sdj64

The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge!

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Also, if I send it up slightly empty and send up other ships to transfer fuel to it in LKO before leaving Kerbin's SOI, does that count as a refueling mission or assembly in Kerbin orbit? And the refueling mission can be unmanned, correct?

I've asked that question in the previous version of the challenge. If I remember correctly, the refueling mission in LKO is considered as part of the assembling process. The refueling mission mentioned in the rules is when you're already in the Jool system and need to refuel. Don't know about the (un)manned part...

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Just realized the fairing in what I'm hoping will be my entry clips slightly with the decoupler:

http://i.imgur.com/8YLNaSFl.png

It's so little clipping it let me do it without any sort of cheating. Is this okay?

Also, if I send it up slightly empty and send up other ships to transfer fuel to it in LKO before leaving Kerbin's SOI, does that count as a refueling mission or assembly in Kerbin orbit? And the refueling mission can be unmanned, correct?

That's nothing, don't worry. I might call shenanigans if half of your payload is sticking out of a fairing, but that little is perfectly acceptable. Especially if the editor let you do it without tricks of moving things around. Yes, you are allowed to refuel your ship in Kerbin orbit before leaving, as part of the assembly process.

The one refueling mission to Jool can be manned or unmanned, but you can't transfer Kerbals with your ship. Don't give your main ship only four crew members and swap out one with your fueling mission so you have enough to complete level 3.

Sorry Stratzenblitz75, for spelling your name wrong in the hall of fame. That has been fixed.

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I'm finally gonna do this.

Finally.

Also, is there a chance you could move KIS ans KAS to "allowed"?

Why is it in "prohibited"?

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Okay, asking the following questions regarding exactly what the refueling mission is allowed to do in case I need one. My understanding is that I can't do anything that couldn't be accomplished just as well with manually editing the save file to increase fuel levels (such as using it to push things around)? Are multiple dockings allowed; i.e. can I treat it as a refueling outpost or is it just a one-transfer deal? And is assimilating it into something to serve as an external fuel tank (probably to be discarded later in the interest of saving mass) allowed?

Does it need to be single launch?

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I think I'm about ready to try this, but I've got stuff to do for the next couple weeks. Hopefully I'll get it submitted by early- or mid-July.

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I'll go ahead and give it a shot. I'm running pure vanilla, though (well... Outer Planets mod, but we're not going to Sarnus). I assume this can be run in Sandbox?

EDIT: Scratch that about pure vanilla. Would HyperEdit be allowed just for testing rocket stages/builds without going through the full process of getting to orbit?

Edited by Flyinpenguin117

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For design reasons only can I clip the nose cone into the fuel tank, hiding the probe core in between? What if I add 1 (or 2) batteries and SAS on top of the probe, leaving everything hidden in the nose cone?

It won't cange the performance of the craft nor add extra fuel in very compact spaces, it will only change the craft sillouete. I'll add the probe and batteries and sas anyway, so it's really just a design thing.

RxXBZHV.jpg

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I have completed the Challenge on JEBEDIAH'S LEVEL now.

- Which game versions did you use?

1.0.2

- What mods did you use, if any?

only one: Kerbal Engineer Redux

- How many Kerbals are on the mission?

6

- How many launches was needed to start your mission from Kerbal?

2

- How much did your mission cost?

1898106

- Did you needed a refueling mission?

no

- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage or Passenger Cabins) for the guys during the long journey?

one mk2 Passenger Cabin

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?

one rover for Tylo

45513 Science points

Pics and complete description is in this thread:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/124095-A-noob-exploring-in-career-mode?p=2007946&viewfull=1#post2007946

Edit: I would very mush appreciate some peer reviews!

Edited by Nefrums
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3. You are allowed to edit science points and funds into a new save to have enough money and parts to complete the mission.

9. Use at least 100% reentry heating and at most 100% science rewards, AKA Normal mode or harder. Also, don't use any science increasing strategies.

Doesn't that contradict itself?

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no contradiction.

point 3 allows pre-launch configuration of your starting point

point 9 does not allow for editing changes _during_ the mission

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snip

Looks good! I don't see any cheats whatsoever:).

Complicated mission with a MASSIVE mothership and multiple landers (some of which were cleverly hid in fairings). Even a plane for Laythe and a rover for Tylo!

I enjoyed your biome-hopping science gathering on the mission. 45000 points! Quite a large return on investment!

Also, I liked your smaller, yet nonetheless still important, design choices. For instance, using the air-brakes as heat radiators AND to help keep the ship oriented during areobraking.

I feel that you could of done things a bit more efficiently in some areas, but nonetheless, an excellent Jool-5 Mission; Easily worthy of the Jool-5 badge.

Edited by Stratzenblitz75
Forgetting thngs isn't good for your health

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How long will this challenge be open/valid for? Besides playing KSP for only 1 month, I want to try it... :D

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How long will this challenge be open/valid for? Besides playing KSP for only 1 month, I want to try it... :D

Just like the previous Jool-5 Challenge, this challenge will be open forever, or until Squad does some major overhaul of the game (but that isn't too likely... Right?). Either way, I wouldn't worry about meeting any deadline, take as long as you'd like.

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Okay, thank you! I will start today/tomorrow, but my biggest concern so far is fuel! D:

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Just a few questions. Why is KIS and KAS not allowed? Also, why is ALCOR prohibited? It's not cheaty and it looks cool.

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....snip....

Quite the haul! Having read through your report - I do like the lander design (Sparrow) - and I'm happily convinced that you did all that you have claimed to. I really ought to go to Jool and do this myself...

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I have completed the Challenge on JEBEDIAH'S LEVEL now.

Nice mission! Multiple biomes is the way to go for lots of science, it seems. I like the small moons lander, it has a very nice classic sci-fi look.

Also may I dispute the ruling regarding PParts in the OP? Some of us use only procedural fuel tanks and get rid of all the others in order to save RAM..
Just a few questions. Why is KIS and KAS not allowed? Also, why is ALCOR prohibited? It's not cheaty and it looks cool.

Mods being allowed or disallowed is a tough issue. I think that I would like more people to submit entries, rather than impose restrictions to avoid making it easier. But these mods can do some things that I think are a bit too powerful:

- PParts and Fuel Switch allow filling tanks with only LF. I'll use as an example a ship with one nuke, an orange tank, and a 5 tons of extra mass (crew quarters, reaction wheels, payload, etc). With the tank filled entirely with LF (replacing the space for the oxidizer), the ship is 12 tons dry and has 10196 dV. With stock fuel tanks, giving it the same amount of LF (That is, a second orange tank), the ship is 16 tons dry and has only 7939 dV, not to mention being bigger = harder to get into orbit, slower turning. That's a lot of difference. I used the rocket equation here, so KER or MechJeb might report slightly different numbers.

- KIS could allow a lander to be basically built and unbuilt without requiring creative solutions for docking ports, staging, or multiple landers. For example, a lander can land on Laythe and then the parachutes can be taken off to save weight for later landings. Or lander legs could be added to a Tylo ascent stage after it returns from the surface, that then goes and lands on the small moons. I would like to imagine that when you attach a part in the VAB, engineers run wires and fuel pipes to the other systems to allow it to work, so slapping on a new radial engine, leg, solar panel, or chute on EVA seems a little cheaty.

- Alcor used to be prohibited and I hadn't looked at it recently, but I think they actually increased the weight to a more realistic level since then. It used to be too lightweight for a two Kerbal pod. It will be allowed now.

I'll go ahead and give it a shot. I'm running pure vanilla, though (well... Outer Planets mod, but we're not going to Sarnus). I assume this can be run in Sandbox?

EDIT: Scratch that about pure vanilla. Would HyperEdit be allowed just for testing rocket stages/builds without going through the full process of getting to orbit?

Yes, it can be run in Sandbox (but not Jeb's level since you have no science). HyperEdit is allowed for testing things, yes. Please remove it (or at least hide the H in the toolbar) when you are finished testing, for your challenge attempt.

For design reasons only can I clip the nose cone into the fuel tank, hiding the probe core in between? What if I add 1 (or 2) batteries and SAS on top of the probe, leaving everything hidden in the nose cone?

It won't cange the performance of the craft nor add extra fuel in very compact spaces, it will only change the craft sillouete. I'll add the probe and batteries and sas anyway, so it's really just a design thing.

http://i.imgur.com/RxXBZHV.jpg

Yes, you can hide stuff in the adapter as long as that adapter doesn't contain fuel.

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When I do this challenge can I post a list of my mods and you could review which ones are allowed?

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Are stock informational "cheats" like the temperature overlay allowed?

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Are stock informational "cheats" like the temperature overlay allowed?

Well considering I spam the heck out of F11 during SSTO ascents and aerobraking, I'm not waiting on a ruling. Beginning a 1.0 attempt today. Let the testing, crashing, exploding, and misc stuff begin!

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From the OP:

Any helpful mod is allowed which doesn't add parts and doesn't change the physics (MechJeb, information mods, alarm clocks, enhanced navballs, docking cams, texture replacers, clouds, protractor, fuel balancer, chatterer, etc).

Sounds like you're in the clear.

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Might give this one a go when I get back from Spain. Did the old one and found it fun.

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Guess I'll have to re-think my approach. I aimed to build a "core" ship wich would have all the fuel and propulsion, and then, at the Jool System, I would use the landers. Tested with 3 5m tanks from KWR and a total of 23 nuclear engines (7/tank + 2 on each side) and it would take about 12min to do a 600m/s burn, full throttle... probably too much mass...

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Okay, another question.

I hit the space bar when I shouldn't have on one of my LKO refueling runs, and force quit to try to revert to a point before I screwed it up. I was successful. Hoping that's okay, since it's basically a quicksave/quickload without the hindsight. I already sent off my mothership to Jool so I can't do another rendezvous with it in penance, but my refueling ships are still in LKO if I can send up another thing to rendezvous with those in penance.

Basically, am I disqualified, and if so is there any action I can do to undisqualify myself?

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Hi! I have a couple of questions before I start my attempt at Level 3:

1. An earlier question clarified that we can bring more than 5 Kerbals along with us, such as scientists or engineers. Does everyone have to come back, or can the extras stay behind while the 5 mission pilots return?

2. After each pilot visits their assigned moon, can they regroup with other Kerbals on the surface of another moon, before returning home, or are they only allowed to set foot on "their" moon?

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