too, not sure about MRS, PP I ask about purely because it isn't specifically mentioned.

Last, and this is entirely my opinion--I personally disagree with keeping ISRU in a separate category in a 1.0 version of Jool-5. This made sense back when you needed a mod to do it but now that it's a stock capability I think disallowing it is against the spirit of the challenge (which I see as "stock and stock-like capabilities only"). Not a huge deal, just my feeling.

PS. Just noticed OP asks for links to mods in question; added them.

Edited by Hotaru

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Another question, can you post the mission report of the JOOL 5 challenge in 'Mission Reports? In that way I can have my 'own' thread with feedback etc.

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I'll go for this. I've started a craft in the previous version but I'll try it on 1.0.2 too. I'm just waiting for B9 to be available for 1.0, because I will certainly "need" this mod.

Plus I intend to make a video of it, so I'll take some time...

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Does it have to be the same kerbals on all moons?

If we run out of fuel or need to conserve fuel can we get out of the ship and push it with the EVA jetpack?

Can we use multiple ships (like one on each moon) going back and forth from a bigger ship?

As long as your whole ship goes from Kerbin to Jool in one piece, you can split into multiple parts once you get to Jool. All kerbals used in the mission have to fly to Jool on your ship, but you can have different kerbals for each moon (Level 3) or the same one or two kerbals that land on all the moons (Level 1 and 2). Pushing with the jetpack isn't exactly cheating, but try to avoid it.

Great to see this challenge resurrected! Looking at the list of allowed/disallowed mods, a couple questions:

KW, SpaceY, and Near Future Solar all have parts significantly more powerful than stock (5 meter rockets/tanks and bigger SRBs for KW and SpaceY, big/efficient solar panels for NF), should these really be allowed?

Conversely, what do Tantares and FASA have that's overpowered compared to stock, or is there some other reason for disallowing them?

Also, what's the word on the Corvus and K2 2-Kerbal pods, Home Grown Rocketry, Modular Rocket Systems, Procedural Parts? First two seem harmless, HGR probably harmless too, not sure about MRS, PP I ask about purely because it isn't specifically mentioned.

Last, and this is entirely my opinion--I personally disagree with keeping ISRU in a separate category in a 1.0 version of Jool-5. This made sense back when you needed a mod to do it but now that it's a stock capability I think disallowing it is against the spirit of the challenge (which I see as "stock and stock-like capabilities only"). Not a huge deal, just my feeling.

PS. Just noticed OP asks for links to mods in question; added them.

Thanks for the links. KW, SpaceY, and NovaPunch were allowed in the old Jool-5 challenge so I kept them allowed. The engines are balanced in ISP against stock, but the mods do allow lower part counts. I thought about including NF Solar because when I used it before 1.0 it was relatively balanced compared to the small 1x6 and 2x3 panels. At Jool most solar panels will be relatively useless anyway. I'll look at it again.

HGR and MRS are pretty nice and stock balanced, at least they were last time I used them, so I'll put them in. Edit: MRS is already allowed, first one in the list.

The K2 pod looks good, the Corvus pod is too lightweight compared to stock for two Kerbals.

Tantares has several parts, especially the crew parts, that are much smaller and more lightweight than stock, that's why it's not allowed.

I would say procedural parts is overpowered. It's one thing to have larger fuel tanks, or more variety of fuel tanks, but it's a significant advantage over stock to be able to customize a tank or other component exactly the size you want.

Another question, can you post the mission report of the JOOL 5 challenge in 'Mission Reports? In that way I can have my 'own' thread with feedback etc.

Yes, you can.

Thanks all for bringing my attention to mods, hopefully we can work out the approved mod list soon so it won't change much later.

Edited by sdj64

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Thanks for the links. KW, SpaceY, and NovaPunch were allowed in the old Jool-5 challenge so I kept them allowed. The engines are balanced in ISP against stock, but the mods do allow lower part counts. I thought about including NF Solar because when I used it before 1.0 it was relatively balanced compared to the small 1x6 and 2x3 panels. At Jool most solar panels will be relatively useless anyway. I'll look at it again.

HGR and MRS are pretty nice and stock balanced, at least they were last time I used them, so I'll put them in.

The K2 pod looks good, the Corvus pod is too lightweight compared to stock for two Kerbals.

Cool, thanks!

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Alright, mod time. I'd like to use (That isn't on the approved list): Kerbal Inventory System, Dang It!, Throttle Controlled Avionics, Fuel Tanks Plus, Heat Management, Jettison Fuel, Trajectories, and the aforementioned Kerbal Attachment System.

Kerbal Inventory system is relevant because it adds the ability for Kerbals to attach small parts to exterior of already launched vessels, or move said parts around, such as parachutes, struts, and batteries. I absolutely would use it to stabilize a multicomponent ship enough to survive physics warp and thus a 20-minute burn or so in a reasonable timeframe, or detach now-useless components from a lander to keep the remains of its fuel tank, all cards being on the table. But I'd pay a price in weight and complexity for that benefit.

Dang It essentially causes things to fail randomly. Command pods can carry a limited supply of spare parts, but it's essentially a tax on over-complex designs.

Throttle Controlled Avionics manipulates engine thrust levels individually to maintain stability on asymmetric designs, especially in atmosphere. It'd be useful for the initial launching of things like Ion Rings.

Fuel Tanks Plus offers an assortment of stock-balanced fuel tanks approximately 1.5x the length of said stock tanks. It'd essentially be a way to reduce part count and this increase the portion of the mission I can actually fly. For instance, my Laythe lander could lose three parts with no difference in delta-V, thrust, weight, or CoM with this mod.

Heat Management adds a set of purpose-built radiators and heat sinks. It's essentially a more intentional way of achieving the same result as attaching an LV-N to an orange tank with 8 Big-S Delta Wings radiating from it.

Jettison Fuel adds the ore tank's jettison function to regular fuel tanks. It does nothing but allow dumping fuel into space.

Trajectories is a useful mod I've recently located that calculates a landing point on planet surface while factoring in atmospheric drag and planet rotation. It's only functions would be to prevent splashdown on Laythe and drop my return stage directly on to the KSC.

Kerbal Attachment System allows things to winch in other things, drag them around, or lay fuel pipes and such between two pre-built points. My use for it would primarily be to simplify docking or potentially right a fallen lander.

On Mechjeb... Some of my components' launch vehicles are turning out to be big enough that I can't control them during initial ascent in Kerbin's atmosphere. Is it all right to use the autopilot in that instance?

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As long as your whole ship goes from Kerbin to Jool in one piece, you can split into multiple parts once you get to Jool.

I'm probably just nitpicking here, but that's gonna be my first challenge, so I don't want to fail on the planning phase. How you define 'getting' to Jool? Actual orbit around the planet? Being in it's SoI? Being closer to it than Kerbin? How about if I split once the burn towards Jool is complete? Assembling and launching a big ship is fun, but the exact moment of decoupling feels kinda' important.

Also, do I need to get purely cosmetic mods approved? Namely Crowd Sourced Science and Chatterer?

EDIT: nevermind, just noticed that such mods are OK.

Edited by Evanitis

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Thanks for the links. KW, SpaceY, and NovaPunch were allowed in the old Jool-5 challenge so I kept them allowed. The engines are balanced in ISP against stock, but the mods do allow lower part counts. I thought about including NF Solar because when I used it before 1.0 it was relatively balanced compared to the small 1x6 and 2x3 panels. At Jool most solar panels will be relatively useless anyway. I'll look at it again.

[...]

I would say procedural parts is overpowered. It's one thing to have larger fuel tanks, or more variety of fuel tanks, but it's a significant advantage over stock to be able to customize a tank or other component exactly the size you want.

IMHO, Procedural Parts is less overpowered than KW or NovaPunch. PP is finebalanced against stock, it won't give any weight savings (except for being able to fine tune the size and part reduction), the weight to fuel ratio is exactly stock.

On the other hand KW & NP have a greater influence on design, stronger engines make it far more easy, balanced against stock (which can't be a point against PP then) or not. Just look at the nuclear engines...

It's harder to go with stock engines than stock fuel tanks, isn't it?

I do not see the neccessity to include them just because they were present in the old contest. Backward compability is not a must. The less mods involved the better, maybe it would be better to reduce the list?

Maybe you should give extra score for being close to stock as possible? Say stock only plus MechJeb?

Edited by Carraux

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