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[1.8.1] ETT - Engineering Tech Tree - May 4, 2020


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7 hours ago, Probus said:

That looks really good odya-kun.  I am looking forward to integrating it to see how it fits!  I need to move some ETT nodes around for better base and colonization support.

I found that my patch covers not all parts from UKS. Now I think about a script that will scan all parts and detect ones that are not included in the tree. Do you know any in-game tree editors working with 1.0.5 (like old TreeEdit)? Maybe it will be a better way to write such plugin and edit tree in the game.

Edited by odya-kun
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1 hour ago, odya-kun said:

Do you know any in-game tree editors working with 1.0.5 (like old TreeEdit)? 

Oh gosh no!  I built the original version of this tree using TreeEdit.  That's why it looks a bit... "unaligned". When it quit working I had to do everything by hand.  Really slowed the process down.  If you find a new version of a program like TreeEdit, please let me know.  Right now I would like to put everything into a database and have it generate the tree for me.  But my RegEx-fu skills are not great.  I am waiting till 1.1 before I make such a big change.

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Hey, I just upgraded to the new version via CKAN. Previously, I had problems with the small molten salt reactor - I researched it and paid the cost like all the other parts, but I could never find it in any of the parts tabs (trust me, I looked in all of them multiple times)

But now with the update, that seems to be the case with about four more parts that I previously built craft with. Most of my VAB designs are now saying "part(s) not researched". I loaded up a couple and tried to fly them so I could get a list of the parts it thought I didn't have researched, and looked them up in the science building. I still had the tech researched and the part was paid for, but the game thinks I don't have them researched.

Is there a way I can "reset" these to maybe try and make the game realize that I do have them? I'd really like to not have to start over as I'm just about to send my biggest to-date orbit-built ship to Jool for a bunch of moon fun, buuuut if that's what it takes...

Also, despite the problem this morning, I love the mod. Good design thinking went into the progression, I like how open-ended it is and how it scales well with the amount of science I'm able to collect.

As for other mods, I basically use all the mods that this one recommends via CKAN, plus a few other UI related ones. All the parts mods, though, are the ones recommended.

 

EDIT: Looks like I may have figured out one of the issues. One of the problem parts was the M700 Survey Scanner, which looks like it was moved from the science limb to the transmitter limb.

Still can't figure out the "small reaction wheel", however. The .cfg file looks like it's still researched within the Advanced Control node, which I still have researched and still see the part in. But I'm still unable to find it or use any craft I previously created with it

Edited by vinadir
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1 hour ago, vinadir said:

Hey, I just upgraded to the new version via CKAN. Previously, I had problems with the small molten salt reactor - I researched it and paid the cost like all the other parts, but I could never find it in any of the parts tabs (trust me, I looked in all of them multiple times)

But now with the update, that seems to be the case with about four more parts that I previously built craft with. Most of my VAB designs are now saying "part(s) not researched". I loaded up a couple and tried to fly them so I could get a list of the parts it thought I didn't have researched, and looked them up in the science building. I still had the tech researched and the part was paid for, but the game thinks I don't have them researched.

Is there a way I can "reset" these to maybe try and make the game realize that I do have them? I'd really like to not have to start over as I'm just about to send my biggest to-date orbit-built ship to Jool for a bunch of moon fun, buuuut if that's what it takes...

Also, despite the problem this morning, I love the mod. Good design thinking went into the progression, I like how open-ended it is and how it scales well with the amount of science I'm able to collect.

As for other mods, I basically use all the mods that this one recommends via CKAN, plus a few other UI related ones. All the parts mods, though, are the ones recommended.

 

EDIT: Looks like I may have figured out one of the issues. One of the problem parts was the M700 Survey Scanner, which looks like it was moved from the science limb to the transmitter limb.

Still can't figure out the "small reaction wheel", however. The .cfg file looks like it's still researched within the Advanced Control node, which I still have researched and still see the part in. But I'm still unable to find it or use any craft I previously created with it

I'm sorry @vinadir .  I try to make it as friendly to save games as possible.  This last release had a lot of balancing integrated into it.  Hard on saves, I know.  I would recommend one of two things:

1) Go back to the previous revision.

2) If you have the time, message me with more information and I will help you debug it and put out a patch (either for you or for everyone depending on what we find).

Also, as far as the small reaction wheel goes.  I don't know what is up with that either.  I'm guessing it's part name is used twice or something.

Thanks!

Edited by Probus
small reaction wheel.
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On 05/01/2016 at 7:24 AM, Probus said:

lordcirth,

  I would love to hear some suggestions on how to start the tree with a better experiment ramp-up.  What are ya thinking of?

 

Well, it's a good thing I created a fresh save with 1.0.5, ETT, and Dmagic, Normal difficulty, in order to test ETT again before typing a page or two!  I see that you have made a few changes since I tried it.  Moving the 2HOT into Basic Science makes sense.  You haven't tweaked any of the experiment values, right?  So the wiki is accurate for those?

Putting a barometer on the pad and recovering it gets 3.6, +1 for Science contract.  This allows 2 nodes: Basic Science, or Propulsion Systems.  In fact you can choose both.  Getting Basic Science seemed like the right thing to do.  2.4 Science from the pad, almost paying for itself.  It's interesting to note that although we start with a C-16 antenna, it costs 12 EC per packet and the only power we have is the Stayputnik with 10 EC, so we can't actually use the antenna with those 2 nodes alone.  However, while not obvious, unlocking Propulsion Systems gives a 7.0 EC/sec alternator.  Choosing Science over better engines doesn't get you stuck, however, so this is fine.

By the way, could you hide the Universal Storage parts if the user doesn't have it installed?  It would clean things up a lot.

EDIT:  Continuing my career, the antenna aborts transmission and returns the data when the probe core runs out of battery.  Right-clicking on it lets you toggle this, but it gets very slow to transmit results piece by piece.  I think it's best to just launch a sounding rocket to 70km using the LV-30 and not waste money on science equipment.  This gets you about 25 Science from various contracts and achievements, so now you can get batteries and do a proper science rocket.  Is this the intended strategy?

EDIT2: I'm an idiot.  I forgot that ETT gives you the radial parachute to start with.  That makes things much easier XD.  With that in mind, perhaps the C-16 antenna should be moved to Basic Science?  You can't really use it well at the start anyway.

Edited by lordcirth
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@lordcirth Yeah, I don't tweak the values of anything other than where they appear in the tech tree.  I'm glad you like the 2HOT move.

I am lousy at control so the Stayputnik is a giant pain for me.  I usually follow 1.25 rocketry straight to better probes (grabbing a science node also).  After that, whatever I'm in the mood for.

I've tried playing this with Real Solar System (RSS), too.  It works just fine, but is a little grindy at the start. You can't get science from the ground in RSS and that makes things hard.

I will try hiding the Universal Storage items next release (if I can find them all).

Thanks for the feedback!

Edited by Probus
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14 minutes ago, Probus said:

I am lousy at control so the Stayputnik is a giant pain for me.  I usually follow 1.25 rocketry straight to better probes (grabbing a science node also).  After that, whatever I'm in the mood for.

Try installing Science Alert (Menu Stabilizer is good too) then spin-stabilize your rockets.  It works pretty well!

18 minutes ago, Probus said:

I've tried playing this with Real Solar System (RSS), too.  It works just fine, but is a little grindy at the start. You can't get science from the ground in RSS and that makes things hard.

Stock parts in RSS?  That sounds really hard.  I've only ever played RSS with RO, which is also hard, but differently so :P  Hardest I've ever played with stock parts was KScale2, which was a manageable difficulty bump.

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@Probus I think there may be a bug.  My fresh install has a blank Solid Rockets node, and the Hammer is under Advanced SRB with the BACC.  This is the latest version, 20160112.  EDIT:  Also Ullage Motors is empty, it had the Sepratron in my 1.0.4 install.  Did these get renamed in 1.0.5 maybe?

Edited by lordcirth
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10 hours ago, Probus said:

I'm sorry @vinadir .  I try to make it as friendly to save games as possible.  This last release had a lot of balancing integrated into it.  Hard on saves, I know.  I would recommend one of two things:

1) Go back to the previous revision.

2) If you have the time, message me with more information and I will help you debug it and put out a patch (either for you or for everyone depending on what we find).

Also, as far as the small reaction wheel goes.  I don't know what is up with that either.  I'm guessing it's part name is used twice or something.

Thanks!

Thanks for the offer on #2, but today at work I kinda realized how silly it was trying to upgrade something as core as my research progression tree and also maintain my current save. Thankfully, CKAN kept a zip of the last version, and so just after overwriting that and reloading, everything is good again.

However, there's still the weird issue of not being able to create a small molten salt reactor. That has been a thing since I researched it, and before I did anything stupid like update any addons. Not saying it's super pressing as my uses for it right now are limited, and I'm hoping the other Interstellar reactors will work fine if I can't figure this one out.

I've even gone as far as verifying that my save lists the part under a tech that is state=Available, that your .cfg matches up just fine with what my save file sees, and that the same name is used in the WarpPlugin\Parts\Electrical\NuclearReactor3Spheres\SmallSaltReactor.cfg, blah blah blah. It's weird and bugging me that I can't fix it, but otherwise I'll live, just mainly am seeing if this is a common thing which I've been guessing that it's not.

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22 hours ago, lordcirth said:

@Probus I think there may be a bug.  My fresh install has a blank Solid Rockets node, and the Hammer is under Advanced SRB with the BACC.  This is the latest version, 20160112.  EDIT:  Also Ullage Motors is empty, it had the Sepratron in my 1.0.4 install.  Did these get renamed in 1.0.5 maybe?

Nope, not a bug. I moved the Hammer down one because there were so many packs that were giving us intermediate SRBs.  The Hammer was just to powerful for that node.

SepMotor1 moved out of Ullage for some reason. I will fix it.

You should get the small molten salt reactor in the first atomic branch node, and it should upgrade with the next node.  Maybe the name changed in interstellar?  I can't check that right now, but I will investigate.

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Hello,

So yes I understand the premise of the tree of to allow more freedom; I get that.

I guess my question would be if this tree has all of the Stock Tech Tree nodes 'included' in it ? In this way patches can be overridden as in deleted then added or modified to certain trees.

I am not a modder per se but I am just trying to understand the new patching system of adding parts to nodes.

Where I manually go to 'EACH' MOD and change the tech tree postion of the parts (even Stock !) is time consuming, it is the only way I understand how to do it.

Using the patch method (and an old tree) one should be able to write a program to port the data over; I dont know what regex is.

As a player there will always be different trees, different ways to play Career mode it seems, with no good way since .90 to move parts around.

The tech tree might as well be non linear if there is to be total freedom.

I personally build off the stock tree because it is the original idea of the game, and is how most people would learn career mode not using mods; at first.

I also am not seeing a large consensus of people in this project; I need to check the community resource project people maybe they have ideas for career trees.

I as a career mode player am looking for a standard in career mode progression based off of and inclusive of the Stock Tech Tree.

Commander Zeta

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Release 20160115: 

Added Kerbal Planetary Base Systems

Overhauled SpaceStations --> Colonization tree structure

Fixed progression issues with TantaresLV

@odya-kun started OKS/MKS

The last two releases in the past 3 days have re-arranged and/or added 11 nodes withing the following branches:

SpaceStations --> Colonization

Exotic Propulsion - Ion, Hall, Magnetoplasmadynamic, Pulsed Inductive, VASMIR

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On January 13, 2016 at 3:58 AM, Probus said:

Oh gosh no!  I built the original version of this tree using TreeEdit.  That's why it looks a bit... "unaligned". When it quit working I had to do everything by hand.  Really slowed the process down.  If you find a new version of a program like TreeEdit, please let me know.  Right now I would like to put everything into a database and have it generate the tree for me.  But my RegEx-fu skills are not great.  I am waiting till 1.1 before I make such a big change.

I have a tree editor, I will link the thread when I find it for you.

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14 hours ago, odya-kun said:

Is USI Survivability Pack really supported? I propose to create node between "survivability" and "Advanced Parachutes". 40 points.
Also, @Probus, why are you not using GitHub repo?

 

You're right odya-kun.  I didn't think anyone was going to use that.  I will upload the changes to GitHub for you.  Thanks for reminding me.

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finally getting around to beta testing GAP 1.1. once I release it, i intend to slow down and play a proto career with ETT and GAP and from there I'll be able to submit recommendations for aircraft part placements.

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@odya-kun & @inigma, I am having trouble with Ubuntu and Git-Hub getting along.  I need a good git-hub manager for linux.  For now just PM me any changes you have made to the tree (not the tree itself) and I will integrate them for you.  I am really looking for some good input from you @inigma for the aircraft portion of the tree (including node changes/rearrangements).  I know that will be hard to do without getting my github working properly.

If anyone happens to know of a good Ubuntu/GitHub program, please drop me a link.  Thanks!

Also, what does everybody think of the changes I made to the exotic engines and planetary base branches?

Edited by Probus
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That's a very nice mod you got there!

However, I would like to play it Stock + KIS + KAS + USI-LS. The problem is with this mod configuration there are many tree nodes that are empty, but still cost science points. Is there any way to remove or skip them without cheating the extra science in? Or maybe there's some other tech tree modyfing mod that I could use?

Edited by Veeltch
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On January 21, 2016 at 6:47 AM, Probus said:

@odya-kun & @inigma, I am having trouble with Ubuntu and Git-Hub getting along.  I need a good git-hub manager for linux.  For now just PM me any changes you have made to the tree (not the tree itself) and I will integrate them for you.  I am really looking for some good input from you @inigma for the aircraft portion of the tree (including node changes/rearrangements).  I know that will be hard to do without getting my github working properly.

If anyone happens to know of a good Ubuntu/GitHub program, please drop me a link.  Thanks!

What kind of getting along problems are you having? I rely on Github and Ubuntu for work, but I haven't had any trouble shunting code back and forth between them (I use git directly).

I happen to like building airplanes and like the idea of this pack, but had some frustrations the last time I used it. From what I recall, there's really a very large jump in science points between the first node with practically any airplane parts and the next node, which includes a number of parts that I liked and/or used in early-tech designs in the stock game. It might be worth looking at that some, particularly for people without Firespitter, KAX, etc.

Edited by Workable Goblin
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@Probus

Hi,

i was really excited about your mod, because vanilla tech tree has no sense, making it boring and annoying.

I installed ETT, but with only vanilla parts feels so empty, so i added SXT and NearFuture for parts and Dmagic for Science to already installed MJ and RemoteTech.

Intially was really fun, thanks to the combination of the freedom to decide what is a priority for you (like unmanned first, wheels and stairs before atomic power -_-) with a progression well balanced that challenge you without frustration (or grinding).

The big "but" is that just after the first part of the tree, the parts are placed in nodes without following a logic in term of progression or cost, like having the vanilla tree with also some "bugged" placing.

The problem is that this mod tries to support all the mod, delegating too much to the modders. That doesn't work. Really, it's not the right path to follow. There is not an official and reliable "stardard" to follow. And this mod needs someone that has "the big picture" in his mind, assuring it is respected. And it can only be you.

I think you should use your experience to decide how the game should be (in terms of tech tree) and, based on that, pick few mods u consider should be in the game (or just a partial of the mod) e stick with just those. No less, no more. Your work will be a lot less (especially the maintenance) and the result a lot better. U can also tweak and Whitelisting parts beacause their number (now limited) now permits this. And u can now really work on balancing and progression (one time job).

As modder u should know u can't make everyone happy and if u try so, u end to make everyone unhappy ;) (u included)

 

Luca

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