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How to revert to "Pre-1.0"?

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To answer your original question, OP, if you kept the install files for 0.90 (or your folder with everything in it), you can still run it.

There was a thread about the old versions of KSP as well, you should find it on the forums, but I don't know if it features 0.90.

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What worries me are the heavy landing legs on the top of the craft. I would use smaller and lighter ones, but that is just my personal preference.

What really might be the problem is that as soon as your outer boosters are gone, your rocket is lacking the Fins for the Yaw control.

Try putting on 4 fins on the center stack 45° to the boosters so you always have 4 fins even when the boosters are burnt out and jettisoned.

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1.0.3 and 1.1 are both more likely to be like 1.0 - 1.0.2 than anything before those. And who knows what future releases there might be. Do you plan to stay, perpetually, on 0.90, despite any new features that may come along? If not, I'd say you're solving the wrong problem.

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Don't revert, instead ...

Replace the center LV-T-30 and put in a LV-T45 (which has gimbal) and you will be good.

IF you put on all LV-T45's you can remove the fins

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What worries me are the heavy landing legs on the top of the craft. I would use smaller and lighter ones, but that is just my personal preference.

On the subject of which.. has anyone actually confirmed the drag of lander legs? It seems very hack-y to exclude them, but there isn't really much of an option to get around them other than to encase them in a fairing, and every time I've ever tried to use a fairing it's seemed more trouble than it was worth.. maybe an "undersized" stack at the base of the lander to let the legs 'tuck in' behind a straight fairing would work? I dunno... it's an annoyance.

- - - Updated - - -

but as to the original question... yup. Fins to keep the back at the back, and keep it relatively prograde to minimise drag trying to pull it around. Or Moar Control Authoritah. Fins/Gimbal/Reaction Wheels.

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Try Harder

This.

And maybe not harder, but different.

Did NASA start whining that a Lunar program was impossible after the Apollo 1 tragedy? Nope, they just did things differently.

Did they give up Shuttle launches after Challenger? Nope.

Did they just start stranding astronauts in space after Columbia? Nope.

Did Virgin Galactic give up after their recent loss? Nope.

With the amount of success that people have already shown in the release version, it seems to me the issue is not with the game, but with the users who do not want to put forth an effort to learn.

"We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all kerbals. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on Jeb, and only if the Kerbal States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war. I do not say that we should or will go unprotected against the hostile misuse of space any more than we go unprotected against the hostile use of land or sea, but I do say that space can be explored and mastered without feeding the fires of war, without repeating the mistakes that kerbals have made in extending their writ around this globe of ours.

There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet. Its hazards are hostile to us all. Its conquest deserves the best of all kerbalkind, and its opportunity for peaceful cooperation may never come again. But why, some say, the Mun? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask, why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Great Kerbal Sea? ...

We choose to go to the Mun! ... We choose to go to the Mun in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win ..."

-with great apologies to JFK

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I agree with the others.

first, the fins on the center stage, which are currently in a 90° position, put them into 45° and 4x symmetry. that should give you additional control.

then you might add a SAS module, because currently it's only the capsules SAS, which is working.

a gimballing center stage is nice too, especially for flying outside the atmosphere, where the fins don't work anymore.

and take a look at the procedural fairing mod, which adds fairings in the way they are supposed to work.

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My Duna lander/return vehicle + launcher, built in 1.0.2:

B9C8834063CD6FA0581A40939F43955CF196994B

Those big tanks are at least 10m in diameter, yet it flies just fine.

OP: Don't fight the rocket. Don't try to force it to do something it doesn't want to do. Be gentle on the controls and just let the rocket do its thing. Manage your throttle to avoid overheating and/or aerodynamic failures - going full throttle all the time in a high-TWR rocket is asking for trouble.

Remember, double the velocity = four times the drag, half the air density = half the drag, according to the drag equation. Air pressure (and thus density, since KSP ignores temperature) increases exponentially as altitude decreases. In terms of drag, flying at 5km and 150 m/s is roughly the same as ~30km and 2400 m/s. The first 10-15km are the worst, but after that the drag drops off very quickly. Just take it slow when you're ascending out of the thick lower atmosphere. Throttle down if you start seeing shock cones or flames.

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well try harder? I spent a lot of time with this game and simply don't want to have the chore of custom building every rocket to get it into orbit.

What happened with mech jeb??? apparently you have to custom tweek it just to get anything into orbit, hey I want to play not wast time building and rebuilding rockets to get into orbit. Not everyone wants to manually pilot rockets into orbit.

If so then why do a lot of purist players use hyper edit to put their landers into eve orbit, Do the not want to spend the time launching them, orbiting them and failing then rebuilding them again and aganin to prove they will work???

Yea nasa didn't give up with the Apollo 1, but they didn't just build it and launch it into the sky hoping it would fly and with the drag/atmosphere change that's what we are having to do....

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well try harder? I spent a lot of time with this game and simply don't want to have the chore of custom building every rocket to get it into orbit.

What happened with mech jeb??? apparently you have to custom tweek it just to get anything into orbit, hey I want to play not wast time building and rebuilding rockets to get into orbit. Not everyone wants to manually pilot rockets into orbit.

If so then why do a lot of purist players use hyper edit to put their landers into eve orbit, Do the not want to spend the time launching them, orbiting them and failing then rebuilding them again and aganin to prove they will work???

Yea nasa didn't give up with the Apollo 1, but they didn't just build it and launch it into the sky hoping it would fly and with the drag/atmosphere change that's what we are having to do....

You have been on quite a spree, posting complaints about 1.0's new aerodynamics. please refer to the link below and perhaps we can assist you.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/124243-How-to-revert-to-Pre-1-0?p=1993797&viewfull=1#post1993797

- - - Updated - - -

also, look here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/116993-Helpful-1-0-observations

Edited by r4pt0r

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a spree more like a rant but thanks for being nice about my comments.

Just frustrated, rebuilding several rockets several times to get a mapper into orbit then when I got it done and thought I had a rocket booster/fin/fuel combination for a standard launch vehicle I find that changing the payload changed the performance of the rock where I cannot use it for that payload and NOW I have to custom design a rocket for it....

All I wanted to do was try out the ore mapping mining but its a becoming work and this is part of my vacation, I wont be able to play for 3 weeks and I just wasted hours on trying to fly a rocket when I should have left the game off.

yea its not been any fun,

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a spree more like a rant but thanks for being nice about my comments.

Just frustrated, rebuilding several rockets several times to get a mapper into orbit then when I got it done and thought I had a rocket booster/fin/fuel combination for a standard launch vehicle I find that changing the payload changed the performance of the rock where I cannot use it for that payload and NOW I have to custom design a rocket for it....

All I wanted to do was try out the ore mapping mining but its a becoming work and this is part of my vacation, I wont be able to play for 3 weeks and I just wasted hours on trying to fly a rocket when I should have left the game off.

yea its not been any fun,

Try this ascent profile when using MechJeb:

Start turn: 5K

End Turn: 55k

Final flight path angle: 3 degrees

Turn Shape: 66

limit acceleration to 20 m/s

Limit turn angle to 5 degrees

It would be more efficient turning earlier and ending the turn earlier with most rockets but this profile will get heavy, awkward, or rockets with little control authority to orbit.

Edit: Forgot to add, If your rocket still flips increase the altitude of when to start your turn to 10k

Edited by WOODY01

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I find that changing the payload changed the performance of the rock where I cannot use it for that payload

But that's absolutely normal. You don't expect a payload with twice as much mass to have the same amount of delta v. And you also shouldn't expect a payload with fairing twice as big as the previous fairing to behave exactly the same. That's why real rockets usually don't just have a standardized core but also standardised fairing sizes.

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Yea nasa didn't give up with the Apollo 1, but they didn't just build it and launch it into the sky hoping it would fly and with the drag/atmosphere change that's what we are having to do....

What do you think Mercury and Gemini was?

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I think its all a bit silly. Ive got 1700 hrs into this game, and I cannot get ANYTHING into orbit anymore. I have read forums, watched videos, etc. Nothing works to keep any of my craft from flipping out.

If I were a new user, I would shelve this game in a heartbeat. I am hopefully waiting for some fix to come along, someday. (Besides reverting to an earlier version).

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well try harder? I spent a lot of time with this game and simply don't want to have the chore of custom building every rocket to get it into orbit.

What happened with mech jeb??? apparently you have to custom tweek it just to get anything into orbit, hey I want to play not wast time building and rebuilding rockets to get into orbit. Not everyone wants to manually pilot rockets into orbit.

If so then why do a lot of purist players use hyper edit to put their landers into eve orbit, Do the not want to spend the time launching them, orbiting them and failing then rebuilding them again and aganin to prove they will work???

Yea nasa didn't give up with the Apollo 1, but they didn't just build it and launch it into the sky hoping it would fly and with the drag/atmosphere change that's what we are having to do....

Strangely enough, I had to run RSS/RO to figure this little trick out. MechJeb will work, with pretty much the stock turn profile with the following changes. I start with an SLT of between 1.2 and 1.9 with around 3k m/s2 of dV on the first stage. So far, I use basic fins on my 1.25m rockets. My second stage starts with a TWR (don't use the SLT one for this stage) of between .8 and .9 and between 1.5k to 2k dV. As long as the rocket is relatively aerodynamic, it ought to get the job done. Starting the gravity turn on this when your rocket reaches around 100m/s. For lower SLT TWRs, this is usually around 1.5 km up, higher ones are closer to 1km. Incidently, I have found that if there is a lot of oscillation, then reducing the gimbal on the first stage to around 50% helps dampen out the inputs.

Keep trying buddy! :) Getting the hang of it can be a hurdle, but you'll get there!

Edit: You might consider adding FAR as it allows you to dampen the control inputs from various aerodynamic control surfaces.

Edited by Fizwalker

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I think its all a bit silly. Ive got 1700 hrs into this game, and I cannot get ANYTHING into orbit anymore. I have read forums, watched videos, etc. Nothing works to keep any of my craft from flipping out.

If I were a new user, I would shelve this game in a heartbeat. I am hopefully waiting for some fix to come along, someday. (Besides reverting to an earlier version).

I had a really good time learning the new Aero system. Certainly took some doing, and I had to be much more aware of my rocket designs and ascent profiles, but now I am able to get into orbit at least 90% of the time. I find that the rule of thumb for being at 45% at 10km just doesn't cut it with my heavier designs. I try to aim for the 45km by 20km up usually. Which of course means my rockets are badly made...but they still work!

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I think its all a bit silly. Ive got 1700 hrs into this game, and I cannot get ANYTHING into orbit anymore. I have read forums, watched videos, etc. Nothing works to keep any of my craft from flipping out.

I'd suggest starting a thread describing your problem. Post pictures of the rocket, describe your ascent profile and at what point it flips (especially in relation to staging and your pitch maneuver, both are critical times). I follow those kinds of threads and occasionally chip in, and if the OP is actually interested in learning the new system, they inevitably do. It usually doesn't happen without a little back and forth, as frequently the first suggestions posted don't actually fix the entire problem.

I'd also recommend reading this thread if you haven't, though admittedly it doesn't go into details on TWR or a proper ascent profile.

That said, I can see how the new aero system is less friendly to the new players. Then again, unless we revert to the older aero, the flipping issue will never go away. It might become less pronounced, but you really don't have many options to get rid of it without losing many, if not most, of the improvements of the new aero system.

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anecdotal, just really starting career with experience about a year ago.

Yep, it is different.

My standard lifters so far are chem if needed and first stage to about 24K then my turning engines cruise up. This has worked well even on some very cumbersome paylosds and I am now in the >20Kt range.

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I think people who "can't get into orbit after 10000 hrs of playing the new aero" should post pics of their designs so we can mock them for how bad they are.

And then help them get better

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Center of mass is the key to "the flip." The flip is for more common in early career/science modes than it is later on. The reason for this is that these rockets are fairly light and the fuel in the initial stages make up a significant portion of their overall mass. This means that as the rocket burns its fuel, its center of mass changes drastically. Later multistage rockets have a lot more of their mass invested in engines and upper stages so the fuel consumption in the earlier stages doesn't effect their CoM nearly as much.

A good way to test this is to build a simple rocket using the first liquid fuel tanks and the reliant engine. You should be able to stack enough of them to get enough DV to get into a good sub-orbital trajectory. The key is to lock off the fuel and oxidizer in the top tank (maybe the top 2 tanks) until you are getting low on fuel, then open them back up. This keeps your CoM from shifting too far down the rocket.

Using this design, I had just enough DV just barely get into orbit with no gimbaling engine and no fins at all. My only means of control was the Mk I command pod. The rocket was rock-solid all the way up.

Edited by Netskimmer

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To be honest, in a lot of my designs, I have had to transfer fuel from the lowest fuel tank to the highest in the ascent stage. This keeps my COM well above my COD. I use TAC fuel balancer for this, but I'd imagine you could do it manually in stock.

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As others have stated the center of gravity is the reason behind the flip.

However most of the time the cause is a rocket that is WAY over powered for the payload.

If your rocket is flipping take a serious look to see if you need all that rocket for that tiny payload.

It has been stated by others that adding more fuel does NOT always correlate to more Delta-V.

If you have a > 20 m/s acceleration off the pad you are overpowered scale back the rocket.

This is not the only reason for flips but it is a good indication.

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I think its all a bit silly. Ive got 1700 hrs into this game, and I cannot get ANYTHING into orbit anymore. I have read forums, watched videos, etc. Nothing works to keep any of my craft from flipping out.

If I were a new user, I would shelve this game in a heartbeat. I am hopefully waiting for some fix to come along, someday. (Besides reverting to an earlier version).

Then you never actually learned flying rockets and you should've if you have 1700 h worth of game.

I'm actually completely baffled by your statement, I can hardly believe you can't establish orbits anymore.

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