seanth

WIP: BioMass mod needs testers (greenhouses, gas compressors, biofuel production)

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BioMass has undergone a significant rework to take advantage of the 1.0.2's new modules and ability to easily edit the tech tree.

Because there are four different levels of difficulty (Classic, Easy, Medium, and Hard), and 13 to 20 parts (depending on the difficulty of play chosen), we could use some help in play testing things.

Those interested in helping can grab a tester version fromhttps://github.com/VigilanteInc/BioMass/releases/tag/0.9.2.1

This version lets player turn nearly all biological processes on/off for testing purposes.

If you can help us out, PM me and I can give you a list of things you can help check, depending on whether you want to check out Classic, Easy, Medium, or Hard

------------------

Edits:

*2015.0618 18:07 Updated Hard yellow greenhouse. Removed artificial light. Removed Easy's food production module. Reduced node attachment sizes. Removed duplicate shutter buttons. Removed seed resource. Added light resource. Defaults to half max amount of biomass

*2015.0618 18:32 This is what happens when you start using automated tools to help. Added light resource back to all greenhouses. Fixed red, hard attachment node sizes. Removed duplicate modules from Easy greenhouses.

*2015.0618 18:44 Removed algae greenhouse from Easy

*2015.0618 19:10 Fixed problem with starting game and not explicitly choosing a difficulty.

*2015.0618 23:38 EASY: moved tanks from Science to Utility. Changed the name of the gas compressor

*2015.0619 10:06 HARD: removed legacy BioReactor module. Renamed the buttons Start/Stop H2 Rxn, Start/Stop KH4+O2 Rxn

*2015.0619 10:35 Misc tweaks to BioReactor. Fixed animations. HARD: increased rate of Bioreactor. Now yields 0.24L liquidFuel/day. MEDIUM: Fixed Easy BioReactor(wasn't mass balanced), increased rate of Bioreactor. Now yields 0.41L liquidFuel/day. EASY: increased rate of Bioreactor. Now yields 0.72L liquidFuel/day. Medium and Hard need water for everything to work.

*2015.0619 12:28 Increased compressor release rates for Medium and Hard by factor of 10, except for Hydrogen. Left that as-is.

*2015.0619 14:18 HARD and MEDIUM: Simplified the BioCake+Kethane gas rxns

*2015.0622 Fixed popup window problem. Reported by Lachlan (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/125880-WIP-BioMass-mod-needs-testers-%28greenhouses-gas-compressors-biofuel-production%29?p=2032459&viewfull=1#post2032459)

*2015.0624 Somehow lost edits to BioReactor from 2015.0619. Hard BioReactor is fixed again. Minor testing of the MicroBiome. Set the modules (except the water valve) to be always working.

Edited by seanth

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So happy to see this mod still in development. Was one of my first ever mods that I played. I will gladly look at this as time allows.

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I wonder if new release will use realistic (and CRP-compatible) resources and conversion rates thus being compatible with RealISRU and RealFuels?

The new version, when played on the hardest level, uses realistic conversion rates. I personally don't play with the Real* mods, but I would be happy to work with you to provide a moduleManager file that would make it compatible with the Real* mods.

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Trying it out. First thing I notice is I get a big popup that asks if I want to add biomass to the tech tree. When I click 'yes,' I get a message that it failed to add.

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The new version, when played on the hardest level, uses realistic conversion rates. I personally don't play with the Real* mods, but I would be happy to work with you to provide a moduleManager file that would make it compatible with the Real* mods.

Glad to hear that. Will contact you when we'll finish the basics and get to the BLSS stage of RealISRU.

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Trying it out. First thing I notice is I get a big popup that asks if I want to add biomass to the tech tree. When I click 'yes,' I get a message that it failed to add.

K thanx.. looking into this.

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Huh. We thought we got rid of that. Originally we had the ability to optionally add a Biology branch to the tech tree, but ended up rolling that option into whether the player choose Classic (uses normal tech tree) or Easy and higher (uses the new Biology tech tree). It errors because the file is now a part of the difficult level files.

Roboto is on the case and is building a new dll that should fix that problem. We missed it because we had been testing in pre-made save games. Hang tight for a new test version

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Trying it out. First thing I notice is I get a big popup that asks if I want to add biomass to the tech tree. When I click 'yes,' I get a message that it failed to add.

Ok, this has been addressed. The option to add should not have been there anymore. The tech tree parts are added when choosing difficulty level.

I removed it.

Thanks!

Edited by Roboto

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Huh. We thought we got rid of that. Originally we had the ability to optionally add a Biology branch to the tech tree, but ended up rolling that option into whether the player choose Classic (uses normal tech tree) or Easy and higher (uses the new Biology tech tree). It errors because the file is now a part of the difficult level files.

Roboto is on the case and is building a new dll that should fix that problem. We missed it because we had been testing in pre-made save games. Hang tight for a new test version

EDIT: The fix is in the release link from the OP, now.

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It looks as if the bio containment study is supposed to have nodes at both ends; however, the 'bottom' node doesn't seem to be able to mate up with anything.

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It's not clear to me where the greenhouses are in the tech tree. I've searched all over, but I can't find them anywhere.

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Hello,

After a long time I am back more or less...

I wont be able to test this directly if you recall I dont use the difficulty cfg files as I needed to MOD my own BIOMASS modules and functionality.

I have to reintegrate everything and may check this out but I cant garrantee; I will probly stay with my own modules.

That said...there may, or I may still have module functionality and compatibility issues so it will be a good while before I get back here...

cmdr zeta

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Hello,

After a long time I am back more or less...

I wont be able to test this directly if you recall I dont use the difficulty cfg files as I needed to MOD my own BIOMASS modules and functionality.

I have to reintegrate everything and may check this out but I cant garrantee; I will probly stay with my own modules.

That said...there may, or I may still have module functionality and compatibility issues so it will be a good while before I get back here...

cmdr zeta

Well, if you ever care to share your configurations, I'd certainly be interested to see.

- - - Updated - - -

It looks as if the bio containment study is supposed to have nodes at both ends; however, the 'bottom' node doesn't seem to be able to mate up with anything.

The science experiments are definitely "unfinished". We've been focusing on other aspects first. We're open to having some help though :)

- - - Updated - - -

It's not clear to me where the greenhouses are in the tech tree. I've searched all over, but I can't find them anywhere.

It depends what difficulty level you are playing on

Classic: Yellow: largeElectrics; Red: largeElectrics; Blue: largeElectrics; Algae: not applicable; Expanding: not applicable

Easy: Yellow: spaceAg; Red: bioSystems; Blue: spaceAg; Algae: not applicable; Expanding: not applicable

Medium: Yellow: bioSciences; Red: bioSystems; Blue: spaceAg; Algae: bioFuels ; Expanding: astroBiology

Hard: Yellow: bioSciences; Red: bioSystems; Blue: spaceAg; Algae: bioFuels ; Expanding: astroBiology

- - - Updated - - -

New update planned fore tomorrow improving Cryogenic Atmospheric Extractor and a few other tweaks (like including a radial mounting oxidizer tank on Medium and Hard)

Edited by seanth

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Been slowly refining BioMass as I have time as a part of a ISRU test run (growing food in space is definitely a ISRU issue).

Latest changes:

###2015.0919 Fixed the volumes held by the food and seed storage containers. MUCH more storage now. Also fixed the left and right nodes on the food and seed storage containers

###2015.0901 Added "wrapper tanks" to hold water. Useful for protecting crew from radiation. :)

###2015.0818 Pull requests merged (punctuation changes). Additional changes related to punctuation. Rest the hydrogen gas compressor to ~9877:1 MonoProp:H2Gas.

###2015.0805 Updated Alternate Resource Icons. Included a radial oxidizer tank on Medium and Hard. Included gas storage bags (based on roverdude's landing bags). This allows things to function on rails when not selected by providing places for gasses to actually be. Will only be in medium and hard. LiquidCO2 changed to LqdCO2 to comply with community resource pack. The Atmospheric extractor works on Kerbin and Duna (though there is a rate bug on the KSP side, I think).

###2015.0704 Tweaked aspects of how the compressors work. Added a new part: gas bleed valve for venting excess gas to the atmosphere (or wherever). It's meant to be used on the surface of planets during ISRU stuff. Added Alternate Resource Panel icons back in. Not sure how we lost them.

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Hello Everyone!

I really would like to have this mod in my KSP...so here are my test results.

First off all: I could not downloaded the mod via "ckan".

 

KSP-Configuration:

1) Clean KSP-v1.0.4

2) BioMass-Mod: "KSP 1.0.4 compatible TESTER VERSION"

3) No other mods!

 

KSP-Settings:

"Normal" and "Sandbox"

 

These are my experiences so far:

The module-manager tells me that there are 30 modules changed...so lets find them^^

 

After the fist start I clicked the new BioMass-icons which tells me that the BioMass-settings are on "masochist". So fist I changed that to "easy" and reloaded the data base with "alt+F11".

 

1 (!): If I reload the database I see, sometimes, an gigantic red wheel turning over the horizon. No idea what that is. This red wheel stays also after the data bank was reloaded.

g62zo2va.png

 

 

 

BioMass-mode: Easy

I first went into the space plane hangar so couple all the new modules.

2 (!): No BioMass-icon in the "advanced mode" of the modules.

First modules found in the "Utility-section".

*) Mk1-2 Command Pod:

  1. BioMess Test Fuel Tank I
  2. BioMess Test Fuel Tank II
  3. Bioreactor
  4. Gas Compressor
  5. Greenhouse: BioMass
  6. Greenhouse: Food
  7. Greenhouse: Oxygen
  8. MicroBiome Module
  9. Snack Container
  10. Snack Container: Flat
  11. Snack Container: Triple Size
  12. Supply Tank: Compressed CO2, Long
  13. Supply Tank: Compressed CO2, Round
  14. Supply Tank: H2O
  15. Supply Tank: O2, Long
  16. Supply Tank: O2, Round

More modules found in the "science-section".

  1. Bio Containment Study
  2. Biological Systems Study
  3. EBC-1

All modules clipped well in the assembly hangar.

 

Real-Life-Test:

If I open the resource monitor also those resources pop up they can not produced in the easy mode. That was very confusing at the beginning and I tryed some hours to find out where I can produce seeds or biocake and so on^^

nm7toh3c.png 

Greenhouse: BioMass; Greenhouse: Food; Greenhouse: Oxygen:

3 (!): Here I found two times the options "extend panels". I could not fount out what the differences are between those two "extend panels-options".

l5e3l939.jpg

 

4 (!): If I do not extend the panels but switch on the lights than I have "light: 1" in the Greenhouse BioMass and Greenhouse Food but not in the Greenhouse Oxygen (even if there is the a light effect during the night).

sdx6hns9.jpg

 

5 (!): If I turn on the lights on the ECB-1-sicence module these have no effects.

6 (!): If you run out of electricity the light (the shiny effects) are still "on".

z5zameup.jpg

 

7 (!): If I exit the hangar the "BioMass Difficulty Setting Swith" always jumps to "Masochist" but the big red wheel disappears^^

skno4tly.jpg

 

 

BioMass-mode: Classic (reload dadabase with "alt+F11):

First modules found in the "Utility-section".

*) Mk1-2 Command Pod:

  1. BioMass Station Hub
  2. BioMass Station Hub (same name but whit Kethane)
  3. BioMess Test Fuel Tank I
  4. BioMess Test Fuel Tank II

No more modules here...I found ALL other modules in the "Science-section".

  1. Bio Containment Study
  2. Biological Systems Study
  3. Bioreactor
  4. CO2-Supply tank (40 Units)
  5. CO2-Supply tank (same name but 80 units, even if this one is smaler!)
  6. EBC-1
  7. Gas Compressor
  8. Greenhouse: BioMass
  9. Greenhouse: Food
  10. Greenhouse: Oxygen
  11. H2O Supply Tank
  12. MicroBiome Module
  13. Oxygen Supply Tank (40 Units)
  14. Oxygen Supply Tank (same name but 80 units, even if this one is smaler!)

 

8 (!): So in the name of the tanks differ from the easy mode, the units are not correct, the modules are not in the correct section (science), the clipping of the Station Hubs are not working (especially the top and bottom node).

bnr6ebdw.jpg

 

Real-Life-Test:

If I open the resource monitor also those resources pop up they can not produced in the easy mode.

Greenhouse: BioMass; Greenhouse: Food; Greenhouse: Oxygen:

9 (!): Here I found two times the options "lights: on". I could not fount out what the differences are and there was no option "extend panels".

iwcvyy6u.jpg

 

Greenhouse: BioMass:

10 (!): If I switch on the "first" light button the menu says "artificial lights 100%" but has no "real" effect. Lights still on 0.

9hkuhdve.jpg

 

11 (!): If I switch on the "second" light button the menu says "artificial lights 100%" but has no "real" effect. Lights still on 0. Even I found some line twice in the menu.

If I switch on both light buttons the menu says "artificial lights 100%" but has no "real" effect. Lights still on 0.

6ulrnjaa.jpg

 

BioMass Station Hub, BioMass Station Hub (same name but whit Kethane): I just can find an option "Toggle"...but the only thing this option do is to turn on some lights...even if there is a status line: locked.

 uvdofi9s.jpg

 

 

BioMass-mode: Moderate (reloaded the database and again the big red wheel)

 First modules found in the "Utility-section".

 *) Mk1-2 Command Pod:

  1. BioMess Test Fuel Tank I
  2. BioMess Test Fuel Tank II
  3. Bioreactor
  4. Cryogenic Atmospheric Separator-L
  5. Cryogenic Atmospheric Separator-R
  6. Gas Compressor: Carbon Dioxide
  7. Gas Compressor: Hydrogen
  8. Gas Compressor: Kethane
  9. Gas Compressor: Oxygen
  10. Gas release value
  11. Greenhouse
  12. Greenhouse: Aquatic
  13. Greenhouse: Expand-O-Matic (the "top side" is on the "left side".)
  14. Greenhouse: Experimental
  15. Greenhouse: Experimental, mk.2 (but has the same size than the Greenhouse: Experimental)
  16. Inflatable Gas Storage (Large) (has no attachment node on the "rear end")
  17. Inflatable Gas Storage (Medium)
  18. Inflatable Gas Storage (Small)
  19. Kylent Maker
  20. MicroBiome Module
  21. Seed Bank
  22. Snack Container
  23. Snack Container: Flat
  24. Snack Container: Triple Size
  25. Supply Tank: Compressed CO2, Long
  26. Supply Tank: Compressed CO2, Round
  27. Supply Tank: H2O
  28. Supply Tank: O2, Long
  29. Supply Tank: O2, Round

I found the last module in the "science-section".

  1. EBC-1

 

Real-Life test:

 Greenhouse: Aquatic

12 (!): There are two "light: on" options...but only one lights counts...not more than "lights: 1" possible.

sup2mm9y.jpg

 

Greenhouse: Expand-O-Matic

13 (!): it is nearly impossible to read all lines in the drop down menu.

ceixdu9n.jpg

 

 

cgi2lu4w.jpg

 

14 (!): two "lights: on" options with no plus effect. Not more than "lights: 1" possible.

 

Even if I start all processes and turn on all lights the module does not extract like on your advertisement photo which is just beautiful!

Your Mod-Homepage:

rbkezhfk.jpg

 

Reality:

7gexrla2.jpg

 

Greenhouse: Experimental

15 (!): has no "lights: on" option like the Greenhouse: Experimental, mk.2 has.

 Greenhouse: Experimental, mk.2

16 (!): has two times the options "extend panels". I could not fount out what the differences are between those two "extend panels-options".

giuc5or2.jpg

 

So the most menus here have way to much lines. What is the worth of an information if I can not read it?

 

BioMass-mode: Masochist (reloaded the database with "alt+F11)

First modules found in the "Utility-section".

 *) Mk1-2 Command Pod:

  1. BioMess Test Fuel Tank I
  2. BioMess Test Fuel Tank II
  3. Bioreactor
  4. Cryogenic Atmospheric Separator-L
  5. Cryogenic Atmospheric Separator-R
  6. Gas Compressor: Carbon Dioxide
  7. Gas Compressor: Hydrogen
  8. Gas Compressor: Kethane
  9. Gas Compressor: Oxygen
  10. Gas release value
  11. Greenhouse
  12. Greenhouse: Aquatic
  13. Greenhouse: Expand-O-Matic (the "top side" is on the "left side".)
  14. Greenhouse: Experimental (wrong size)
  15. Greenhouse: Experimental, mk.2 (but has the same size than the Greenhouse: Experimental)
  16. Inflatable Gas Storage (Large) (has no attachment node on the "rear end")
  17. Inflatable Gas Storage (Medium)
  18. Inflatable Gas Storage (Small)
  19. Kylent Maker
  20. MicroBiome Module
  21. Seed Bank
  22. Snack Container
  23. Snack Container: Flat
  24. Snack Container: Triple Size
  25. Supply Tank: Compressed CO2, Long
  26. Supply Tank: Compressed CO2, Round
  27. Supply Tank: H2O
  28. Supply Tank: O2, Long
  29. Supply Tank: O2, Round

I found the last module in the "science-section".

  1. EBC-1

 

Real-Life test (for photo see above):

17 (!): So, what is the difference between the mode "Moderate" and "Masochist"? Why do we have here less science modules?

Greenhouse: Aquatic

18 (!): There are two "light: on" options...but only one lights counts...not more than "lights: 1" possible.

Greenhouse: Expand-O-Matic

19 (!): it is nearly impossible to read all lines in the pop down menu.

20 (!): two "lights: on" options with no plus effect. Not more than "lights: 1" possible.

Greenhouse: Experimental

21 (!): has no "lights: on" option like the Greenhouse: Experimental, mk.2 has.

Greenhouse: Experimental, mk.2

22 (!): has two times the options "extend panels". I could not fount out what the differences are between those two "extend panels-options".

 So the most menus here have way to much lines. What is the worth of an information if I can not read it?

 

Miscellaneous:

Switch from "Masochist" mode to "Easy": Now I have still some modules on my "experimental construction which are normally not in the Easy-mode.

Sometimes the  Greenhouse: Expand-O-Matic has no texture and is just white...white over white.

2zf5pran.jpg 

 

 

So please fix this because your mode is awesome!

Edited by WolfS

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13 hours ago, WolfS said:

Hello Everyone!

I really would like to have this mod in my KSP...so here are my test results.

Holy testing!

It'll take a bit to digest everything you have there. I'll rope Roberto in on this, too.

A few notes: 1.) I don't use ckan, but I'll see if we can get it setup for use with ckan. 2.) It looks like I must have made a mistake and put a "debug" version of the mod in the wild. You shouldn't be seeing so many buttons in the menus. 

Update soon hopefully

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21 hours ago, WolfS said:

 

Dude, this is great thanks so much. We get to work on this asap

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On 12/16/2015, 8:38:47, WolfS said:

Real-Life-Test:

If I open the resource monitor also those resources pop up they can not produced in the easy mode. That was very confusing at the beginning and I tryed some hours to find out where I can produce seeds or biocake and so on^^

This is a long term problem we've been having. We have the start of some tutorials up on the wiki, and try to give hiints on how things interconnect, but it's still not transparent. The idea is to have the science parts act as in-game tutorials that slowly introduce each aspect of the systems: photosynthesis/respiration/growth/seed production, conversion of seeds and biomass into food, conversion of basically anything with carbon into fuel, waste break down. We just haven't gotten as far as polishing the science experiments since we (I) have been focused on trying to get the biology right.

Turns out it's hard to simulate plant growth in KSP.

Any suggestions on how to best get players to learn how the systems interconnect?

Oh, I should add I took all your comments and put them in as github issues.

Edited by seanth

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A correct tech tree progression will help a lot, with some useful part description. Also some craft ready with everything needed will be very useful to learn the mod.

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19 hours ago, Nansuchao said:

A correct tech tree progression will help a lot, with some useful part description. Also some craft ready with everything needed will be very useful to learn the mod.

A few ready-made craft is a good idea. Are you willing to explain further about a correct tech tree progression? We put a bit of thought into the tech tree progression for Hard. Do you disagree with how things are introduced and their descriptions?

 

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@ seanth and Roboto

I have to say "thank you"...your work is just great and awesome! I would not be able to make a popup screen saying "Hello World" in this game^^

 

ckan is just a "nice to have"...at the beginning I also was not really convinced if this is a good thing or not...but now I find ckan very convenient because it is really very handy for finding and installing some mods.

 

"Any suggestions on how to best get players to learn how the systems interconnect?"

That is a great question^^ I just can tell you what would had helped me at the beginning.

 

First of all I think gamers installing such an mod are willing to gather some information also without any tutorials. Otherwise I would install just another life support mod with just two resources or similar. Your mod is for sure for gamers which loves challenges.

So there are two ways for supporting gamers at the beginning.

 

1) Just make a simple popup screen at the beginning (witch a check box "show hint again"). There you describe just in a very simple way what to do. Like:

 

On the difficulty level "Easy" a Kerbal needs 1 units of oxygen (I do not know how much they really needs), at lest 0,7 units of water and 1 units of food to survive a single day. So for this you must find the right modules producing the needed resources. Be aware all modules need other resources to function well.

 

Attention: The amount of the different resources which you can produce depends on the difficulty level of BioMass.

Easy: Oxygen, CO2, Water, Food...

Classic: ...

Moderate: ...

Masochist: ...

 

2) For more information visit our homepage.

(And there you can put some diagrams showing how all the modules works together. Just KISS)

 

For me you should actual not focus on the way to present the information but on the "internal" functions of the mod.

Also just for me speaking it would just be perfect if you point out all the produced units of the resources in just one measurement systems ..e.g. Units/second. That would be great.

And also, even if this is not your business, it would be great if I could read in this popup screen the resources a Kerbal does really need per day.

 

@Animation of growing plants in the Greenhouse: Expand-O-Matic

Maybe I was not that clear. I do not really care about the animation of a growing plant. I just would be happy if the module itself just extend the panels and shine in the night^^ My ships will look that awesome with your great and shiny modules.

 

 

I am just waiting on the edge of my chair for the next update of your mod to test the hell out of it :-D

 

Your mod will be soooo awesome to create my generation ship^^

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16 hours ago, seanth said:

A few ready-made craft is a good idea. Are you willing to explain further about a correct tech tree progression? We put a bit of thought into the tech tree progression for Hard. Do you disagree with how things are introduced and their descriptions?

 

I don't disagree at all, I'm following this mod cause I think it's an incredible good idea, it was just a suggestion.

Talking about the correct tech tree progression, I meant to gradually obtain the parts in a way that the player can begin with something small and useful, and step by step reach the full understanding of the mod.

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I'm going to be pretty busy until after winter solstice, but after that I'm going to look closely at things that have been reported as bugs. I'll make sure I post update links to fixed releases here.

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On 12/17/2015 at 9:09 AM, seanth said:

Any suggestions on how to best get players to learn how the systems interconnect?

A contract pack for Contract Configurator would be helpful. I like contract packs for this purpose; they give you enough guidance so you're not flailing around like a madman, but they don't hold your hand.

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