Fengist

[1.0.4] Maritime Pack - 0.1.4

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Speaking of RoRo parts this is what I accomplished in about 20 minutes of building and assembling.

The M1A1 tips the scales at over 10 tonnes

Unfortunately I can't seem to think of any better way to reverse the ship when it lands, so I just decided to repeatedly ram the ship with my HAWK missile carrier until it un-grounds itself. Also the ship has no way to slow down so I just slapped on some regular ol' airbrakes.

And once on-board the cargo remained quite stable, but there was a slight problem, with...err, acceleration.

I figured sooner or later someone would realize it was more of an LST than a RoRo. But now I'm confused. Did you delete the Firespitter.dll? You should have been able to right click on the stern and set reverse thrust and backed away from the beach. As for the speed issue, you were sitting pretty low in the water but it should have done a LOT better than that. Are you using any mods like Better Buoyancy or did you have anything mounted under the hull (other than the rudder)? Also, once we get the reverse thrust figured out, you can use it for brakes.

rororeverse.jpg

Edited by Fengist

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Now that you mention it, yeah it actually does resemble those landing ships from WWII.

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Awesome !

Kinda hard to land a plane on a Carrier, the runway isn't very... large.

But I think this mod needs something else...

This:

SpaceX_ASDS_in_position_prior_to_Falcon_9_Flight_17_carrying_CRS-6_(17127808431).jpg

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Landing on a carrier in RL isn't a piece of cake either.

And this gives you an idea of what it's like from the cockpit of an S3-Viking. Trust me, landing on the CVE is just as terrifying.

And if you're looking to experience the left side of that video...

CVELights.jpg

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Landing on a carrier in RL isn't a piece of cake either.

Yeah but when the carrier is as wide as your airplane it's kind of impossible.

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Awesome !

Kinda hard to land a plane on a Carrier, the runway isn't very... large.

But I think this mod needs something else...

Yep, in the OP that's on the to-do list. But, I'm going to wait a bit. Once I get this clipper pack more solidified, I'll move on to a wider hull design which will make that barge a bit easier to land a rocket on. Though if you're following SpaceX, it seems they now don't have to worry as much about landing since they have issues launching.

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Yeah but when the carrier is as wide as your airplane it's kind of impossible.

Not impossible, just damned challenging. Look back in this post and you'll see I landed an aircraft on the CVE 3 times with a fixed wing... once without crashing. You may have to rethink your aircraft design and, like the navies of the world, realize you're not going to land on a carrier at mach 2. Low speed flight will be a necessity.

And bear with me on this. This is still a very, very beta pack. Once I get to going on larger hulls, there will be a CVL. A CVA might be outta reach as the SPH hangar isn't nearly big enough for one. Dice made one for his boat parts but it consumed the entire SPH... and then some.

Edited by Fengist

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And bear with me on this. This is still a very, very beta pack. Once I get to going on larger hulls, there will be a CVL. A CVA might be outta reach as the SPH hangar isn't nearly big enough for one. Dice made one for his boat parts but it consumed the entire SPH... and then some.

One could always use Hangar Extender, but not everybody uses that.

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I figured sooner or later someone would realize it was more of an LST than a RoRo. But now I'm confused. Did you delete the Firespitter.dll? You should have been able to right click on the stern and set reverse thrust and backed away from the beach. As for the speed issue, you were sitting pretty low in the water but it should have done a LOT better than that. Are you using any mods like Better Buoyancy or did you have anything mounted under the hull (other than the rudder)? Also, once we get the reverse thrust figured out, you can use it for brakes.

There is nothing under the ship but the rudder and the buoyancy blisters.

If it helps any the ship alone masses 18.5 tonnes and the M1A1 is exactly 11 tonnes. So 29.5 tonnes. I do not have better buoyancy installed, but I have fixed my thrust reversal problems. Also the M1A1 relies on Kerbal Foundries for its tracks, if that may be the cause of any problems.

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There is nothing under the ship but the rudder and the buoyancy blisters.

If it helps any the ship alone masses 18.5 tonnes and the M1A1 is exactly 11 tonnes. So 29.5 tonnes. I do not have better buoyancy installed, but I have fixed my thrust reversal problems. Also the M1A1 relies on Kerbal Foundries for its tracks, if that may be the cause of any problems.

I'm going to guess, since you didn't show your resources, that you filled the 2 bits with compressed water. To load the ship, that's fine. Once you're loaded, turn on the decompressor and get rid of some. Take care how much you bleed off though. If you sit too high in the water with 10 tons of cargo, your mass will be high enough to flip your ship over. Another thing to look at is how many of the bitts you have. I only saw 2. What I tend to do is ring the deck with them. A minimum of 6. 2 up front, 2 in the middle and 2 rear. That way, if you're bow is too low because of all the weight of the tank, you can move compressed water from the front 2 to the rear 2.

There's a spoiler in the OP with some 3D renderings of my sample ships. Take a look at them, in particular where I place the bitts.

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One could always use Hangar Extender, but not everybody uses that.

Yep, but again another dependency. Even Firespitter isn't up to 1.0.4 yet. I don't want the ability for my mod to work to be based on when another modder gets around to fixing their mod. Like B9. It's still in .90.

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You can make a wide carrier.

That's the tentative plan.

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My twin hulled carrier with vtol on deckU4yJsGE.jpg

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better pic

ooo14Nd.jpgThis did get blown up not long after this shot was taken by a pack of harpoons! The point defence got 3 then over heated and let in 2.

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My twin hulled carrier with vtol on deckhttp://i.imgur.com/U4yJsGE.jpg

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better pic

http://i.imgur.com/ooo14Nd.jpgThis did get blown up not long after this shot was taken by a pack of harpoons! The point defence got 3 then over heated and let in 2.

Well, that tells me one thing. Even if the wide hulls I plan on making are twice as wide as the Clipper... it won't be quite enough.

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I'm going to guess, since you didn't show your resources, that you filled the 2 bits with compressed water. To load the ship, that's fine. Once you're loaded, turn on the decompressor and get rid of some. Take care how much you bleed off though. If you sit too high in the water with 10 tons of cargo, your mass will be high enough to flip your ship over. Another thing to look at is how many of the bitts you have. I only saw 2. What I tend to do is ring the deck with them. A minimum of 6. 2 up front, 2 in the middle and 2 rear. That way, if you're bow is too low because of all the weight of the tank, you can move compressed water from the front 2 to the rear 2.

There's a spoiler in the OP with some 3D renderings of my sample ships. Take a look at them, in particular where I place the bitts.

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Yep, but again another dependency. Even Firespitter isn't up to 1.0.4 yet. I don't want the ability for my mod to work to be based on when another modder gets around to fixing their mod. Like B9. It's still in .90.

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That's the tentative plan.

Have you even tried to use Hangar Extender? It works just fine in 1.0.4 for me. Theres been some people who say that it doesn't work for them, but theres few details on the why.

Also, Firespitter IS up to 1.0.4 http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24551-Firespitter-propeller-plane-and-helicopter-parts-v7-1-%28May-5th%29-for-KSP-1-0?p=2039934&viewfull=1#post2039934 :P

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Well, that tells me one thing. Even if the wide hulls I plan on making are twice as wide as the Clipper... it won't be quite enough.

For a small Mk2 plane like that one it was wide enough to land on, and I bounced across the deck hence the angle.

That is 2 wide and 7 long and I could get 3 of those planes on it. same with the heli that ive done. the hardest part is station keeping, hit the deck an the ship starts to drift off.

Hope some of this helps.

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Say hello to the KSP Pocket Shield ship or Kerbal version of Aegis.

0yeYyX7.jpg

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From the R&D Department.

Well, it's not much but...

Please keep in mind, this is my first IVA and unlike an aircraft cockpit, a ship's bridge is a victorian mansion in comparison. Lots of space and not a lot of choices on props to add. But, there you have it. A bridge IVA.

IVA6.jpg

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Have you even tried to use Hangar Extender? It works just fine in 1.0.4 for me. Theres been some people who say that it doesn't work for them, but theres few details on the why.

Also, Firespitter IS up to 1.0.4 http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24551-Firespitter-propeller-plane-and-helicopter-parts-v7-1-%28May-5th%29-for-KSP-1-0?p=2039934&viewfull=1#post2039934 :P

I have heard of it and know roughly what it does but again, trying not to rely on other mods for much of anything.

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For a small Mk2 plane like that one it was wide enough to land on, and I bounced across the deck hence the angle.

That is 2 wide and 7 long and I could get 3 of those planes on it. same with the heli that ive done. the hardest part is station keeping, hit the deck an the ship starts to drift off.

Hope some of this helps.

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Say hello to the KSP Pocket Shield ship or Kerbal version of Aegis.

http://i.imgur.com/0yeYyX7.jpg

ANY input I get helps, thanks. I'm seeing almost 2,000 downloads for a beta mod and a not a lot of feedback. That means one of two things. Either is so horrid it gets deleted quickly or it's so perfect it doesn't warrant anyone creating a post. I have a hard time believing the latter.

Station keeping, I fear, will always be an issue. One thing I'm testing that may help is a proper ballasted keel. Something to try is to take a few bitts, mount them on the centerline of the ship and under the water. Keep them empty till you're ready to land then load them up. Underwater mass has a habit of bringing things to a screeching halt. You may need a mod like Kerbal Cam to see under the boat though.

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Hey, you're featured on Kerbal stuff!

Yes, I noticed that this morning. And the huge number of downloads to boot. If SirCmpwn happens to stop in, my thanks.

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Something that would be very useful would be tweakscale compatibility. Want me to take a crack at it?

Also, I'm thinking.....possibly make some KAS/KIS parts that have grapple hook/anchor attached? Like, a bow with an anchor (for obvious reasons) and a grapple hook for arresting gear? or something that acts as arresting gear?

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From the R&D Department.

Well, it's not much but...

Please keep in mind, this is my first IVA and unlike an aircraft cockpit, a ship's bridge is a victorian mansion in comparison. Lots of space and not a lot of choices on props to add. But, there you have it. A bridge IVA.

Hehe just for lulz and comparisons, this is how a 'hand assembled' bridge looks like on a famous battleship I tried to make in 1.0.2. I animated the steering wheel (or whatever a nautical steering wheel is called) using Infernal Robotics.

Xkcn5uv.png

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Finally the video is up. Sorry it took so long, the 1.0.4 update messed with my saves and some mods so I had to do it all over again. I made this video for you so use it as you please, just give me credit if you do and let me know what you think.

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I found a small problem with the CVE Bridge. The impact tolerance is a little low(lower than the deck plates) and if you land on it too hard it poofs. That is why in the video I didn't use it. Instead I buried a mk2 pod in the bow. You may want to raise that up to the same level as the deck plates.

Edited by greydragon70

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Yep, you were in the ballpark. Essentially, the rudder will be a canard on steroids. You theoretically could mount it on an aircraft but one touch of the controls would probably send you flipping.

The best way I found to steer my ships is two small control surfaces on the stern above the propeller and waterline. For heavier/bigger ships I put the control surfaces front and rear. I also add RCS ports and tanks or Vernier Engines with fuel/oxy tanks hidden somewhere. You'll see it in my video.

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Something that would be very useful would be tweakscale compatibility. Want me to take a crack at it?

Also, I'm thinking.....possibly make some KAS/KIS parts that have grapple hook/anchor attached? Like, a bow with an anchor (for obvious reasons) and a grapple hook for arresting gear? or something that acts as arresting gear?

Tweakscale was something I've considered a lot. I'm not sure how well these parts will scale. If you'd like to start tinkering with that, by all means, do so. Keep me updated. As for KAS, if you look back at my first RoRo pics, I had harpoons and an anchor on the Davit. What I discovered is, the anchors don't really hold it that well when they're on the bottom of the ocean. The other problem was, you get more than maybe 100m off the beach and you've got 700m of water under you. You have to be pretty close to shore to anchor.

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Hehe just for lulz and comparisons, this is how a 'hand assembled' bridge looks like on a famous battleship I tried to make in 1.0.2. I animated the steering wheel (or whatever a nautical steering wheel is called) using Infernal Robotics.

http://i.imgur.com/Xkcn5uv.png

Thank you. I feel much better now.

- - - Updated - - -

Finally the video is up. Sorry it took so long, the 1.0.4 update messed with my saves and some mods so I had to do it all over again. I made this video for you so use it as you please, just give me credit if you do and let me know what you think.

http://youtu.be/ypBYcMoNho4

- - - Updated - - -

I found a small problem with the CVE Bridge. The impact tolerance is a little low(lower than the deck plates) and if you land on it too hard it poofs. That is why in the video I didn't use it. Instead I buried a mk2 pod in the bow. You may want to raise that up to the same level as the deck plates.

I think, you have found the ultimate use for a torodial fuel tank... a life preserver. And I had to laugh, a 3 wide carrier. You guys are putting these parts to the test. I never would have come up with some of these designs. Nice video. I just added a new spoiler to the OP with links to videos.

As for the CVE bridge... fixed in the next release. You were very correct, I had it's crash tolerance set to what a command pod should be, not a flight deck. When you said that I realized that that part is probably the only command pod in KSP that has aircraft landing on it's roof.

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Yep, you were in the ballpark. Essentially, the rudder will be a canard on steroids. You theoretically could mount it on an aircraft but one touch of the controls would probably send you flipping.

The best way I found to steer my ships is two small control surfaces on the stern above the propeller and waterline. For heavier/bigger ships I put the control surfaces front and rear. I also add RCS ports and tanks or Vernier Engines with fuel/oxy tanks hidden somewhere. You'll see it in my video.

Boy, I'm still debating the whole bow thruster thing and a good way to implement it. Many 'real' ones are built into the bow. Some are bolt on an some are mechanically recessed and only extend when needed. It seems for now you guys have turning worked out with RCS but I'd like to come up with a good nautical alternative. I'll keep thinking. One thing I need to do is reduce the electrical charge the cargo bridge uses for the reaction wheels. Even with solar panels on the roof, it eats batteries like a flashlight.

And thanks for the feedback guys. Since most of my time now is spent making and testing parts, I'm not getting a lot of time to abuse them before I'm off to the next project.

Edited by Fengist

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"I think, you have found the ultimate use for a torodial fuel tank... a life preserver. And I had to laugh, a 3 wide carrier. You guys are putting these parts to the test. I never would have come up with some of these designs. Nice video.

As for the CVE bridge... fixed in the next release. You were very correct, I had it's crash tolerance set to what a command pod should be, not a flight deck. When you said that I realized that that part is probably the only command pod in KSP that has aircraft landing on it's roof."

Sadly the toroidal tanks won't stick to the side so they are mounted on oscar-b tanks. That was actually the first time I've used toroidal tanks effectively.

As far as the 3 wide hull, I needed more room so I added two hulls catamaran style with octagonal struts then slid them towards the center to get the flat top look. I used a fair amount of struts in discrete places and it was still kinda wobbly in the water.

Also when using a double or triple hull I can set the thrusters on action groups to steer like many ships do. One side forward the other side reverse. But the small control surfaces work very well.

Thanks, that video was done 3 times before it was finished. I just wish I had known you updated with the ro-ro and rudder.

Edited by greydragon70

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