Fengist

[1.0.4] Maritime Pack - 0.1.4

Recommended Posts

Personally, because of the drag issues with stock water, I think this mod should have as a requirement, BetterBuoyancy. Unfortunately, I tried using a ship with it, and it was stuck below the surface, and also, when going fast enough, generated some bizarre lift and took off like an uncontrollable rocket/jet thing.

Regarding underwater aesthetics and water launches, the plugin from InfititeDice's boats mod does add underwater graphical updates.

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/89835a_39ebcf93d9b2422eb298473a4a8a6418.png_srb_p_1484_835_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_png_srb

Perhaps you could ask permission to use his plugin, and re-distribute it in your mod, or make it an optional requirement. (Once his mod updates!)

Are you using the latest Better Buoyancy?

Personally though, I use BB because I find the stock water to be too bouncy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They do not consider underwater to be a place where you should go. This is a game about rockets and aviation. Not about aquatics and maritime activities. Oceans are merely a consequence of making realistic planets. They're not a place for exploration. Therefore [...] I won't keep spoiling this [...]

Thus far, Squad had shown no real desire to change the seascape. Now that being said... if I DO make submarines work then perhaps Squad would have a reason to fix these issues. I'm afraid it would take a lot of opinions to change that and I don't think there are enough submariners in the game for them to really care.

I included the bathysphere knowing these things in hope that people like you would want to use it, see these problems, and start making some noise about getting them fixed. And I'm planning the IVA for the bathysphere in the hopes this happens. I'd love to see subs. But Squad would need to make the oceans friendly before they become visually appealing.

In some ways, making mods sucks. You end up learning all the dirty little secrets.

If you reply to this post, please use spoilers if discussing the above.

I mostly share your assessment of Squad's position. I reckon though if economic considerations were no issue, Harv would be more than willing to include submarine gameplay.

I'd so love to see that happen. It could provide an early proving ground for EVAs and docking, without the risk of losing crew to the infinite void. It could provide educational tools about our planet, just as much as the spaceflight portion does - with the possible difference that we humans probably know more about the outer solar system than we do about what's below the surface of the pool ;)

Spaceflight on Earth is tightly linked to the underwater environment - there's the NBL (no, none of several basketball leagues named National Basketball League...), most prominently, but also NEEMO with the Aquarius underwater habitat that was originally an asset of NOAA - which again underlines how close the ties are between Ocean and Space.

And that's only pandering to the "NationalTM" folks - Russia, Europe, and China all have their space-related underwater facilities and research programmes, and I suppose India's, Brazil's, and any other space programme do, too.

Count me in as a submariner, Squad.

I want to take mud samples from the floor of Laythe's deep sea trenches, and watch Eve's purple ocean waves breaking above my submarine!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, I think it would be sweet if you could release some parts that were bigger and kind of US Navy grey, styled after US destroyers of cruisers. Something big enough to fit the naval guns from this mod http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118824-WIP-Never-Enuff-Dakka-A-BDArmoury-expansion?p=1896201#post1896201. Anyhoe, thats just me being a kerbal war monger. Do as you please and have a wonderful day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Personally, because of the drag issues with stock water, I think this mod should have as a requirement, BetterBuoyancy. Unfortunately, I tried using a ship with it, and it was stuck below the surface, and also, when going fast enough, generated some bizarre lift and took off like an uncontrollable rocket/jet thing.

Regarding underwater aesthetics and water launches, the plugin from InfititeDice's boats mod does add underwater graphical updates.

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/89835a_39ebcf93d9b2422eb298473a4a8a6418.png_srb_p_1484_835_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_png_srb

Perhaps you could ask permission to use his plugin, and re-distribute it in your mod, or make it an optional requirement. (Once his mod updates!)

And I just looked, my dev install of KSP has BB running so, it's something else causing your sinkage.

And wow, Dice fixed it. I haven't taken a look at his mod in months so that's nice. I'll have to talk to him. He actually stopped in several pages back and said if there was anything I needed....

- - - Updated - - -

Count me in as a submariner, Squad.

I want to take mud samples from the floor of Laythe's deep sea trenches, and watch Eve's purple ocean waves breaking above my submarine!

Bubbleheads unite!

- - - Updated - - -

Hey, I think it would be sweet if you could release some parts that were bigger and kind of US Navy grey, styled after US destroyers of cruisers. Something big enough to fit the naval guns from this mod http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118824-WIP-Never-Enuff-Dakka-A-BDArmoury-expansion?p=1896201#post1896201. Anyhoe, thats just me being a kerbal war monger. Do as you please and have a wonderful day.

Since Maritime is lightly tied to Firespitter, this is entirely possible. One of the things Firespitter allows is multiple textures for the same part and it's easy enough to code. The problem is... time. I just updated the OP to include some donation buttons. There's also a spoiler that explains the difficulty I'm having with textures and the time it's taking (and a sample of things to come). No offense, but if I'm going to retexture the entire pack, first priority will be 'civilian' usage.

Edited by Fengist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some very lovely command pods with quite excellent IVA's popped up on CKAN this morning (But have existed for awhile, I guess), so at the very least there are SOME people out there doing it.

> http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/125114-1-0-2-Super-100-Shooting-Star-Super-67-Little-Star-Command-Pods

There are some out there, without a doubt. Most though seem to be making them for their own mods. Eventually, I'll get the hang of it and get them online.

I haven't used this mod and I'm not sure if I will but it all looks very nice.

I also enjoyed your circumnavigation stories, they were quite good.

Well, I wish they had both turned out different. TBH, wanting to actually do a SAIL circumnavigation around Kerbin was one of the reasons I started this whole modding business.

- - - Updated - - -

I think at this time bigger boats would be an easier option, as iva's are, in the grand scheme of things not the endgame of everything and placeholder/stock i think would be finne.

I wouldn't have guessed it but looking at the initial poll results would confirm that most people think like you.

FYI, i prefer your models/textures over InfiniteDice's. Yours seem to fit with the game better.

P.S maybe make the yacht towers lights texture look more yellow for when turned on, it becomes hard to see the windows.

Dice admits he's not a texture guy nor is he an IVA guy. He seems to be pretty good at code. And that's the problem with modding. In order to create a great mod, you have to be both right and left brained. You have to be someone who can imagine a concept for a part, design that part with great 3d models, create a logical, working UV layout, paint that layout to artistically acceptable standards, animate parts in both Unity and outside 3D animation programs when Unity isn't enough, guess at half of what the key/value pairs are in the .cfg files because Squad doesn't document things for modders AND... comprehend the KSP API and write code in C#.

Dunno if you've looked closely at nerds, but they paint with crayons. They program well, paint with crayons. And artists, well, we all know they use Apple products to insulate them from nerdy Linux commands. Those lines rarely blur. But to mod? It takes someone really screwed up in the head to be able to do everything a modder needs to do. (I'm lacking the C# only because I chose to program in Pascal and PHP).

So, to refer back to Dice, his textures may not 'fit the game' but that's only because he's... normal.

I'll have a look at the lights ;)

Edited by Fengist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...It takes someone really screwed up in the head to be able to do everything a modder needs to do...

YAY!I have a chance to be a good modder some day!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a look at doing some modding, and sorta pushed the big red shiny NOPE! button instead.

- - - Updated - - -

Another thing, up the heat tolerance a bit on the cargo ship bridge. I use BD Armory, and have a modded gun that fires .303 calibre rounds. Said gun takes out the bridge in a few shots.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the thing that put me off InfiniteDice's parts is that a lot of them are very dark, where as the games parts are quite stock light. I appreciate that he may not be a top modder in terms of textures, but i am not putting him down just voicing my opinion because he has done some amazing work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a suggestion, and In keeping with your thoughts on more modular, less needing instruction manuals (Pfft) in ksp boat parts. Perhaps instead of making another line of hulls that are larger, work on a solid bit of tweak scale compatibility, as it allows for many many more possibilities, and allows the kerbal engineer's little imaginations to run wild!

Just an idea! (Thanks for an awesome, and well thought out mod!) :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, I have an idea for a future content pack:

Probe ships. About 1.25 meters wide, with solar panel covered decks and electric engines. Probe bridges, and smaller bitts and blisters. I don't know how well it would work, but I think it could make an interesting way of exploring planets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Love this mod, fantastic, awesome super job on it. I was playing around with it and Tweakscale and got it to work, albeit my method utilized the Tweakscale wildcard fs_* and built my own cfg for it.

Tweakscale makes the carriers much easier to land on :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might I suggest dividing the Yacht superstructure into two halves

The top one is 3 Kerbal a command module, that can function by itself for a smaller yacht, the second is a 6 Kerbal luxury crew cabin that can be attached underneath to make mega-yachts for wealthy CEOs like Jeb when they aren't flying rockets. You could even throw in a third bottom 12 kerbal layer for those really big giga-yachts.

And of course, we can't forget the deck chairs (basically a stylized command chair with no control function to attach your extra kerbals in so they aren't on EVA when they are around the deck) and the hot tubs (same as the deck chairs but with bubbles!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just wanted to say even for a 0.0.14 version i love it. i donated aswell and got a personal email back (which creeped me out a bit)

hope you make many mods (or just continue to update this mod) as best you can :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
YAY!I have a chance to be a good modder some day!

Seek therapy, before it's too late.

- - - Updated - - -

I had a look at doing some modding, and sorta pushed the big red shiny NOPE! button instead.

- - - Updated - - -

Another thing, up the heat tolerance a bit on the cargo ship bridge. I use BD Armory, and have a modded gun that fires .303 calibre rounds. Said gun takes out the bridge in a few shots.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the thing that put me off InfiniteDice's parts is that a lot of them are very dark, where as the games parts are quite stock light. I appreciate that he may not be a top modder in terms of textures, but i am not putting him down just voicing my opinion because he has done some amazing work.

Well, I can up the heat but keep in mind, these are more or less civilian ships. Here's the difference. I was on a carrier. We pulled into port in France. While out on the town I met a Merchant Marine. He worked the sonar for a mine hunter (as he explained it the mines he hunted typically carried torpedos and had designations like kilo). He said his biggest fear was that a well place .50 cal round would sink the ship he was on. But I'll look into it.

I started a to-do list at the bottom of the OP, you can check things I've been asked to look into.. and I can remind myself to do them.

- - - Updated - - -

Just a suggestion, and In keeping with your thoughts on more modular, less needing instruction manuals (Pfft) in ksp boat parts. Perhaps instead of making another line of hulls that are larger, work on a solid bit of tweak scale compatibility, as it allows for many many more possibilities, and allows the kerbal engineer's little imaginations to run wild!

Just an idea! (Thanks for an awesome, and well thought out mod!) :)

I have been considering it. One thing I know I'll have to complete before that is a retexture. I don't think the current textures blown up by 3x will look all that great. But tweakscale has been on the burner since pretty much day 1. Just haven't had time to really dig into it yet.

And YW.

- - - Updated - - -

So, I have an idea for a future content pack:

Probe ships. About 1.25 meters wide, with solar panel covered decks and electric engines. Probe bridges, and smaller bitts and blisters. I don't know how well it would work, but I think it could make an interesting way of exploring planets.

I spotted this suggestion not long after you posted it. And I try to answer every post but I try not to answer posts on a daily basis, that way I can kinda get to all of them in one big reply and think before I open my mouth. So I've had a couple of days to think on this. So far two ideas have hit, one kinda ho-hum and the other kinda...whut?

The ho-hum idea would be along the lines of proposals to explore Europa... a probe that would melt ice and hopefully find an ocean below to explore. With that thought, I came up with the idea of 2 parts.

  • A flotation device with lights and compressed water tanks.
  • A miniature compressor/decompressor

Basically, you'd land it on Eve, Laythe or Kerbin in the water. Turn on the compressor, turn on the lights and it starts diving.

Kinda ho-hum but easy to build.

The other idea, which would be a good bit more complex, was a small boat that's launched in a round or square shape and once reaching the destination, it unfolds into a very, very basic boat. Something with a puny electric engine that you could slap some goo containers on. Haven't worked that all out in my head but I like the idea.

- - - Updated - - -

Love this mod, fantastic, awesome super job on it. I was playing around with it and Tweakscale and got it to work, albeit my method utilized the Tweakscale wildcard fs_* and built my own cfg for it.

Tweakscale makes the carriers much easier to land on :D

Sweet.

Yea, I think I've gotten around to naming everything with the fs_ so that probably made it easy. Especially since modders aren't supposed to use underscores in the part names (woops).

So my question is, how horrid does everything look?

If you've got the .cfg, mind msg'ing me a copy of it. If it works and the parts look eh... acceptable, I'll put it in the next pack.

- - - Updated - - -

Might I suggest dividing the Yacht superstructure into two halves

The top one is 3 Kerbal a command module, that can function by itself for a smaller yacht, the second is a 6 Kerbal luxury crew cabin that can be attached underneath to make mega-yachts for wealthy CEOs like Jeb when they aren't flying rockets. You could even throw in a third bottom 12 kerbal layer for those really big giga-yachts.

And of course, we can't forget the deck chairs (basically a stylized command chair with no control function to attach your extra kerbals in so they aren't on EVA when they are around the deck) and the hot tubs (same as the deck chairs but with bubbles!)

I can't say you're reading my mind but, I like the basic front styling of the yacht, I dislike the rear. While doing the texture rework I've already been considering a 3rd remodel of the yacht. While in principle, I like the idea of a layered bridge, keep in mind, these are mono-hull designs. There's a reason many people who make stock boats make pontoons. Mono-hulls flip over easy. And, the taller you make them, the easier they are to flip.

As for the hot tub... humm... how do you do water like in the astronaut complex? Hummmmm...

Lounge chairs. I got it.

247cbe098a48da55214605d96aeda2b5.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

just wanted to say even for a 0.0.14 version i love it. i donated aswell and got a personal email back (which creeped me out a bit)

hope you make many mods (or just continue to update this mod) as best you can :D

Thanks Jake! Glad you like me lil boats and as long as the community keeps motivating me, I'll keep shuffling pixels around. I'm glad to hear that e-mail worked. I didn't exactly have a way to test it so I wrote the .php script and crossed my fingers. It works off the paypal Instant Payment Notification (IPN).

Hope the mail din freak you out too much. I wanted to be sure donors knew that it went to the right place and that I'm very grateful. One advantage of donating, you now know how to contact me outside the forums should you wish.

Thanks again.

And now.... for the reason I started this post. A quick progress update.

Since it looks like IVA's are on the bottom of the list (can't say you guys disappointed me with that one) I've decided that before plowing off into a whole new collection of models for larger boats, I need to fix what I have, make it a 'final' product and then, stop fiddling with it. Then I can move on to bigger boats and more fun parts.

So, here's the current state of a retexture. These two parts, the clipper bow and hull, represent about 10 hours worth of work and it's still not right. One of the problems I'm having, are the sculpers. It seems that shading and texturing programs, like Unity, don't appreciate it when you punch holes in your models. Since creating the sculpers, they've had an odd shading around them. It's due to the way 3D moddeling works. Everything gets turned into triangles. A sculper is a circle inside a square. (In the model above you can open 'rendering options' and click on the wireframe color and it'll show the model's wire frame. Note the two forward holes in the bow deck have an extra circle.) It doesn't make for good triangles. So, when light hits it, reflections get cast in all sorts of strange directions. The process now is to break it all down into smaller and smaller bits by adding more polygons and thus, smaller surfaces for those strange shadows to get cast off of. Well, that's the theory I've been told. I wished it worked that day. They're still not coming out right.

You'll also note, this model is vertical. KSP expects everything to be built vertically. I guess there are no horizontal rockets. So, I've had to build my boats vertically. The model above is a direct export from Wings 3D (the 3d modeller I use).

Next problem is curvature and seams. Guys who mod rockets have life pretty easy. Their stuff is mostly tall, round and flat. In order to hide ugly seams between parts, they can put goofy things in there to distract you from the seam (which is why the orange rockomax tank looks like a soda can). Boats are mostly seamless (except for maybe welds) Boats also curve in all sorts of odd angles. Making a waterline look even from stem to stern is... a bit of a challenge. And adding text to a surface that bends in all 3 directions is another fun bit.

And, since the current prop is pretty crude, here's one I tinkered with. Not sure if it'll make production but it's looking better. This one has a lot of polygons though. I try to keep the count a lot lower than this. But, to look good, takes polygons. (btw, this is a horrid jpg, it looked better in my modeller). Why a new prop? The stern will get a minor workover when I get to it for textures. The current prop location was a quick fix. I intend to put it where it belongs, under the boat.

PropScreenshot.jpg

Edited by Fengist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason why i brought up the heat tolerance of the bridge is because when used with the RoRo bow it makes quite a convincing landing craft. As such i drove (Mechjeb drove) a tank to the shore and found that it just squeezed through the gap, so i loaded it. I then piloted the ship out a bit and got out my new Westland Lysander (I also landed it on a carrier here) and told it to attack the tank(the Lysander only has 2 .303's). The few first stray shots destroyed the bridge and disabled the ship? Huh, ;.;.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A message to Fengist

1. The new texturing looks totally awesome

2. If you could make a few new textures, (red and black cargo ship, gray navy ship) that can be swapped out for the default using the firespitter texture switch, just in your spare time or down the road, that would be super awesome.

3. Tweakscale. Tweakscale support is something that I think really should be added.

Just my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your new textures look awesome! You've inspired me to start modding, I just installed wings 3D, and am about to start following beale's instructions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So in my testing with Tweakscale, mind you I have better buoyancy installed, I found that

  1. Awesome but eats RAM (Not the mods fault, fully KSP)
  2. Needs a bigger hangar...had to install a mod to increase the size
  3. I suppose that 5m was a bit big but it loads (and it was epic)
  4. Bounce...it bounces when loaded. Must use blisters.

Keep in mind, I went way too big.

I used a simple method for Tweakscale. No real limits on size either.

@PART[FS_*]

{

MODULE

{

name = TweakScale

defaultScale = 1

type = stack

}

}

@PART[FS_*]

{

MODULE

{

name = TweakScale

defaultScale = 1

type = surface

}

}

The CFG I use is stored here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ikd9x6xuafiqvt6/Maritime_TweakScale.cfg?dl=0

The call is a bit of a duplicate. KSP will ping it for a duplicate, pretty sure that only one is required, but I never did remove the second.

Only thing I would like would be higher heat resistance. I created a crazy contraption that works but it is a bit nutty. Perhaps an electric placeable propeller? I tried the FS electric prop, no go. Without the requirement of intake air it could be usable over in Laythe & Eve.

I saw the pic of the IVA so that is coming.

I tried to make a sub on Laythe but the compressed water didn't fill. Are they viable for other planet usage?

Edited by Jatwaa
added link to cfg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would really, really like to use your mod, but unfortunately my RAM limit is overflowing as it is :-( maybe when 1.1 comes out with 64-bit support, until then, I will definitely keep an eye on your mod, cause its so awesome! I wish you alot of patience and keep up the enthusiasm!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your new textures look awesome! You've inspired me to start modding, I just installed wings 3D, and am about to start following beale's instructions.

Same here Fengist, pass on my thanks to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I downloaded this pack as a goof when I found it trying to figure out a buoyancy problem with an Eve lander. So I built an aircraft carrier and a boat and messed around for a bit, then I decided to go back to my "Serious" save and figure out my lander. Only then did I find the part "Inflatable Dinghy"... A few clicks later an my problems were solved...

I present to you: The Eveboat! Soon will be making another run!

kyixzDO.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your mod, is awesome! I wish I was as good at modding as you...

You should consider making hollow boat parts of some sort, it would be fun! Also an extra wide rocket launching platform would be cool, then you could finally launch your rockets from the water! (Of course it should have a very high heat resistance, otherwise it would explode when you launch the rocket.)

P.S

Did I already say that I really love your mod?

If not so, I really love your mod!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your mod, is awesome! I wish I was as good at modding as you...

You should consider making hollow boat parts of some sort, it would be fun! Also an extra wide rocket launching platform would be cool, then you could finally launch your rockets from the water! (Of course it should have a very high heat resistance, otherwise it would explode when you launch the rocket.)

P.S

Did I already say that I really love your mod?

If not so, I really love your mod!

This is a good idea. Some ship parts with deep cargo capability, make it precisely like 8x4 meters or something so by using 1x1 or 2x2 structural pieces it could be roofed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you able to allow the hulls to use tweakscale for now?

Someone posted their own CFG for it on the last page....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The reason why i brought up the heat tolerance of the bridge is because when used with the RoRo bow it makes quite a convincing landing craft. As such i drove (Mechjeb drove) a tank to the shore and found that it just squeezed through the gap, so i loaded it. I then piloted the ship out a bit and got out my new Westland Lysander (I also landed it on a carrier here) and told it to attack the tank(the Lysander only has 2 .303's). The few first stray shots destroyed the bridge and disabled the ship? Huh, ;.;.

While I do make a lot of explosions in KSP, they're mostly unintentional. I save combat stuff for PVP games. Soooo, I had no idea. Will look into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.