What will KSP's future be? (Warning: Flames Ahead)

[r4pt0r]

Why are people acting as if KSP can only be single player or multiplayer, but not both?

Are we even thinking of the same thing? We're talking about a game here, people - a game with modes, that you can select. Push one button, you get single player; push a different button and you get multiplayer.

If you want to play single player only, then play single player only. No one is going to force you to play multiplayer just because it suddenly becomes an option.

In fact, KSP is already multiplayer - with DMP. And when you install DMP, the single-player mode of KSP doesn't magically disappear. That'd just be silly.

right but the people here have different ideas on how squad resources should be spent. instead of wasting time making the MP gamemode, improve the base game. code some clouds, give us more things to do on the surface of planets(I always post this), improve the games sound quality to chatterer levels(airlock noises, breathing on eva, ect...). alot of us think there are more important things than adding MP.

[dsonbill]

right but the people here have different ideas on how squad resources should be spent. instead of wasting time making the MP gamemode, improve the base game. code some clouds, give us more things to do on the surface of planets(I always post this), improve the games sound quality to chatterer levels(airlock noises, breathing on eva, ect...). alot of us think there are more important things than adding MP.

An Example

You: "Hey, you should work on this part of XThing instead of that part of XThing. I think it would be a much better use of your time."

Them: "Actually, I'm really freaking tired of *all* of XThing apart from this new bit. XThing is nearing market saturation, and the accounting person is yelling at us because we're exhausting all the funding raised from early access still dev'ing this game, so if you don't appreciate what I'm doing right now, I think it would be a much better use of my time to forget about this project entirely and move on to something both more capitalizing for the company and more mentally stimulating for the programmers."

A Summary

Be happy they're even saying that they're putting effort into it. The facts above are totally inferred and/or made-up, but the idea that such a very, very realistic situation could in fact be the truth should help you understand how incredibly arrogant and rude your position on this topic comes off as to many of us.

[basic.syntax]

Some form of Stock MP is going to happen, as a game mode alongside SP. It was revealed in May 30 SQ that HarvesteR would be spending more of his time on MP after 1.0.3 is done, and Mu would spend most of his time on core game features, of which he has already spent time coding for the new GUI system for KSP on U5. The entire team moves toward U5 work, after 1.0.3.

I think r4pt0r will get his wish for more sounds; I'm just saying that in general, we don't know what sounds Squad might create or license. HavesteR said in a devnote, that he was happy he didn't spend much time on sounds for 1.0, because the audio tools in U5 are so much better.

[r4pt0r]

Hey man, great summary. I'll pm you when I care . Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. We have different ones, so be it.

Some form of Stock MP is going to happen, as a game mode alongside SP. It was revealed in May 30 SQ that HarvesteR would be spending more of his time on MP after 1.0.3 is done, and Mu would spend most of his time on core game features, of which he has already spent time coding for the new GUI system for KSP on U5. The entire team moves toward U5 work, after 1.0.3.

I think r4pt0r will get his wish for more sounds; I'm just saying that in general, we don't know what sounds Squad might create or license. HavesteR said in a devnote, that he was happy he didn't spend much time on sounds for 1.0, because the audio tools in U5 are so much better.

That is most interesting. I've heard alot about how U5 will literally be a game changer, cant wait to see how it goes down.

Edited June 21, 2015 by r4pt0r

[dsonbill]

Hey man, great summary. I'll pm you when I care . Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. We have different ones, so be it.

And Squad obviously has an opinion that differs from yours, but you feel the need to so very swiftly tell them where they are wrong. But I suppose that's to be expected, with you being a major video game developer and all, having developed several AAA... oh wait...

Well, I guess it's ok, since you're at least a programmer and have made a few mods of your own for the.... dang, sorry - did it again.

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and entitlement is a very bad reason to do something. Saying you are entitled to a thought is the same as saying "at the very least, it's not illegal for me to think this".

[OddFunction]

<snip>

This post came off much ruder and more arrogant than r4ptors did. I thought he had a fair criticism.

As for the future of KSP... I don't really understand how multiplayer will work. I think it will be one of those perpetually-delayed features, though I would love to be proven wrong.

As for the other developments... I see no reason why Unity 5 won't be awesome in every imaginable way. Performance wise, graphics wise, everything should be a lot better. It's exciting to think about. As for the bugs... I don't think 1.0.3 or 1.0.4 will squash them. I don't even know if some of the 'krakens' can be fixed even with Unity 5... but we shall see.

The biggest question for KSP, imo, is the release date of the Unity 5 upgrade. Everything else is dependant on that

[r4pt0r]

I never claimed to be right, opinions are by definition subjective. I just don't call people "incredibly arrogant and rude" just because I happen to disagree with them, buddy

plenty of people here also think a 2 week vacation while there is a critical memory leak in the software would be wrong, but hey, to each their own.

[kiwi1960]

It matters not what happens in the future, UNLESS..... unless squad does something really silly like remove the ability for modders to add "goodies" to the game, which in my opinion, will never happen and I'll tell you why...

Squad listens to the community. I have noticed that for the most part, they really care what the end user thinks. Its been like that since day one. Its what makes them special, in the eyes of the community. They have told us their dream, and taken us along for the ride, what is more, we have all become part of that dream. We share it. When I first found this game way back with version 0.18, it was like all my fantasies for the ultimate game came true, in fact, they have turned a mere game into an adventure... we now share the common dream...

For that reason, if people want this, or that... then sooner or later, time permitting, it will be added... maybe even... aliens!

My dream, a side dream really, is for Squad to add DLC material to the game, such as, a worm hole to a new solar system... or hell, maybe an online version where we all inhabit the same planet and have competing space programs (sort of like multi player but not with 8 or so others, but thousands....) ... a dedicated server for this... maybe even multi planets with a few hundred people per planet which leads the way open for intergalactic war maybe.... BUT... I know the chances of that are virtually non existent.

My point remains... Squad had a dream, we also now share that dream, so if the community wants it, they will do their best to give it... as long as its feasible and not over the top.... this is what happens when everyone shares the same dream.

So, as for multi player... maybe it will happen... but right now, they are trying to get the game over to U5 which is more important than any thing we may want right now.

Sorry to say, this thread is pointless in that regard... but keep dreaming... inspire others and maybe it will happen one day.

I'm just glad the game is where its at right now, I am happy with what I have.

[dsonbill]

I thought he had a fair criticism.

Im with you there. I have fun when my friend brings his computer over and we play alone, together. He plays his save, I play mine. I dont see the appeal of co-op for KSP.

Yup, seems like fair criticism to me! Totally not biased at all!

I never claimed to be right, opinions are by definition subjective. I just don't call people "incredibly arrogant and rude" just because I happen to disagree with them, buddy

And I don't claim the other person said something simply because they disagree with them, or say I don't see the appeal in something as if it's a good reason not to do something.

I didn't say that because I disagree with you - I partly do. Anyone who's been in #DMP know's I've voiced my opinion on how lacking core KSP gameplay is (hint: there pretty much is none unless you count flying around aimlessly). I said it because you think you know the best way for someone else to spend their time on their project that they're making the way they want to, which is something I do disagree with.

Thinking something is sucky is a respectable opinion. Thinking something would make something cooler is a respectable opinion.

Thinking someone else should spend their time the way you want them to because you don't like what they're doing with their day is another thing entirely.

plenty of people here also think a 2 week vacation while there is a critical memory leak in the software would be wrong, but hey, to each their own.

Oh, so I guess we're talking about life-saving, mission-critical software here? Like, if they don't fix it in those two weeks, thousands upon thousands will die, right?

Wait, it's a video game? You mean you're complaining about 2 weeks of vacation over a memory leak in a program that you can avoid simply by not double-clicking it?

How dare those people take a 2 week break after slaving away at writing this game, when there is a critical memory leak!

Edited June 21, 2015 by dsonbill

[r4pt0r]

I said it because you think you know the best way for someone else to , which is something I do disagree with.

So when the community blew up because Squad decided to spend their time on their project that they're making the way they want to, and tried to change the round-8 tank , is everyone who went against them "Arrogant and rude"?

And yes, I hold finished products to high standards. Nice hyperbole though, I enjoyed the dramatization.

I am quite finished derailing this thread. You should move on too.

[godarklight]

I for one would actually like to see the barn come back.

...

[dsonbill]

So when the community blew up because Squad decided to spend their time on their project that they're making the way they want to, and tried to change the round-8 tank , is everyone who went against them "Arrogant and rude"?

Sorry, I guess I wasn't being very clear:

YES.

Let me put it to you this way: the barn that godarklight is talking about? I freaking hate it. I HATE IT. But if that's what Squad wants to put into the game, I'm not about to destroy the joy they derive from doing so by trying to rally people into complaining till they do what I want.

PS4 version? I think that's a flipping terrible idea; mods make this game what it is today. PS4 version will absolutely not support mods. But am I gonna rally people into complaining to Squad till they cancel the PS4 version? No, I'm not going to do that. I'm also not going to complain about how I think the money they spend on the port would be better spent on getting me a new coffee pot.

[r4pt0r]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't being very clear:

YES.

Let me put it to you this way: the barn that godarklight is talking about? I freaking hate it. I HATE IT. But if that's what Squad wants to put into the game, I'm not about to destroy the joy they derive from doing so by trying to rally people into complaining till they do what I want.

PS4 version? I think that's a flipping terrible idea; mods make this game what it is today. PS4 version will absolutely not support mods. But am I gonna rally people into complaining to Squad till they cancel the PS4 version? No, I'm not going to do that. I'm also not going to complain about how I think the money they spend on the port would be better spent on getting me a new coffee pot.

Ok well the community as a whole(forums, reddit, ect...) is here to provide feedback, that incidentally is the explicit purpose of the "suggestions and development discussion" board. Censoring yourself doesn't help anyone. The barn was originally pulled after a 29 page thread here as well. Our feedback has helped shape the game. Squad created the forums as another place for that feedback.

also interesting is Bac9's(a former dev) critique of the barn as it was, viewable here: http://i.imgur.com/onpH9fp.jpg

Oh and to call everyone in that round-8 thread "arrogant and rude" is disgusting. I have no further words for you if you are going to be a massive jerk to about a majority of the members here.

Edited June 21, 2015 by r4pt0r

[dsonbill]

Oh and to call everyone in that round-8 thread "arrogant and rude" is disgusting. I have no further words for you if you are going to be a massive jerk to about a majority of the members here.

I didn't realize 372 people made up a majority of the 146,052 members of the forums.

"suggestions and development discussion" board

Note the title of said forum. Everyone is here to suggest and discuss things they think would help the game or make it more enjoyable, not to start striking until Squad does what they want.

There's always room for making these suggestions and discussing them amongst each other - this will hopefully not only get the best out of the product, but everyone's viewpoints have a chance of integrating everyone else's. When people start mobbing up like with Bac9/RoninPawn (RoninPawn straight up did this, and Bac9 at least unintentionally did) and the Round-8 thread, you shift from making suggestions to being part of a mob making a demand - there's no room for common ground, further understanding, viewpoint integration, or compromise. There's only room for picking teams, arguing with bad logic, and getting what you want without regard or respect for anyone else involved.

[TransSister]

I didn't realize 372 people made up a majority of the 146,052 members of the forums.

Note the title of said forum. Everyone is here to suggest and discuss things they think would help the game or make it more enjoyable, not to start striking until Squad does what they want.

There's always room for making these suggestions and discussing them amongst each other - this will hopefully not only get the best out of the product, but everyone's viewpoints have a chance of integrating everyone else's. When people start mobbing up like with Bac9/RoninPawn (RoninPawn straight up did this, and Bac9 at least unintentionally did) and the Round-8 thread, you shift from making suggestions to being part of a mob making a demand - there's no room for common ground, further understanding, viewpoint integration, or compromise. There's only room for picking teams, arguing with bad logic, and getting what you want without regard or respect for anyone else involved.

Even if his numbers were off, did you see the dozens of 'active' (I say active because there are not 150k people that are active here) forum members with "SAVE THE ROUND-8" avatars and sigs? And are you really defending calling 372 people arrogant and rude? I happen to fall in that crowd and I resent that.

And yes, if squad decides to do something stupid then the community can rally against it. If you hate that barn, voice your opinion on it, dont hold your tongue. The round-8 movement was unifying for alot of the community.

If Squad decides tomorrow to make KSP unmoddable you really just going to take it? Thats absurd. You are allowed to state your opinions here, and enough opinions can form a force for change, to bring us all a better game.

[dsonbill]

And yes, if squad decides to do something stupid then the community can rally against it. If you hate that barn, voice your opinion on it, dont hold your tongue

Saying that you can do something doesn't mean that you should. You can rob a bank. You can pirate KSP. You can stop eating forever. You can go to the sun. You can commit acts of terrorism in your country.

Again, if I wasn't clear before:

Having common decency. Respecting the people that made the thing you are playing today, who put their entire time into it only to have a mob of people decide that they can't make the game they want to, because BASHFLAJKHDG I HAET BARRN BURNNN BRN DOOOOWN GJHWOIEGHJOWEHGOI:WHgo LUK @ AL MY SUPRRTRS U MST OBY ME SQUAD.

If Squad decides tomorrow to make KSP unmoddable you really just going to take it? Thats absurd. You are allowed to state your opinions here, and enough opinions can form a force for change, to bring us all a better game.

Yes, I may state my opinion. Probably not here, mind you, but I would. I'd note how I think it's a stupid choice, etc etc. But I would NOT try to make a mob to get my way with their game! If anything, it would drive me to make my own space game with a proper mod API. KSP doesn't even do this, and programming advanced features is already a serious PITA.

Edited June 21, 2015 by DuoDex

[technicalfool]

Ohey, this is a comfy looking threa....

Oh god.

You know what's coming next, don't you?

[kiwi1960]

BrInG BaCk tHe bArN!

I agree, I forgot all about that! Its more realistic than what is currently there. Before NASA, they had bugger all in the way of anything...

Their radar was housed in a truck, cameras (with men using them) were on top of caravans... yes, bring back the barn.

[klgraham1013]

And Squad obviously has an opinion that differs from yours, but you feel the need to so very swiftly tell them where they are wrong. But I suppose that's to be expected, with you being a major video game developer and all, having developed several AAA... oh wait...

Well, I guess it's ok, since you're at least a programmer and have made a few mods of your own for the.... dang, sorry - did it again.

Surely, it's impossible for someone outside of an industry to have a legitimate opinion on that said industries product.

[Bekiekutmoar]

.

I think you fail to understand the basic mechanics of an online message board.

[godarklight]

I'd like to apoligise for attempting to derail the thread with the barn, I was only joking (although I did prefer the character of the barn to the drabness of T1 KSC). In either case I believe the models could have been better though

In all seriousness, multiplayer can be an amazing thing. Building a space station together via player-player docking, taking a completely new player to your gilly base to muck around with rcs orbiters, landing on the moon together, and visiting the KSC2 in a convoy of planes are all absolutely magical experiences that are missing from the stock game.

However, I support whatever direction squad wants to take. There's been far too much hatred in this community lately and I've never quite understood why. Let squad do what they want to do - the modders will pick up the slack if they think somethings missing.

Well, at least the active modders :-/.

[dsonbill]

I think you fail to understand the basic mechanics of an online message board.

The basic mechanic of an online message board is to strike against game developers, rally against them to get what you want instead of doing it in a suggestive and peaceful, discussion-welcoming manner?

Surely, it's impossible for someone outside of an industry to have a legitimate opinion on that said industries product.

Surely, it's impossible for someone within an industry to think an opinion is silly based on the factors of prior experience with the subject, and the knowledge that the person with said opinion has no experience with the implications and implementation of what they are suggesting.

Edited June 21, 2015 by dsonbill

[r4pt0r]

The basic mechanic of an online message board is to strike against game developers, rally against them to get what you want instead of doing it in a suggestive and peaceful, discussion-welcoming manner?

Surely, it's impossible for someone within an industry to think an opinion is silly based on the factors of prior experience with the subject, and the knowledge that the person with said opinion has no experience with the implications and implementation of what they are suggesting.

You just won't get it. The community here is amazing and has directly influenced the game. Squad responds to community feedback and that has set then apart from some other devs. That leads to customer satisfaction and more sales. I've bought more than one copy, and I knew others here have too.

Edited June 21, 2015 by r4pt0r

[DuoDex]

Well, the insults are already flying by page 5.

Please keep the tone of this thread constructive and on topic. It's a very interesting discussion that needs not be clogged with vitriol.

[RAINCRAFTER]

Well, the insults are already flying by page 5.

Please keep the tone of this thread constructive and on topic. It's a very interesting discussion that needs not be clogged with vitriol.

Good God, that escalated quickly! I want the barn back and I hate how it's still not in 1.0, but to de-rail this thread to talk about it? I... I have no words. I know it was a a joke but... man.

And insults too! Oh my god.

Edited June 21, 2015 by RAINCRAFTER