Why docking ports and not the Claw?

[Sharpy]

I understand tiny docking ports are tiny and light, and the huge ones have extreme structural strength, but I just don't see a point in using the medium ones if you have the "Advanced Grabbing Unit" available. It's vastly easier to use, you can dock pretty much everywhere and it seems to provide all the advantages of a docking port with none of the shortcomings.

Why should I pick a middle docking port instead of the Claw?

Edited June 4, 2015 by Sharpy

[Lukaszenko]

I do simply for realism. Seems wrong to claw directly into fuel tank in order to transfer some resources.

[Geschosskopf]

Why should I pick a middle docking port instead of the Claw?

Because you can launch pre-docked things but not pre-klawed things.

Because SSTOs need to dock and don't like drag, so there are retractable docking ports for them.

Because an Apollo-style mission would look ridiculous with the Klaw

Because the Klaw was invented by the Kraken to destroy the whole universe.

[n0xiety]

Claw = Kraken bait. Use it long enough and it will emerge to punish who ever defied his will by using the claw Not saying that docking ports are not but atleast they are more forgiving

[A_name]

Basically what the others said. It just seems off to dock with the klaw, and you're invoking the Kraken for sure particularly if you try actually doing something while klawed.

Also...

you can dock pretty much everywhere

Not if you want to go anywhere after docking, since you'll probably end up just spinning in circles.

[Mastikator]

Not if you want to go anywhere after docking, since you'll probably end up just spinning in circles.

To be fair the same limitations apply to regular docking ports, except you have to place them in advance and can't change them whereas with the klaw you can just reattach freely.

[georgTF]

The claw is for collecting junk drifting through space.

And to avoid "surface docking" also know as the pain of a thousand pineapples inserted violently somewhere uncomfortable yet still less frustrating than surface docking.

Using it elsewhere can summon the kraken so it's safer to use docks.

[kStrout]

I don't even know if you can transfer kerbals through a klaw konnection, If not that's another reason to use docking ports

[monophonic]

If you dock by two ports that were placed on a stack node, the docked vessels will be perfectly aligned axially. You will never manage that accuracy with the claw.

[Snark]

And the other reason to use docking port instead of klaw: Because it's harder.

Let's face it, KSP is fun not because it's easy but because it's hard. If we wanted easy, we'd go play something else. Docking is fun because it's a challenge.

Of course, different people find different aspects of the game to be fun. One person's "fun challenge" can be another person's "tedious bore." So what it boils down to is, do you enjoy docking for the challenge and the skill practice, or do you find it an annoying chore that you have to do in order to get on to the other parts of the game that are more interesting/rewarding for you?

So that's really the reason. Oh, and also the kraken thing.

[Sharpy]

If you dock by two ports that were placed on a stack node, the docked vessels will be perfectly aligned axially. You will never manage that accuracy with the claw.

A cookie for this insightful sir. If you're docking for travel and not just for refuelling or exchange of crew, your center of mass must lie on the direction of your vector of thrust and you won't get that perfectly with the Klaw. (unless you use ungodly number of RCS ports to keep up with your misaligned engine.)

[Requia]

I don't even know if you can transfer kerbals through a klaw konnection, If not that's another reason to use docking ports

You can, its how I do all my rescue missions.

[Greenfire32]

because the klaw is REALLY good at causing the universe to implode. No really. All, as in 100%, of my vessels that have had the klaw have either spontaneously exploded, or increased its speed in such a manner that it tore a hole through the sun on its way out of the solar system.

I do not use the klaw. I will not use the klaw.

Not until it's fixed.

[Unfawkable]

There are many things you can do in this game to make it easier. It still is cheating, no matter how you justify it. The Klaw is not a docking port even if it can function like one, and if you use it as one you are using the easy way out. If you are fine with that, go for it.

[moronwrocket]

Klaws are easy? I fought for 30 minutes to get my Fuel Bus to dock with my ISRU station on Minmus because it would not attach to the drills or the landing legs. I had to make it do a wheelie so the Klaw went above the leg and attached to the ore tank behind it.

Also, don't Klaws require higher speed to guarantee connection? Docking ports you can drift in really gentle, limiting the amount of bending in the target vessel.

[Murph]

There are many things you can do in this game to make it easier. It still is cheating, no matter how you justify it. The Klaw is not a docking port even if it can function like one, and if you use it as one you are using the easy way out. If you are fine with that, go for it.

I agree entirely. Just because something is possible does not mean that it isn't cheating. Widespread use of the klaw, in ways that are clearly not intended, is clearly cheating. Cheat if you want to, however, cheating isn't actually wrong in a single player, non-competitive, open ended sandbox game. Denying that it is cheating, on the other hand, that's either/both delusional and wrong. In this type of game, it is not the game's responsibility to prevent you from cheating, or even make it difficult to cheat; it is entirely the player's responsibility to avoid cheating if they want to honestly claim that they achieved something without the use of cheats. The simple test for me, is that if it's completely unrealistic, or using parts in highly unreasonable ways, then it's clearly cheating (and using the klaw for anything other than debris and asteroids is both unrealistic and unreasonable, with very few exceptions, although exceptions to that are possible).

Any attempt by Squad to prevent cheating, other than as an incidental thing that happens as part of fixing real bugs or enhancing intended functionality, would be a very bad thing for the game, as the lack of restrictions are a major positive feature. If you use the klaw because docking ports are "too hard", or you're too lazy to do it right, I'll always view 100% of your progress/achievements/success while using it in that way as fundamentally devalued, or even worthless and invalid.

Incidentally, docking ports really are not that hard at all, even with just stock controls and indicators, as long as you go slow during docking and have RCS available. If you want "hard" docking, try docking a 2.5m lander onto a station with 0 RCS fuel and just the single main Poodle on the back of it.

[Unfawkable]

Incidentally, docking ports really are not that hard at all, even with just stock controls and indicators, as long as you go slow during docking and have RCS available. If you want "hard" docking, try docking a 2.5m lander onto a station with 0 RCS fuel and just the single main Poodle on the back of it.

This also. I've docked with and without RCS of any kind, and it just takes longer and can be annoying if you miss a window because you will have to redo a lot of it, but with RCS, and with the docking precision mod, it's ridiculously easy and fun to dock. I see no reason to simplify it.

[Sharpy]

Eh, just docked a huge craft (four largest Kerbodyne tanks) to a space station, with RCS but without SAS. That was an interesting experience, when every "translation" move would rotate the whole craft.

You may curse the klaw for being unrealistic, however if you want to use the ports on ground vehicles, you're in for a world of pain.

I tend to use both currently; ports for assembling space construction, klaw on ground vehicles and rescue vessels.

[RuBisCO]

I use the Claw often actually.

It is great for attaching rovers to a miner/harvester

It is great on an "Assembler" for assembling modules in orbit.

When landing on low gravity worlds like Minmus, Pol, Gilly, Bop, why not land on top of your mining harvesting station, dock with the claw, instead of having to land afar and have a harvesting truck shuttle the fuel between the to?

I only use docking ports on parts I expect to stay connected or to have thrust going through, or when I need the strength and stability of a large docking port.

[Snark]

There are many things you can do in this game to make it easier. It still is cheating, no matter how you justify it. The Klaw is not a docking port even if it can function like one, and if you use it as one you are using the easy way out. If you are fine with that, go for it.

(and similar sentiments from Murph)

I think it's a case of "to each his own". There's no such thing as cheating here... or rather, each person gets to decide for himself what constitutes cheating for himself, but not for anyone else.

I personally never use the klaw for docking, because I feel exactly as you do about it. Also, for me it breaks that willing suspension of disbelief that makes KSP so magical; suddenly, instead of flying a spaceship, I'm just playing a game. Plus, I enjoy the challenge of docking; I get a little endorphin rush each time the docking field engages.

But I would never dream of looking down on anyone else for using the klaw as a docking substitute. Maybe they just find docking ports to be tedious and want to spend their KSP time doing something else.

If we take judgmental positions about this short of thing, where does it stop? I never fly spaceplanes because I find them unrealistic and OP... but should I look down on the huge part of the KSP community that loves spaceplanes, which Squad saw fit to make a major part of the game? I like to use RemoteTech; should I look down on people who don't? MechJeb and Kerbal Engineer Redux are enormously popular mods; lots of people use them because they see them as supplying missing features that ought to be in the stock game, but I never use them because they're "cheating" to me. But I do use Navball Docking Alignment Indicator. So who should be looking down on whom? I don't use any life support mods; should the people who do use one look down on me?

Ultimately, KSP is about having fun. Different people find different aspects of the game to be fun, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm just glad that Squad chose to put so much effort into making the game moddable, so that so many people can have the KSP experience that works best for them.

[KerikBalm]

#1) We had docking ports long before the claw. Docking ports used to be the only option

#2)

If you dock by two ports that were placed on a stack node, the docked vessels will be perfectly aligned axially. You will never manage that accuracy with the claw.

#3) They look better/more realistic

#4) They are much less likely to result in a ship-destroying bug.

I do use the claws for surface rover "fuel trucks"... because getting two vessels to have perfectly aligned docking ports on uneven terrain, with different sagging from suspension in different gravity, etc, is a real pain...

And we lack the ability to do a lot of adjustment of struts and stuff on the ground, or hook up fuel hoses (I know, mods for that like the robotics and attachment things), which would be realistic. So I just pretent the claw on the front of my fuel truck is really a spool for fuel hoses or whatever....

[Juicy]

I'm still trying to make a Munbase platform system to simply dock vertically. A ramp to get on top of a base with the dockingport on top and another on the bottom of a rover would work too. I just haven't managed to properly launch such a construction (yet).

[Sawyer7as]

Using something built into the game other than the way one perceives it to be used is cheating? Seriously?

Edited June 30, 2015 by Sawyer7as

[Red Iron Crown]

Docking ports forever. I find docking to be one of the most satisfying maneuvers to complete, that moment when the magnets catch and the ships draw together is magic.

[Mikki]

Hi Sharpy

I can use the Klaw without summoning the Kraken... on surface its well for ressource transport, i havent tried yet to press some kerbals through it, hm, going to do this next.

However, the crewtransferoption is a shortcut for convenience, i assume it should work.