what makes people use 64bit (and how can we avoid it)

[Mulbin]

Ok, this isnt a 64 bit flame... or a 64bit rant.

As many people already know 64 bit builds are a big problem for modders. Although there is no official build there are still ways to run 64bit which are still causing headaches. So here is a poll to find out what it is that makes 64bit necessary for users.

I use it (on one of my installs) because I like graphics! Although I could run in opengl and use my graphics mods my post processor (gemfx) isnt currently compatible with opengl. So for me its essential for ksp to look pretty.

However I am looking at options for getting sweetfx running in opengl to remove this particular reason for running 64bit (will post a tutorial if it works out.

poll above is to see why else 64 is being used and whether there is a way to avoid it to make bug reporting easier.

[OddFunction]

Significantly better FPS, better graphics. Compared to Linux.

That's pretty much it.

[Snarfster]

You might want to modify that poll a bit. As far as I know 64 bit is only an issue on windows. On Linux it runs fine.

(Yes, I am running 64 bit on Linux)

[cicatrix]

I tried Linux 64 bit but reverted back to Win 32 bit version since FPS on Linux was substantially lower. I use 79 different mods (including visual improvements) according to CKAN and I still have a decent performance on Windows 32 bit version. I watched the ksp process memory and it still have some reserve. It appears that having more memory doesn't make the game run faster, quite the contrary (at least on my machine) the FPS dropped (Linux video drivers are still far from being perfect, I suppose).

Still, I would gladly switch onto 64 bit if I see the difference in FPS.

By the way, running the game with nolog option can add some FPS to your game at the cost of not logging.

[selfish_meme]

From what I have seen the Windows Directx11 32bit and 64bit versions have better looking graphics than Linux (unless you force OpenGL in Windows) and possibly better frame rates, though that could depend a bit on what Graphics card you have, Nvidia has better support and other games from people like valve show almost neck and neck performance with Windows. For now though everything works better, e.g. memory overhead, and bugs in Linux.

Note: You must use the proprietary video drivers in Linux and certain command line options to get the best reasonable performance. If you haven't then you did not do it properly.

[Linear]

I don't want to have to use a crummy work around that isn't officially supported?

[Kerbal007]

May as well put my 2cents in. KSP On linux 64bit has not crashed once. Looks pretty. Drivers were easy to configure. Im actually put off installing the windows version until it can use more than 4gb of ram without sacrificing texture quality.

[gmiddlemass]

Why do you need the "and how to avoid it" part?

What's wrong with just letting people play the game the way they want to play it?

If a mod doesn't work for someone running X64 then so be it, X64 isn't officially supported at the moment so mods don't need to support it, those that do work correctly are just a bonus and the authors are under no obligation to keep them updated.

Personally I probably would use it (on Windows) if it were officially supported, just for the perceived performance gains and knowledge that I should be able to install whatever mods I like without hitting the memory wall. I know i could use Linux but I have no desire to switch to that or to use the dual boot option.

[soulsource]

Note: You must use the proprietary video drivers in Linux

I disagree for AMD cards. My experience is that the proprietary AMD drivers are a *beep* of *beep*. Of course, if you're OK with micro-stuttering, tearing during video playback, graphics glitches, regular crashes, the complete lack of desktop integration (ok, switching resolution works, but try disabling a monitor without X-server restart), no support for VAAPI or EGL (= no up to date Gnome 3 desktop) and ugly font rendering in exchange for maybe a 50% increase in fps, then go ahead and install them. When using an up to date open source radeonsi driver stack with an R9 or one of the faster R7 cards KSP is purely CPU limited, unless one uses visual enhancement mods.

But back to topic: I'm running 64bit KSP on Linux, simply because when I bought KSP it was much easier to get 64bit software working flawlessly on my distribution of choice (Gentoo). Although this is no longer an issue (Gentoo got full multilib support meanwhile), I never really spent a second thought about trying to run the 32bit version.

[cantab]

Because I'm running an operating system which has a fully stable 64-bit build of KSP that has not given me any trouble.

(Linux, specifically Xubuntu 14.04.)

[Jansn]

Me too plays on Linux64. Was starting on Windows with Stock-KSP.

After adding some Mods later, KSP 32 Bit become very unstable.

And then i run into the 4GB-Ram-Concrete-Wall.

Switched to Lubuntu, very rare crashes/freezes, and KSP_64 uses 15 GB of RAM.

Graphics looks same under Dx and OpenGL with EVE and Astronomers Pack.

[cicatrix]

Me too plays on Linux64. Was starting on Windows with Stock-KSP.

After adding some Mods later, KSP 32 Bit become very unstable.

And then i run into the 4GB-Ram-Concrete-Wall.

Switched to Lubuntu, very rare crashes/freezes, and KSP_64 uses 15 GB of RAM.

Graphics looks same under Dx and OpenGL with EVE and Astronomers Pack.

What videocard do you have? EVE + Atronomer with volumetric clouds give me ~5-6 FPS on Linux

[pincushionman]

Why do you need the "and how to avoid it" part?…

Because some users do not have 64-bit systems. This number may be shrinking every day, but so long as the operating systems supported offer 32-bit installations, developers who want to expand their user base must assume that their users have this limitation.

It's what tees me off in the development discussion threads like the outer planets ones - I see "get us 64-bit so we can have this feature/so this feature works right/etc!" This is hogwash; they need to fix the features that make it un-feasible on 32-bit, whatever those are.

[Jansn]

What videocard do you have? EVE + Atronomer with volumetric clouds give me ~5-6 FPS on Linux

MSI GTX 560 TI Hawk

Crucial 16GB 1600 RAM

Intel 4790K

I have 20 to 30 FPS (if KerboKatz' FPS Counter is right)

Depends on the scene.

[includao]

It runs better because of mods and memory limits. Mods makes this game enjoyable.

[hazarada]

Major software companies are dropping 32bit releases in favor of 64bit ones, doing the opposite would be kinda backwards don't you think? I haven't seen a non 64 bit capable pc (thats not in a museum) for years. Better question would be - what makes people use 32bit and how can we get rid of it?

[Green Baron]

I prefer games that run on linux beause i do most of of my things on linux, the 64bit are mere coincidence, in fact i was astonished when i first heard about stabiltiy problems of 64bit on windows.

But i'm very often even more astonished when i read that people switch to a new os just for the 64bit support. I wouldn't do that ... the world is not rounder and the sky still dark.

Valentina just compared framerates just after launch (mod-F12) with two identical rockets, unmodded, lowest graphic settings, on linux mint 17, i3 1.7ghz, intel hd4400, 4gb ram total:

32bit: 30.2

64bit: 38.4

When Jeb returns he'll want to know why she didn't wait ...

:-)

k

Edited June 17, 2015 by kemde

[regex]

Why do you need the "and how to avoid it" part?

Because KSP for Win 64 is an unstable ball of crap that some rare people have had good luck with. The problem is that almost all errors a mod may have under Win 64 can be traced back to Win 64 (unless they were already identified as errors under other versions). Long story short, no modder wants to support a black box oozing the stench of dung because it's pointless and stinks.

[Sandworm]

Take any comments from those "trying" the linux build with a grain of salt. A windows user trying linux for the first time isn't the best person to comment on performance issues. Switching a machine to a new OS isn't like installing an app on your phone. There can be lots of little eccentricities that might pop up, driver issues being one of them. This only gets worse when, as in the vase majority of cases, people are installing linux on whitebox windows machines that can have lots of tiny proprietary driver issues.

Switching to linux is a good thing. But switching OS just to squeeze out some performance from a particularly buggy indi game is not.

[Orbital Vagabond]

Why are all the choices variations of openGL problems? I don't see one for increasing allowed memory usage for more mods.

[falcon2000]

Because i enjoy mods. Lots of them. Opengl gives me crap framerates. I have 32 gb of ram, I'd like to be able to use the mods i want without having to leave some off or be punished by "out of memory" errors when i still have gbs left to spare.

Edited June 17, 2015 by falcon2000
Mistyping

[Red Iron Crown]

I use Win32, and use OpenGL if the install needs more memory. I would use an official Win64 version if available, as it would be better than the alternatives:

1. Run Win32, have the low RAM limit.

2. Run Win32 with OpenGL, give up anti-aliasing, accept lower performance, still have a low RAM limit even if a bit larger.

3. Run the Win64 community workaround, have good mods disable themselves, plus its own bugs.

4. Run Linux64, give up anti-aliasing and 3d mouse support, accept lower performance, plus have to learn a new OS and maintain an install of it for one game.

So yeah, a good Win64 version can't come soon enough.

[Motokid600]

If you have nvidia at least I know you can force AA through the drivers on Linux. Works fine, looks great. I've also not noticed a performance hit on Linux other then when moving the view. That's only because I'm too lazy to lower my mouse dpi and I mostly fly with the hud disabled which circumvents the fps issues.

Love KSP on Linux. Until a stable Win64 build hits KSP will remain exclusive to my Linux install.

[Hotaru]

I've tried running KSP on OSX, Windows x86 with DX9, DX11, and OpenGl, Linux (Ubuntu) x64, and Windows x64. On my system, the Windows x64 workaround is the only option that is stable and has acceptable performance with more than a few mods installed. I'm not particularly happy about this, to be honest. I don't like having to use an unsupported hack to get the game running properly, but at the moment it's my best option.

OSX and all the Windows x86 options all run out of memory with even a lightly modded game, and have poor FPS to boot, as well as serious graphical glitches in OpenGl. Ubuntu is tolerable, but on my system it's a major pain in the neck to start up in Linux and the FPS is noticeably worse than on Windows. Windows x64 has the best FPS and fewest crashes of all the options, and apart from a few nuisance bugs (I've so far found exactly three that I'm confident are unique to Windows x64) it is by far the most stable. If the price I have to pay for a playable game (with virtually unlimited mods!) is that I occasionally have to edit and recompile a few dlls to remove 64-bit restrictions, so be it; the gameplay improvement is worth the investment of time and effort a hundred times over.

It's worth adding that "unsupported" doesn't mean the same as "unstable." In spite of its reputation, so far I haven't heard a single report of serious instability (beyond a few minor known issues) in KSP 1.0+ on Windows x64, and I have heard a lot of reports of it working very smoothly. The evidence I've seen (admittedly limited) suggests that, for some reason, at least on some systems, Windows x64 KSP is much more usable now than it was pre-1.0.

Still, as I said before I severely dislike having to use an unsupported hack, no matter how well it works. Although it has no game-breaking issues (at least on my system) it does have several nuisance issues, several of which are, well, pretty serious nuisances. I would very much like to see either an officially-supported Windows x64 build or some kind of solution to make x86 more usable, and if such a solution comes along I'll absolutely give it a try.

[Green Baron]

Switching to linux is a good thing. But switching OS just to squeeze out some performance from a particularly buggy indi game is not.

That's what i'm trying to say ... allthough i would have chosen other attributes for the game ... :-)

k