[1.0.4]Civilian Population 1.7.5.1 (Update to 1.0.5 in Progress)

[includao]

This mod adds a whole new dimension to KSP... It is MUCH MUCH more fun and rewarding to build a career when you have civilization population and space colonilization in mind.

[seronis]

Would love to see a fork of this designed around USI-LS instead of TAC-LS.

[DigitalProeliator]

Well this is just compatible in the sense it shares the resources. But a small converter to turn food water and oxygen into snacks would be easy enough. Has anyone already made a TAC-LS and USI-LS converter? I personally like the resource manager of TAC but I dont like the perma death of it...

[rabidninjawombat]

Would love to see a fork of this designed around USI-LS instead of TAC-LS.

It already is compatible with both TAC, and USI-LS, (given the fact that you don't need to have either to run CivPop. The Civies will eat food supplied by the farms/biodomes, and reproduce, leave, join or die regardless if your running TAC-LS, USI-LS , or none of the above, its just based on if you have enough farms to support food production for Civilians.

While the civilian food and supplies are the same resource as used with TAC-LS its not required to run this mod.

As mentioned in my long term goals for the project. I do wanna bring this mod a little close into supporting and extending MKS/OKS, and that would include working Supplies into the equation. (Last few weeks have been a killer at work, so havent had as much time to futz around with this as i would like

Edited June 7, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[Minwaabi]

So would "bringing this mod a little close into supporting and extending MKS/OKS" include any rebalancing? One of the Civilian farms seems to be smaller and produce more food than the MKS/OKS equivalent. Also, some of civilian's own parts seem to be not well balanced with each other. One farm is half the size of another and produces about 40% more food. I think the 25 civilian apartment is 1/3 to 1/4 as big as the 50 kerbal apartment, but holds half as many kerbals. I was thinking of making a MM file to see if I could rebalance stuff, but I might wait if you have plans to do any of that. Also, thanks for taking over this mod's development its a great idea.

[rabidninjawombat]

So would "bringing this mod a little close into supporting and extending MKS/OKS" include any rebalancing? One of the Civilian farms seems to be smaller and produce more food than the MKS/OKS equivalent. Also, some of civilian's own parts seem to be not well balanced with each other. One farm is half the size of another and produces about 40% more food. I think the 25 civilian apartment is 1/3 to 1/4 as big as the 50 kerbal apartment, but holds half as many kerbals. I was thinking of making a MM file to see if I could rebalance stuff, but I might wait if you have plans to do any of that. Also, thanks for taking over this mod's development its a great idea.

Re balancing is one the way, first goal was to get everything up and running again.

As far as the size of the apartment size goes, the 25 Civ apartment could use a small bump in size id imagine, till then we can just say they are living in cramped quarters The Large Apartments are Luxury Apartments

Which Farm are you talking about? There are 4 producing farms/biodomes. The 3 orbital ones, and the ground based one. The Largest Orbital one and the Ground based should produce evenly. And the Medium and Small Orbital biospheres produce lower amounts as you go down.

Also will be adding in a Smaller ground based Biodome farm/orchard. (the one on the right)

Edited June 7, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[Minwaabi]

That biodome (on the left in your screenshot) and the biggest orbital farm. Unless I read things wrong, the biodome produces food for 70 kerbals while the orbital one (which appears to be twice as big in the VAB, but maybe not) produces enough food for 50 kerbals.

[rabidninjawombat]

Im assuming those are the two your talking about?

Looks like i need to update those tooltip. Those two pieces produce the same amount of food ( for 70 kerbals) In regards to the size difference, The ground based module would be more efficient than an orbital module, thus the ability to produce the same amount of food in a smaller size

[Minwaabi]

Ah. That explains it. I was thinking that was probably your logic, but I wasn't quite sure.

Also, do you have any plans to change the tech requirements/add ctt support? It seems to me like most of the parts should go down where MKS goes or maybe the colonization tech node. (Like hydroponics, long term habitation, colonization). I was just about to make a MM patch for Seti Ctt, but realized I was actually just using the CTT nodes, so thought it might be something coming down the pipeline eventually anyway. (Or maybe something useful to you if you were already planning on doing it).

[rabidninjawombat]

Ah. That explains it. I was thinking that was probably your logic, but I wasn't quite sure.

Also, do you have any plans to change the tech requirements/add ctt support? It seems to me like most of the parts should go down where MKS goes or maybe the colonization tech node. (Like hydroponics, long term habitation, colonization). I was just about to make a MM patch for Seti Ctt, but realized I was actually just using the CTT nodes, so thought it might be something coming down the pipeline eventually anyway. (Or maybe something useful to you if you were already planning on doing it).

I was planning on a CTT config, but im happy to accept pull requests, if have made one already Ill be happy to test it and throw it in if it fits. I should have the next patch up tonight or tomorrow, with a few additions. DDS conversion is complete except for the biodome tops.... which are giving me a little trouble not being transparent when converted to DDS.

[Minwaabi]

I haven't made it yet. If you are planning on doing that soonish, then I'll probably let you do that. Otherwise, I'll make it and try to figure out what a pull request is and how to do one.

[Vorg]

I just noticed that several of the modules say min. crew to operate: 99. That might be a tad high if the number means anything.

[Cosmic_Farmer]

Finally submitted my model reworks. Hopefully they'll make it into the next version. I didn't really consider the size of the 25-civ housing, so I'll look into that in future. I like the look of the new mini-farm. I'm still planning to rework the old one, though. I've always thought that there seems to be a lot of wasted space in there, so I was planning to move the tanks to the edges, and increase the crop area. I've also been trying to remove the sticky-out bits on the parts, in order to increase the diversity of what can be made from them. I might have lower-profile, wider caps at the edge of the farm, though.

As for new parts, I've been thinking of including some luxury housing. Probably roughly the size and shape of the top half of the 25-civilian apartments. The idea is that they would hold fewer kerbals per cubic-meter, but would produce a small amount of Inspiration. I've even considered making it a sort of university alumni accommodation and adding gothic arched windows, and so on.

Vorg: It appears to do nothing. I have suggested removing the Command module from all civilian parts, except for the largest ones, which could feasibly have enough tech on-board to control the ship.

Been working on putting TAC resource use into all of the gardens which works out fine. Problem is the civilians use a different amount of resources which I've been trying to figure out.

I always use TAC with 12x the standard resource usage, and the civilians seem to use about the same amount as my crew do.

Oh, and rabidninjawombat: See if you can get the new version on the community plugins library page. It links to the old thread.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Cosmic_Farmer

[rabidninjawombat]

Finally submitted my model reworks. Hopefully they'll make it into the next version. I didn't really consider the size of the 25-civ housing, so I'll look into that in future. I like the look of the new mini-farm. I'm still planning to rework the old one, though. I've always thought that there seems to be a lot of wasted space in there, so I was planning to move the tanks to the edges, and increase the crop area. I've also been trying to remove the sticky-out bits on the parts, in order to increase the diversity of what can be made from them. I might have lower-profile, wider caps at the edge of the farm, though.

As for new parts, I've been thinking of including some luxury housing. Probably roughly the size and shape of the top half of the 25-civilian apartments. The idea is that they would hold fewer kerbals per cubic-meter, but would produce a small amount of Inspiration. I've even considered making it a sort of university alumni accommodation and adding gothic arched windows, and so on.

Vorg: It appears to do nothing. I have suggested removing the Command module from all civilian parts, except for the largest ones, which could feasibly have enough tech on-board to control the ship.

I always use TAC with 12x the standard resource usage, and the civilians seem to use about the same amount as my crew do.

Oh, and rabidninjawombat: See if you can get the new version on the community plugins library page. It links to the old thread.

Thanks! Good call on the Community Plugins Library... Did not think to change that.

Reviewing your models now. But by the looks of your screenshots earlier, they look great. And more thank likely ill be glad to include yours in the next patch ( which im hopeing to put out later today.

Should include: a DDS conversion of textures, the new smaller farm, model reworks you included, a new waste recycling loop for creating new Substrate (had already implemented that one before your suggestion Cosmic_Farmer) And a few smaller changes, include CTT compatibility and some reworking of tech tree placement for the stock tech tree.

FYI, this update will require you to delete the old folder (to avoid having two copies of textures) and MAY break ships on Career mode (if you dont have the required tech node unlocked. This should hopefully be the last such change in the foreseable future.

[RoverDude]

Fyi, ping me with anything you need to help this work with MKS, as it's a nice extension. Also for CTT there's a colonization high end node that I had for the mks mk-IVs that this would fit well in.

[rabidninjawombat]

Fyi, ping me with anything you need to help this work with MKS, as it's a nice extension. Also for CTT there's a colonization high end node that I had for the mks mk-IVs that this would fit well in.

Thanks Rover!

Yup i saw that node, would be a perfect spot for the biggest Biospheres

[DigitalProeliator]

Re balancing is one the way, first goal was to get everything up and running again.

I don't know if you would be interested but over the weekend I actually did a re balancing based off of TAC for my own use. I made it so that one civilian uses the same resources as crew from the TAC-LS mod. If you want I can toss together some configs for matching USI-LS if anyone knows the resource rates for a single Kerbal in that mod. I know you said you was busy, and because of the nature of my work I happen to sit around waiting for things to break, so I have the time.

[rabidninjawombat]

I don't know if you would be interested but over the weekend I actually did a re balancing based off of TAC for my own use. I made it so that one civilian uses the same resources as crew from the TAC-LS mod. If you want I can toss together some configs for matching USI-LS if anyone knows the resource rates for a single Kerbal in that mod. I know you said you was busy, and because of the nature of my work I happen to sit around waiting for things to break, so I have the time.

Sure toss the configs my way, Happy to take a look at them. PM me with em when you get a chance.

[rabidninjawombat]

1.6 Update! --Cosmic_Farmer Edition

NOTE: PLEASE DELETE YOUR NetherdyneAerospace FOLDER BEFORE INSTALLING THIS NEW VERSION TO AVOID ANY ISSUES MODELS/TEXTURES HAVE BEEN CHANGED/OPTIMIZED

NOTE: Possible ship breaking issue: Empty biodome shells have been change around, if you have any connected to you base, please disconnect them before updating. Also some tech nodes have been reassigned for better Career mode experiance (PLEASE BACKUP SAVES)

Change log:

• Added CTT (Community Tech Tree) Support.
  
• Reassigned some tech nodes on some parts.
  
• Removed some unneeded textures
  
• Rebalanced food production/Water production
  
• Add electricity usage to all manned crew vehicles (along with electricity)
  
• Added waste recycling loop for Farms/Bio-domes. (takes WasteWater/Waste into Substrate) This will allow you to have a semi-closed loop on most modules
  
• Reduced Civ immigration rate for Civie Docking port (it was too fast.)
  
• Model Optimization (memory reduction and rextuxure to several models) THANKS COSMIC_FARMER FOR YOUR WORK ON THEM!
  

Serious Props to Cosmic_Farmer for shareing the edits he's made to some of the models. I've folded them into the download. Which has saved several MB's worth of memory, and should help some lower end machines run the mod.

This should hopefully be the last major, possible breaking change in a good long time. (no promises though there is a lot of work needed!) I do have a major rextureing to do of all the models (to optimize and reduce memory footprint) But thats a little ways down the road

Some WIP: I was unhappy with how the smaller farm looked, needed a little more work/optimization, so i'll hold it over till the next update.

A Bridge Concept for your Generation Ships: (has a 3.5 meter attachment node in the back, so it will fit the attachments of the largest Biosphere)

A Reactor Concept to provide all the needed Power for Generation Ships: (same 3.5m form factor)

Edited June 9, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[DigitalProeliator]

Haha figures that when I say I tend to have free time at work we get hammered. Ill download the new update and see how they deffer before I send you anything. But overall I just mirrored the resource loop of TAC and Im looking at Roverdudes github for the USI resource chain. Ill let you know how it goes.

[Cosmic_Farmer]

You named it after me. My mumma (Mrs. Farmer, of course) would be so proud.

[Jim Starluck]

Is there anything particular I need to do with the construction drones? I've got two of them on my new orbital construction ship, but when I right-click them, they say Productivity: 0.

[OvermindDL1]

Currently not seeing this mod in the CKAN program for download.

Also looking forward to USI-LS integration to compliment the USI-MKS/OKS, would be nice to have Supplies/Mulch loop with this as well.

EDIT: https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/CKAN/wiki/Adding-a-mod-to-the-CKAN#kerbalstuff-guide for instructions on adding it to CKAN once the CKAN option is enabled in KerbalStuff. It still needs to be listed on CKAN, enabling the option in KerbalStuff just makes it stay updated automatically once it is added, but it has not yet been added up to this moment.

Edited June 9, 2015 by OvermindDL1

[rabidninjawombat]

Is there anything particular I need to do with the construction drones? I've got two of them on my new orbital construction ship, but when I right-click them, they say Productivity: 0.

Unfortunately there is a limit with the way EPL works, in that you need to have Kerbals on board, (to provide the productivity) So you'll need to have a manned capsule of some sort, along with the drone and some non-stupid kerbals, and you should be golden.

I am working on a workaround for this to enable Unmanned construction in a future patch.

Actually that reminds me I missed putting in a productivity rating to all the housing units. That way you can say, example Attach a construction drone to a small house and use that for your Construction Ship

Testing and uploading a quick hotfix in a few minutes for that Will provide some details and screenshots on Building methods for everyones edification!

[rabidninjawombat]

1.6.1 EPL Support Hotfix:

Changelog:

• Added Productivity Rating to all housing modules to assist in-situ building.
  
• Added Launchpad support to all Orbital SpaceDocks.
  
• Added Launchpad support (Groundbased) to the Ground based dock (I wouldn't use anything too heavy with this part... stick with Stakes for heavy objects.
  

Quick In-Situ Building Guide!:

As you know.. these modules are HEAVY! Thats why i highly recommend using ExtraPlanetary LaunchPads to build on site. You need a few things to build. RocketsParts, a Dock/Launchpad/Survey Stakes, and Productivity (Note: Currently Requires Kerbels in a command pod or CivPop building, working on a workaround for EPL's Manned requirements)

Building In Orbit:

Example of a Small Orbital construction ship:

What your need:

• RocketParts Container full of parts
  
• Small Civ House with two non-stupid Kerbals.
  
• A Civilian Contractor Dock (Note: You can also use the EPL Orbital Dock for the same purpose)
  
• Power!
  

Obviously the one downfall of building in Orbit, is you have to ship up rocket parts (So i recommend putting the rocket parts container on a docking port, or at least using KAS to pipe in more parts.

Building on a Planet/Moon:

Example of a Planetary Construction Outpost:

What you need:

• RocketParts Container (the bigger the better, EPL allows for progressive builds, but the less times you have to fill up the container the better )
  
• A Housing unit with non-stupid Kerbals (with some Survey Stakes, and Mallet to place build locations)
  
• At least 1 Laser drill to extract MetalOre from the ground. (make sure you land where there is metal ore, scan the planet first! But thats another tutorial)
  
• A Laser Smelter and CNC Mill (to smelt the ore into Metal, and to Cut the metal into RocketParts) Note: There are EPL parts that do this same function, but i think the CivPop parts look better
  
• A Construction Drone (to act as a Survey Module to indicate where to build)
  
• Optional: A Civilian Landing Pad, to act as a building launchpad for smaller craft, if you don't want to use the Survey Stakes.
  

I should point out that the Survey Stakes require the KIS (kerbal inventory system) to place and work. (check out the EPL thread for more info on how to use them)

A completed Build using Survey stakes and manufactored RocketParts! (this was just a quick build, but this is a great way to place your Large Ground Modules!)

Edited June 9, 2015 by rabidninjawombat