Devnote Tuesday: A big announcement

[Tiberion]

So, Polygon has an article about this up, with some comments from Max. (Once again, the forums get the information from 3rd parties, like always)

http://www.polygon.com/e3-2015/2015/6/17/8796869/kerbal-space-program-is-coming-to-ps4-thanks-to-sonys-strength-in

Mostly cheerleading about Latin America and new markets, but there is this quote:

Console controls, Sabido added, are largely being gleaned from community-based mods already available in the game's forums. The PS4 version will feature a new, unified UI system that may carry over into the PC game.

This is exactly what I didn't want to read. This is ALWAYS the pitfall with cross-platform games, especially those that do not naturally lend themselves to console-style controls (and KSP is easily the greatest example of this in history, even more than mouse-based strategy games, which are almost universally subpar on consoles.)

We already know they had to redo the UI due to Unity 5 changes, as stated in a past dev note. It's fairly clear now that during this redevelopment of the UI that it will have been changed to work with the Dual Shock contoller. I just can't imagine that concessions to the UI had to have been made and that we'll be getting a different UI with the Unity5 release that is "console optimized" - those words should frighten every PC gamer who has played a console-first game (like Skyim, which was crippled by a console UI, but there have been hundreds of others)

So the theory that this doesn't affect the PC version is debunked. One can wish that it won't have negative consequences (I wish this very very much) but we honestly have no way to know this, and a dev saying this is just being as hopeful as we are.

To me, there's a huge concern that future features and implementations will have to be simplified or compromised to work on the Ps4. Multiplayer seems to be a big example of this danger - it seems like the entire thing might have to be designed to to be "closed" with lots of security overhead so it is PSN-safe rather than being open and fairly lightweight without much central control, which males much more sense for the KSP we knew before yesterday.

I mean, I don't begrudge Squad trying to hit new markets, but I don't feel KSP was polished up enough in its current platform for this to happen yet, and I think its just a bunch of "Shiny, happy hopefulness" to think this won't affect their core customers, possibly negatively.

We need way more information about this before I'll feel good about it.

[Red Iron Crown]

Tiberion, HarvesteR has indicated otherwise:

No, not by any means. Our UI overhaul will indeed support development of a console-friendly UI, but that will be for the console version only. The PC UI will work just the same as it does now, maybe even get a few improvements for itself in the process.

Remember, KSP is a PC game being ported to run on a console. The port is branching off the main PC development code, not the other way around. We did need to work together for the Unity5 part though, because that affects everyone.

Cheers

[Linear]

Tiberion, HarvesteR has indicated otherwise:

The whole debacle could have been avoided if the FAQ actually had meaningful Questions and Answers. It doesn't take a genius to think 'right these guys love their mid-range+ pc's, what will they want to know about a console version'.

[Tiberion]

Well I mean, Harvester has never given me a reason not to trust him...

But.. that seems like an odd choice honestly, the more commonality that the codebases share, the easier it is for them (both devs.) I mean, it may not be better for us, but it would definitely be better for them. So, conflicting statements aside, I still don't know what to think, and none of it pleases me.

And my point about future decisions being made to work better on Ps4 remain. Its a huge leap of faith to think that won't happen.

[softweir]

Console controls, Sabido added, are largely being gleaned from community-based mods already available in the game's forums. The PS4 version will feature a new, unified UI system that may carry over into the PC game.

Relax. They don't say "UI which that will carry over" they say "UI system that may carry over". (In fact they got that wrong, if you read HarvesteR's blog: they ARE rewriting the UI to use Unity 5's new, powerful, easy-to-use UI model.) But that doesn't mean that any design decisions will also carry across, only underlying code for the UI-engine.

Yes, some software houses insist on having a UI which is consistent across all platforms. Sometimes it's for practical reasons (it makes development easier and means they need fewer graphical assets) and sometimes it's because of some mule-stubborn insistence that the game looks the same on all platforms. But that only applies when one software house is developing all platforms, which is not the case here.

[basic.syntax]

To me, there's a huge concern that future features and implementations will have to be simplified or compromised to work on the Ps4. Multiplayer seems to be a big example of this danger - it seems like the entire thing might have to be designed to to be "closed" with lots of security overhead so it is PSN-safe rather than being open and fairly lightweight without much central control, which males much more sense for the KSP we knew before yesterday.

It may be, that if PS4 gets multiplayer, it will be exclusive to their network. I expect PC multiplayer to happen on lots of different private and public servers. I don't fear PS4 networking requirements dumbing down PC.

[En_Dotter]

Maybe the dev notes are in the announcements subforum...

[JacobT11]

From the Polygon article, found a few things that may or may not have been touched on that seemed a little odd to me.

The port of KSP is being done in Unity by a developer called Flying Tiger Entertainment, previously a developer of mobile games.

"When we were looking around we found a studio with a tech demo of [KSP] that was just working perfectly," Sabido said. "They floored us." It took about a month to get the Unity engine to do what they needed it to do, Sabido said, but after that it's been smooth sailing for more than six months.

So clearly the PS4 KSP will not be solely developed by SQUAD, but rather the primarily mobile dev studio Flying Tiger. In addition, and this could just be me, but is that just odd wording on the part of Sabido, saying KSP runs on Unity, or what?

[Nemrav]

So clearly the PS4 KSP will not be solely developed by SQUAD, but rather the primarily mobile dev studio Flying Tiger. In addition, and this could just be me, but is that just odd wording on the part of Sabido, saying KSP runs on Unity, or what?

KSP does run on unity (shocker for unity haters) and is typically a cyclical topic of "what if KSP ran on this shiny new innaccessible engine used to make AAA style graphics games" ...

Oh well, I guess the inverse of flying tiger == bad could be that, this will be their first big deal that makes them a great dev.... (them being bad was topic of 2nd quarter of this thread)

[Tiberion]

Yeah, there have been a few posts announcing the other developer, and a lot of skepticism about their record by commenters, myself included.

What that quote suggests is that Flying Tiger had a tech Demo of KSP built for Ps4 that they were able to show Squad, so this might actually be FT's idea, not Squad. It them took Squad a month of helping them to get KSP working on Ps4 well enough to start actual development or whatever.

Also, this has been in development for 7 months already (one more of Unity work,and 6 months of smooth sailing since.) Once again we're left to wonder how getting a sony license or working with FT affected the "one beta release and done" decision, which happened around that time. Note that Polygon's article says they hope to release it in the third quarter of this year, rather than in 2016. That's from July 1st to September 30th. Maybe Max was a little sleepy during the Polygon interview.

One thing is for sure, things are far different from the very open development discussions that existed around here in the early days when I first picked up KSP. Sometimes its hard to reconcile.

Edit; another question from the article; It says the console controls are mostly based on community mods available on the forums. This seems to directly contradict what Harvester said in his blog, that they are building them from scratch. *headscratch*

Edited June 17, 2015 by Tiberion

[Baconation]

This is disappointing.

Sony is on a MAJOR kick lately to make as much as they can exclusive to just Playstation. Sony will manipulate Squad, as they are the weaker company, and will essentially bully them into making certain features that were meant for everyone, to be just for the Playstation.

Squad, you should have kept your game on just the PC....will Playstations modding system even be implemented? Will it work?

This is a cash grab by Squad (sorry guys, you're great but this is what it seems like) and an attempt for Playstation to STEAL more things for their own systems.

[randomness5555]

[quote name=

And in the end it brings in more money to a company who hopefully reinvest it in more goodies for us Minecraft as an example went into Xbox & mobile apps, and they are still developing the PC client to this day.

QUOTE]

Sorry man, but Mojang is NOT developing minecraft anymore. Sure, they're doing something, but we havn't had anything significant in over a year now. As for ksp? I don't own a PS4-but know enough about them to say that KSP is not suited for porting to a console like this, neither was Minecraft, and I am so scared that one of my fav PC games will go the same way with nothing significant added since sprinting (not counting the end because I've never made it that far but that's for another topic on another forum, and I won't even mention the undersea temples) which was added over two years ago... I think.

Squad, hear our prayers! Don't be tempted by the dark gods of cash grabbing and Cosoles! We have been devoted and loyal subjects, please don't abandon us in our hour of need!

Edited June 17, 2015 by randomness5555

[DuoDex]

Guy doesn't even

, can't see how a controller will hold him back at all.

Make him play on a PS4 controller. With no hands.

This is disappointing.

Sony is on a MAJOR kick lately to make as much as they can exclusive to just Playstation. Sony will manipulate Squad, as they are the weaker company, and will essentially bully them into making certain features that were meant for everyone, to be just for the Playstation.

Squad, you should have kept your game on just the PC....will Playstations modding system even be implemented? Will it work?

This is a cash grab by Squad (sorry guys, you're great but this is what it seems like) and an attempt for Playstation to STEAL more things for their own systems.

I'm sure that there is a premium/windfall Sony is in the habit of handing out to people who make their games Playstation only - but KSP is not. It's on PC too. I don't think I can see Sony paying Squad to do a 'PS4 exclusive' that's already on PC.

Plus, I don't think Squad would bend over for someone like Sony. Although if Sony bends over for Squad/fawns over them, who knows what would happen?

Edited June 17, 2015 by DuoDex

[JacobT11]

I don't think I can see Sony paying Squad to do a 'PS4 exclusive' that's already on PC.

Unless the PS4 version is different enough from the PC version to make it an exclusive. As Tiberion said, it seems that Flying Tiger has been working on the PS4 version for 7 months prior to this announcement, there's no real way of telling how much it might have diverged from the PC version. Are they sharing the same codebase, or did everything get forked from KSp 7 months ago and they're building off of that? Hard to say till we get more info.

[dan2600]

But projecting the failures of completely unrelated projects onto KSP, thus creating a one-sided picture and then stating that it will be the inevitable end of the prject won't help. There are plenty of good stories, too.

I challenge you to find a single story of a successful post release PC to Console port. Even Minecraft on Xbox is always rated lower than the PC version.

Edited June 17, 2015 by dan2600
more recent examples

[luizopiloto]

Doom... for SNES...

[KasperVld]

I challenge you to find a single story of a successful post release PC to Console port. Even Minecraft on Xbox is always rated lower than the PC version.

Half Life comes to mind, as well as Max Payne

edit: that said, I'm not a console gamer myself, so it's very likely I'm missing a lot of games.

[Spazmataz]

Is it just me or does Jeb appear to be fixin' to make a Fallout bottlecap mine.

<just some="" humor=""></just>(just some humor.)

Edited June 17, 2015 by Spazmataz

[basic.syntax]

Discussion about PC to PS ports being historically less successful, seems to me more realistic than other discussion that KSP on PS4 is somehow a "cash grab."

[Motokid600]

I wanna play fallout now...

[White Owl]

I don't care one way or the other about porting to a console. It's just that replacing the devnotes with what is effectively a response image (forbidden in this forum, by the way) reminds me strongly of the middle panel of this comic.

[sal_vager]

You know, you could read HarvesteRs article, it might make you feel better.

[White Owl]

You know, you could read HarvesteRs article, it might make you feel better.

Excellent link! Seems like exactly the sort of thing that would have been very good to see in the devnotes, instead of an insulting reaction image.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Seems like exactly the sort of thing that would have been very good to see in the devnotes

You mean you want actual devnotes in the Devnotes?! Good lord, talk about entitled! /s

[stibbons]

Developers: Hey guys check out this thing we're finally able to talk about that we're so happy about we're throwing an image up here!

Community: HOW DARE YOU