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[1.7.3] Science - Full reward!


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  • 2 weeks later...

A nice simple mod, thanks for the work. Just the functionality I need for starting a new career game :)

Quick bug report: if RemoteTech is installed, the Science - Full reward! description gets added also to RemoteTech antennas, although they have no science experiments. To fix this, add

!MODULE[ModuleRTAntenna]

to the filter in the .cfg so that it reads

@PART[*]:HAS[#category[Science],!MODULE[ModuleScienceLab],!MODULE[ModuleResourceScanner],!MODULE[ModuleOrbitalSurveyor],!MODULE[ModuleDataTransmitter],!MODULE[ModuleRTAntenna]]:FINAL

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Also, as @RKain101 has already pointed out, also the KER flight computers (Kerbal Engineering System (EngineerChip) and ER-7500 Computer Flight Unit (Engineer7500)) are detected as science experiments.

To filter out these, we can use

!MODULE[FlightEngineerModule]

so that the filter becomes:

@PART[*]:HAS[#category[Science],!MODULE[ModuleScienceLab],!MODULE[ModuleResourceScanner],!MODULE[ModuleOrbitalSurveyor],!MODULE[ModuleDataTransmitter],!MODULE[ModuleRTAntenna],!MODULE[FlightEngineerModule]]:FINAL

I second the idea of removing the blurb or at least making it much shorter. Just "Returns full science with one trip." or something? Opinions? @maculator?

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
On 9/16/2016 at 3:08 PM, BloodyIce said:

Would it be hard to update this for 1.2 pre? Or is their someway i could set the game to give full?

I believe it still requires module manager, which will not be updated until 1.2 is officially released. Bummer too cause I hate leaving all those small bits of science behind everywhere :D

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  • 3 weeks later...

Tested it with the new Modulemanager and it works for 1.2 pre. So feel free to use it. Since nothing changed with the science defs, I guess there won't be a problem. I didnt find a conflict.

 

Edit

Well the return modul has the extended description as well now.... I'll just delete the description- it was fun once but let's stick to the simple things

Edited by maculator
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Why science cheats? As soon as you get the science lab, you increase the science by 5x making it OP as heck. I unlock basically the entire Community Tech Tree (added nodes up to 10K science) just by going to Mun/Minmus and biome hopping there a few times. Set up a station with 4 labs as as many 2 star scientists and you are generating science out the nose.

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It's not about "cheating" it's about you planing/executing a really big mission to let's say moho, collect all the science, travel home and be happy. Rather than you  planing/executing a really big mission to let's say moho, collect "all" the science, travel home and do this 2 more times while biting your keyboard.

I (and I assume some others too) love going places, love science, love big missions but I hate to do those missions 3 times just to "complete" a experiment.

I couldn't stand the look of my science reports and see that I have visited every biome and situation on kerbin and now I have to do it 2 more times to get the 100%.

Tl;dr:

Go to a place do science, be done with it != cheating

 

Edit: Ever played Far Cry 3?

"Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?"

Edited by maculator
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It is if you are fixing the values to get max science right away  :lol:

Science labs are the stock cheating system, I think they should decrease the return rate to 2x to make it more fair and needing to go to other planets instead of unlocking everything within the kerbin system. BTW I never take multiple samples (mostly mystery goo), just one per biome. I recommend xScience and automated science gatherer (collects science automatically when you enter a new biome and stows the data in the command module). If you're using science skimping mods anyway, might as well do it right :lol::cool:

 

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24 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

It is if you are fixing the values to get max science right away  :lol:

Science labs are the stock cheating system, I think they should decrease the return rate to 2x to make it more fair and needing to go to other planets instead of unlocking everything within the kerbin system. BTW I never take multiple samples (mostly mystery goo), just one per biome. I recommend xScience and automated science gatherer (collects science automatically when you enter a new biome and stows the data in the command module). If you're using science skimping mods anyway, might as well do it right :lol::cool:

 

You don't get my point. If you play on different settings the turnback of science varies anyways. I don't care if I get 100 science points or 84 or 62.35468990532211, all that matters to me are the per-cents, the green bar. I wan't it FULL. I don't want to go to places dozens of times. And when I see the reports in the R&D and there are some inbetween with only 66.76% my eye starts twitching.^^

 

Oh and your statement:

29 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

BTW I never take multiple samples (mostly mystery goo), just one per biome

doesn't make it better.

 

WHY IN JEBS NAME WOULD YOU DO THAT? And btw if you'd use this mod you'd only need to do it this way to get a nice complete list! COMPLETE LIST, makes ma calm down.

Hope you got my point and intention :)

Cheers

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Haha, you have issues! :lol:

I don't bother with the last 5% of the science for one experiment, that is usually only 0.1-2 science points that will not help any to get the next techtree node unlocked. Hence I take a sample and never look back for a second one. I can make some screenshots that will make you go nuts :o

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1 minute ago, Jimbodiah said:

Haha, you have issues! :lol:

what :confused: if you don't like, don't install :retrograde: 

This mod is the only reason I can still play career/science mode.

Thank you, maculator!

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1 minute ago, Jimbodiah said:

Haha, you have issues! :lol:

I don't bother with the last 5% of the science for one experiment, that is usually only 0.1-2 science points that will not help any to get the next techtree node unlocked. Hence I take a sample and never look back for a second one. I can make some screenshots that will make you go nuts :o

Please don't.

Well it is not about science points it's just about the green bar and the bars in the R&D. I have collected all the science of kerbin, minmus and mun in my previous career so it's a full 100%, nothing to get there anymore, not a single bit of a point. With stable 1.2 I'll revive this career and head on to the duna system. One nice and big mission, well planed and hopefully executed too and the next system is on the list. This is, was, and always will be my intention for this mod. Can't argue with that.

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On 18.6.2015 at 3:25 PM, maculator said:

If you like this, you might like this too:

"Kickstart"

It's a basic modulemanager config too and sets ALL the experiments and the verry basic rover wheels to be available at the start of a career.

Too small for a own thread in my opinion, but worth sharing. Just rightclick this LINK, save target as..., and put it inside your GameData folder.

Like "Science - Full reward!" it's not capable of breaking any saves! Cheers.

I removed the option to unlock the experiments at the start node from the mod and put it (+ the unlock of the basic roverwheels) inside a own .cfg.

Now I'm done with editing forth and back and it will stay like this until something breaks.

Cheers

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On 10/7/2016 at 3:49 PM, Jimbodiah said:

Why science cheats? As soon as you get the science lab, you increase the science by 5x making it OP as heck. I unlock basically the entire Community Tech Tree (added nodes up to 10K science) just by going to Mun/Minmus and biome hopping there a few times. Set up a station with 4 labs as as many 2 star scientists and you are generating science out the nose.

Use this mod, nerf your science in career mode to 60%, and don't use the MPL ever because it's OP as hell no matter what you do. Personally, I think the MPL should boost the maximum transmission value of science to up to 100% (as in get 100% of the possible science via transmission), depending on scientists aboard. Maybe one day when I learn to mod... but for now, MPL is game breaking and it's much more challenging without it.

Edited by Suedocode
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4 hours ago, Suedocode said:

Use this mod, nerf your science in career mode to 60%, and don't use the MPL ever because it's OP as hell no matter what you do. Personally, I think the MPL should boost the maximum transmission value of science to up to 100% (as in get 100% of the possible science via transmission), depending on scientists aboard. Maybe one day when I learn to mod... but for now, MPL is game breaking and it's much more challenging without it.

This is an awsome idea.Really awsome. I will look Into this later. I guess it can be done.

It's a bit more complicated:

This mod changes the ScienceDfs, so even before you do a experiment the game knows there is only one option: Full bar.

When you do a experiment the part with the experiment defines the "xmitDataScalar" (the penalty for transmittig), and builds the report, wich you then can pass to the lab.

There is nothing the lab could do to fix this :/ it's all done before.

I really love your idea but you'll need someone who can write plugins. I suggest you go over to the addon discussions and open a thread there. And if you do let me know I'd like to know where this is going.

 

What can be done with just module manager is the following:

Set "xmitDataScalar" to 1 (100% transmission) and to compensate higher the transmission costs. The normal communication is unaffect by the transmission cost so technically one could rise the cost to abstruse levels wich require a really big generator and a lot of EC.

It's also possible to change the need for EC to everything else. I keep thinking about this and maybe try some stuff when I got the time.

Edited by maculator
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Changing the output rate is not a problem, ie going from 5 to 1. Actually it's 6x as you can gather the same science for a second time once you start researching the original.

 

BTW: It would be fairer if you could couple the data exchange rate (5x) to the science reward slider, giving 100% at 1x and 500% at 5x and just have a low fixed bonus of around 50% (vs 500%) for using a lab over retrieving it directly, else labs would be pointless.

Edited by Jimbodiah
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23 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

Changing the output rate is not a problem, ie going from 5 to 1. Actually it's 6x as you can gather the same science for a second time once you start researching the original.

 

BTW: It would be fairer if you could couple the data exchange rate (5x) to the science reward slider, giving 100% at 1x and 500% at 5x and just have a low fixed bonus of around 50% (vs 500%) for using a lab over retrieving it directly, else labs would be pointless.

I'm not 100% sure how mm works in this case. But the game multiplyes the ScienceCap to get your reward adjusted to your settings. So maybe it could be possible to add a function to the

scienceMultiplier. But like I said I'm not sure. Does modulemanager only act while loading the game or does it also change stuff when loading a savegame, that would be important.

 

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I already patched science labs to produce only 2x so that is no issue. Perhaps even leave it fixed as the slider will already multiply by up to 5x anyway. I have to try the 5x setting with a stock lab: the Mun should give enough science to unlock the entire techtree without even landing on it. Insane.

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On 10.10.2016 at 0:22 PM, maculator said:

This is an awsome idea.Really awsome. I will look Into this later. I guess it can be done.

It's a bit more complicated:

This mod changes the ScienceDfs, so even before you do a experiment the game knows there is only one option: Full bar.

When you do a experiment the part with the experiment defines the "xmitDataScalar" (the penalty for transmittig), and builds the report, wich you then can pass to the lab.

There is nothing the lab could do to fix this :/ it's all done before.

I really love your idea but you'll need someone who can write plugins. I suggest you go over to the addon discussions and open a thread there. And if you do let me know I'd like to know where this is going.

 

What can be done with just module manager is the following:

Set "xmitDataScalar" to 1 (100% transmission) and to compensate higher the transmission costs. The normal communication is unaffect by the transmission cost so technically one could rise the cost to abstruse levels wich require a really big generator and a lot of EC.

It's also possible to change the need for EC to everything else. I keep thinking about this and maybe try some stuff when I got the time.

Can you make the transmission cost "mpl-data"? So only a mpl would be able to transmit data at all, but with 100%. And for balance s1 could use the mk1 lab mod.

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