[1.12.x] Heat Control - More radiators! (August 22, 2021)

[jackal40]

Or suffer through 1.0.2. I'm trying to persuade Nertea to just recompile the pre-stock-radiator HC for 1.0.4 as a temp fix (just so something exists for people).

This would help those of us on Steam who cannot go back to a previous version. I am one who is having problems with existing ships using HC radiators that aren't behaving properly now.

Edited July 25, 2015 by jackal40

[Jivaii]

This would help those of us on Steam who cannot go back to a previous version. I am one who is having problems with existing ships using HC radiators that aren't behaving properly now.

Can't go back while using steam? I have KSP through Steam, I still have every version going back to 0.20 available to me. You're not doing something right then...

[smjjames]

While I'm able to use the stock ones for now, I miss the variety of radiators from Heat Control.

[Guest]

Can't go back while using steam? I have KSP through Steam, I still have every version going back to 0.20 available to me. You're not doing something right then...

How? You mean, you can somehow tell Steam to install any version of KSP?

I got KSP from Steam when it was early access, but I cannot see any way to tell Steam like: "Install me Linux x64 version of KSP 0.9".

I switched to 1.0.4 just because of I wanted x64 version for Linux, but it was too late for me to get 0.9 x64 for Linux.

[GabrielG.A.B.Fonseca]

I miss these radiators. The stock ones... Are lacking.

[MaverickSawyer]

How? You mean, you can somehow tell Steam to install any version of KSP?

I got KSP from Steam when it was early access, but I cannot see any way to tell Steam like: "Install me Linux x64 version of KSP 0.9".

I switched to 1.0.4 just because of I wanted x64 version for Linux, but it was too late for me to get 0.9 x64 for Linux.

Yes. Right click on KSP in the library, then Properties, Betas, and then Previous Stable Release.

[Streetwind]

Yes. Right click on KSP in the library, then Properties, Betas, and then Previous Stable Release.

Note: this only gives you one previous stable release, namely the one right before the current release. In this case, that's 0.90. Conveniently that's what WildLynx wants, but if you for example want to download 1.0.2, you're out of luck. From the viewpoint of Squad, 1.0.2 ceased existing when 1.0.3 came out, and it is not distributed anymore (not even on request).

[Guest]

Yes. Right click on KSP in the library, then Properties, Betas, and then Previous Stable Release.

Thanks! Never tried to look into Betas sections.

I made full backup of game folder before trying it, and it was useful - Steam just overwritten the game folder. I was hoping it will add another entry into the game library and will install game into new folder. Backups rule Now I have two game versions in separate archives. Everything I wanted.

[egreSS]

Not sure what exactly is broke about this mod in 1.0.4 but the exchanger and heatpipe work fine for me just as they did in the last version. I did have a problem with the radiators blowing up spontaneously but I had that issue in 1.0.2 and they are bunk anyway. I've been attaching heat sinks(Heat Management mod - simple stack node part with no modules but high thermal mass, etc) to reactors or hot engines and Atomic Age's static radiator's (ModuleActiveRadiator and which look awesome, especially when things get toasty). If I need to relocate radiators I'll swap a heat sink for a heat exchanger and run a heat pipe.

Only issues I've ran into were time warping during reactor startup or me not paying attention.

[Nertea]

I'm restarting development of this and am planning two primary branches.

Lightweight: the default installed branch. This focuses singularly on making the radiators play nicely with the 1.04 heat system (uses stock modules, balanced to stock costs) and is relatively trivial to implement. The only "difficult" thing is quantifying a performance metric to allow people to compare between radiators, particularly between stock HRS parts and HC radiators. This is essential to maintaining usefulness with NFE reactors. It's not really difficult, just time consuming.

The ancillary parts such as heat pipes and heat exchangers will still exist here. They function just fine, just aren't super useful.

Heavyweight: not installed by default, but essentially restores 1.02 heat system behaviour. This means that instead of moving HC radiators to stock, this MM plugin will move stock radiators to HC, making changes instead to them.

Balance should work out - because HC radiators can get really hot, moving your save to Light from Heavy will just mean you'll have too many radiators.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Nertea

[Streetwind]

Those are some great news! Are you going to tackle the plugin yourself, or have you perhaps found an ally in your efforts?

[Captain Sierra]

I'm restarting development of this and am planning two primary branches.

Lightweight: the default installed branch. This focuses singularly on making the radiators play nicely with the 1.04 heat system (uses stock modules, balanced to stock costs) and is relatively trivial to implement. The only "difficult" thing is quantifying a performance metric to allow people to compare between radiators, particularly between stock HRS parts and HC radiators. This is essential to maintaining usefulness with NFE reactors. It's not really difficult, just time consuming.

The ancillary parts such as heat pipes and heat exchangers will still exist here. They function just fine, just aren't super useful.

Heavyweight: not installed by default, but essentially restores 1.02 heat system behaviour. This means that instead of moving HC radiators to stock, this MM plugin will move stock radiators to HC, making changes instead to them.

Balance should work out - because HC radiators can get really hot, moving your save to Light from Heavy will just mean you'll have too many radiators.

I assume every single one of your gloriously superior radiator models is coming back in the heavyweight version?

(proceeds to throw a party)

[Nertea]

All models will be in both versions. It's only functionality that will be different.

Plugin work should also be minimal.

I'm considering upscaling all the non-surface radiators to 150% of size to improve radiative areas. Opinions on this? That's about the max the texture resolution will support without changes.

[Captain Sierra]

All models will be in both versions. It's only functionality that will be different.

Plugin work should also be minimal.

I'm considering upscaling all the non-surface radiators to 150% of size to improve radiative areas. Opinions on this? That's about the max the texture resolution will support without changes.

I found their existing size just fine. Maybe the small universals could get upscaled but everything else is solid. (disclaimer: this opinion is based on heat-control experience exclusively, as I avoid stock radiators like the frickin black plague)

What are your thoughts on either a really large static or blanket-esque deployable (for those absurd 12-Colossus tugs) radiator?

With the plugin I presume you're recompiling the existing plugin (or are you rewriting the radiator module to extend the default rather than be a from-scratch module?)

[Streetwind]

Upscaling can easily be tested. Give it a go!

In fact, give us copies of the same parts in different sizes, all the way up to 200%. We'll find out then what looks good and what doesn't, and can decide on the best option.

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

I'm restarting development of this and am planning two primary branches.

Glad to hear it, and I like this plan. What would the heavyweight edition mean in terms of radiator placement? I know in 1.0.2 they had to be attached to the cooled part.

[OldMold]

I'm restarting development of this and am planning two primary branches.

Awesome! Cant wait!

[TicTacToe!]

Great to hear it coming back Nert, and I'm sure I speak for others as well when I say thank you for catering for both philosophies of play, though I myself prefer your old functionality, returning with "Heavyweight".

In all honesty, Heat Control with it's radiators and other parts follows the same way with me as Procedural Fairings. All credit to SQUAD for implementing fairings, but I prefer Proc Fairings' implementation, so I add Proc Fairings and delete SQUAD's fairings and it's exactly the same case with this. Kudos to SQUAD for radiators, but I prefer this mods' implementation of them, so in with Heat Control Heavyweight, out with stock radiators (I prefer Heat Control's models). Just my opinion.

[linuxgurugamer]

Great to hear it coming back Nert, and I'm sure I speak for others as well when I say thank you for catering for both philosophies of play, though I myself prefer your old functionality, returning with "Heavyweight".

In all honesty, Heat Control with it's radiators and other parts follows the same way with me as Procedural Fairings. All credit to SQUAD for implementing fairings, but I prefer Proc Fairings' implementation, so I add Proc Fairings and delete SQUAD's fairings and it's exactly the same case with this. Kudos to SQUAD for radiators, but I prefer this mods' implementation of them, so in with Heat Control Heavyweight, out with stock radiators (I prefer Heat Control's models). Just my opinion.

How do you delete Squad's fairings?

LGG

[TicTacToe!]

How do you delete Squad's fairings?

LGG

Dive into the SQUAD folder in your GameData, then into "Parts", then "Aero", and then finally within that there should be a folder called "fairings". Delete that and you're golden.

[Wolfox]

Dive into the SQUAD folder in your GameData, then into "Parts", then "Aero", and then finally within that there should be a folder called "fairings". Delete that and you're golden.

Its not just about cleaning up editor, but also saving up RAM. I do the same with radiators, if not for models themselves and other heat-conducting parts, the Glow of nertea´s radiators is something I just can not resist

[TicTacToe!]

Its not just about cleaning up editor, but also saving up RAM. I do the same with radiators, if not for models themselves and other heat-conducting parts, the Glow of nertea´s radiators is something I just can not resist

Haha, my thoughts exactly

[Streetwind]

Dive into the SQUAD folder in your GameData, then into "Parts", then "Aero", and then finally within that there should be a folder called "fairings". Delete that and you're golden.

Just a personal recommendation/best practice: never touch the Squad folder. There are plenty of tools available that make it unnecessary, and keep things nice and reversible.

For modifying Squad parts, use ModuleManager; for removing Squad parts from the game, use custom AutoPruner definitions. It looks complicated at first, but that's an illusion - it's literally as simple as making a list of filepaths. Then one single call will unload everything found in those paths, and another single call will restore everything again if you need it. Works for mods too!

[Captain Sierra]

Just a personal recommendation/best practice: never touch the Squad folder. There are plenty of tools available that make it unnecessary, and keep things nice and reversible.

For modifying Squad parts, use ModuleManager; for removing Squad parts from the game, use custom AutoPruner definitions. It looks complicated at first, but that's an illusion - it's literally as simple as making a list of filepaths. Then one single call will unload everything found in those paths, and another single call will restore everything again if you need it. Works for mods too!

I've adopted the practice of no longer deleting my KSP zip (I usually do fresh installs, and have continued to this time around due to broke patcher), so I can always refer to that as a backup for my SQUAD folder. I then proceed to molest the crap out of it. Though in fairness, I've been doing it less because if my improving skills with modulemanager (and editing GameData/Sierra's Stuff/Part Tweaks.cfg is easier than hunting down the configs in the labyrinth of GameData/Squad).

[TicTacToe!]

Just a personal recommendation/best practice: never touch the Squad folder. There are plenty of tools available that make it unnecessary, and keep things nice and reversible.

For modifying Squad parts, use ModuleManager; for removing Squad parts from the game, use custom AutoPruner definitions. It looks complicated at first, but that's an illusion - it's literally as simple as making a list of filepaths. Then one single call will unload everything found in those paths, and another single call will restore everything again if you need it. Works for mods too!

Haha, thanks for reminding me of that possibility actually! I've pretty much been doing it as an "old habits die hard" thing because it's what I've always done, much like Sierra I keep the .zip around, but as you say ModuleManager's probably the best way to be doing it. Cheers for the idea!