What's With The Hate?

[322997am]

Hey community you are bringing down the spirits of squad with these hate posts. Then if you want the game to be better then ASK the devs not YELL at them for what you want goddammit haters. And the arrogance of modders is annoying everyone. The forum went from being a good idea exchange to a complaint poster. I almost want to delete my account you haters. If you hate the game then don't write on the forum and delete the game

[Nigeth]

How far we've come that people can now be called 'haters', just for expecting a game they've paid €40 for and that was officially released to be somewhat finished and to not break their save games.

[Megan]

Some of the modders have a right to be arrogant. Y'know the movie trope about the kid who "hacks" the DoD with five keystrokes? If they told me the kid was Ferram, I'd buy it.

Wouldn't even raise a brow.

As for the rest of... eh yeah okay no. But y'all have a grand day.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Megan

[hellion13]

I have no way to check this since Squad doesn't post sales figures (with good reason). But I believe a lot of the hate comes with the deluge of new players to the community with the .90-1.0.4 releases and the advertising that went with it.

Before .90 the community was the same as always. Then it seems that within 6 months we had 2 high profile releases with 1.0 and 1.0.3/4. That brought everybody back to the forums, or caused them to join the forums.

Its not there is hate towards the devs, its just more people here to complain when a bug is found. Shoddy releases not withstanding.

[IggyHitokage]

I don't want to sound ungrateful, but..

Please, dear god, stable 64-bit with multi-core/multi-threaded physics rendering. I don't hate Squad or KSP, but it is incredibly frustrating to have 400-500 hours into a game that has crashed over 150 recorded times for me.

Edited June 29, 2015 by IggyHitokage

[JacobT11]

It's stuff like that above. A stable 1.0 version of a game shouldn't just consistently crash, the memory leaks and issues should have been ironed out during beta, where there's a feature freeze and the updates are solely focused on bug fixes and general improvement. But beta only lasted one version, and even then new features were implemented, and then at launch, more new features in the stable build. The way Squad has shoehorned things into the game without taking a lot of time to just run through the issues and make sure the quality is good is one of the reasons the community is so upset, understandably.

[Wanderfound]

(snip lengthy rant about moderation)

Everything you just posted supports the view that the mods here are doing a remarkably good job.

[severedsolo]

I don't want to sound ungrateful, but..

http://i.imgur.com/E31vF5N.png?1

Please, dear god, stable 64-bit with multi-core/multi-threaded physics rendering. I don't hate Squad or KSP, but it is incredibly frustrating to have 400-500 hours into a game that has crashed over 150 recorded times for me.

And how many mods do you have installed? Can almost guarantee that they are OOM caused by too many mods (which immediately invalidates your warranty as far as asking for stability is concerned).

The issues you mention (64bit and physics) are unity issues not KSP exactly. Sure the memory leaks don't help (I have no idea whether they have been fixed in 1.0.4 because I'm still on 1.0.2) - but I can easily go 2-3 hours between crashes on DirectX with 45 mods installed. It never crashes on OpenGL.

[IggyHitokage]

The issues you mention (64bit and physics) are unity issues not KSP exactly. Sure the memory leaks don't help (I have no idea whether they have been fixed in 1.0.4 because I'm still on 1.0.2) - but I can easily go 2-3 hours between crashes on DirectX with 45 mods installed. It never crashes on OpenGL.

While they are indeed Unity issues, there are 64-bit Unity games out now. Unity 5 has officially been out for almost 4 months now. For example, Cities: Skylines launched in 64-bit only with Unity 5... on March 10th. For the record, Colossal Order (dev of Cities: Skylines) has 13 employees.

It's not unreasonable to assume that a rewrite could/should have been finished by now, that's why I'm frustrated.

[pincushionman]

…It's not unreasonable to assume that a rewrite could/should have been finished by now, that's why I'm frustrated.

Have you not been reading the correspondence from the developers, particularly HarvesteR, regarding this exact thing? U5 transition is ongoing. Well, I might add. There are issues, though; some are inherent to the transiton process, some are because of kludges to U4 that need to be re-kludged for U5, and some are simply kludges to U4 where they need to go back and do it the right way. Other developers who've transitioned either didn't have as many hacks they need to make work, or they had better code to start with, or both.

[Pixel of Life]

It's not hate. People just don't like the way Squad has handled the updates recently. The whole 1.0 launch was a fiasco. Four hotfixes within two months. I mean, seriously, just look at the 1.0.3 changelog on the wiki - it's almost as long as the one for 0.25! All of that stuff should've been included in 1.0, but wasn't because Squad (apparently) rushed the release without enough testing and QA.

[justidutch]

People need something to hate. Better to "hate", or despair a silly little video game and its so-far-unfulfilled potential than another human being.

Keep on hating, vent your anger. Keep it civil, and don't get so bent out of shape by others' opinions.

[J.Random]

I would really like people to stop labeling criticism (and well deserved, at that) and expression of frustration and disappointment as "hate". kthxby

[Scoundrel]

If I may make an observation...

There are a couple of things going on here:

Firstly, Squad's consistent mismanagement of it's community and social media strategy, coupled with the iterative process of software development, has consistently exacerbated the disconnect between the developers and its local userbase, leaving the anxious consumer feeling neglected and ignored. Easily rectified with a bit of effort and a solid commitment to implementing a solution, and shouldn't impact the developers at all.

Secondly, polarization within the community between criticasters and white knights who are more concerned with egos and rationalizations for their opinions have left their mark on the community. Many are tired of the tedious and narcissistic arguments and the resultant treadmill threads. The solution to this problem is the same as creating peace in the middle east¹: all parties need to take a moment and think about what it is they're trying to accomplish, and instead of attacking one another for having differing opinions, teach them to voice their viewpoints in a positive and constructive manner so everyone can move forward.

It's pretty safe to say that these two issues feed into each other in an impressive cycle of negativity and minimal pacification. Until Squad addresses those issues, i don't really see anything improving.

That said, despite the occasional epic PR blunder by Squad, the community has remained pretty good as a whole when compared to other communities. I think the fact that the community hasn't imploded is as much a testament to the quality of our character as a community as it is our compulsion to see what the next update brings.

1. Or we could nuke the planet from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[klgraham1013]

I would really like people to stop labeling criticism (and well deserved, at that) and expression of frustration and disappointment as "hate". kthxby

Well said.

[foxkill2342]

Over half the community is happy with the new update. I think KSP is moving in the right direction. You can't please everyone, but the majority is happy with the product. There are a lot of loud unsatisfied customers.

[jwenting]

haters will be haters...

you see it everywhere on the internet. People don't get everything they desire on a golden platter (silver's no longer good enough) and they scream and rant, whine and shout.

And no, it's not "just criticism". It's mindless and ceaseless ranting. Same few people bringing up the same few grievances time and time again, the more minute the more it's blown up way out of proportion.

And of course they utterly refuse to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with them in their assessment that Squad (or whichever company they target) are evil/morons/stupid/incompetent for not doing exactly as they are told by said ranter, and that everyone who doesn't instantly agree with that assessment must be a paid fanboy.

[Temeter]

Many people in the general forum are just here and probably have reasons for not playing the game instead (or at least browsing the other tutorial/challenge/mod sections). Just look how well the games still does at steam, holding a relatively high place in the topsellers at 40 bucks and having a 98% average rating. Other forums also tend to be much more positive. This one too, around the patches when you'll get a larger and more balanced population. Guess you did watch the forum during a positive phase, this kind of approval/disapproval wave always happened, even long before release. Guess it's an internet thing.

That's not to say there isn't a lot of valid and argumented criticism, which might get treated unfair as well at times, but it's significance tends to start being overblown at one point or another.

[Mischief]

Most of seem very happy with the game, just frustration with how big the atmo changes have been. There is a segment who is unhappy because they created some expectations of their own about how 'release' affects the quality and content released going forward. For some people any kind of big patch, change or updated suddenly becomes a moral failing if it has a '1' in front of it.

Mostly though you have people happy with it. Some are upset that they put a "1" in the version number, some want the difficulty tailored to their own interests without having to use mods to do so.

[basic.syntax]

The forums have a few threads with the word "hate" in them right now, and I wondered when or if someone would try to counter that with a "like" thread, and if it would draw the same amount of interest. Putting the word "hate" in a title seems to draw attention from people who strongly agree and disagree that problems exist. ("Clickbait")

I would really like people to stop labeling criticism (and well deserved, at that) and expression of frustration and disappointment as "hate". kthxby

I think the forum has tons more "like" threads (narrowly about specific features, cool screenshots, rocket builders, what-I-did-today) than the opposite, potentially turning a specific "like" thread into an extension of the critical threads, when posters disagree that this or that item that someone "likes" is flawed or incomplete.

I almost started one. Thought about it, as above. Wrote this post instead.

[mythbusters844]

It would only be an insult if it was unfounded. Last time there was a discussion like this you said...

Of COURSE you edited that out of the original post though.

:^)

As for going to [...] to reason with them, there is no reasoning with them.

EDIT: As for mediocre arguments, "They hate it because they love it" is at the top of the charts.

It's because you're apparently too intelligent to understand what I said. People "hate" (criticize) the game because they love it so much and don't want to see it become wasted potential or for it to die out. Don't insult me just because you're too ingenious to figure out the meaning of a statement.

Edited August 7, 2015 by mythbusters844
removed some memes

[Nigeth]

People who spend the time and effort required to register and post comments love this game. If they didn't they wouldn't care enough to do that and simply stop playing

[IggyHitokage]

Have you not been reading the correspondence from the developers, particularly HarvesteR, regarding this exact thing? U5 transition is ongoing. Well, I might add. There are issues, though; some are inherent to the transiton process, some are because of kludges to U4 that need to be re-kludged for U5, and some are simply kludges to U4 where they need to go back and do it the right way. Other developers who've transitioned either didn't have as many hacks they need to make work, or they had better code to start with, or both.

I have been following it very closely and I understand that it's going to take awhile. My problem, like a lot of people, is impatience. I'd certainly be a lot happier if the game ran better. 1.0.4 definitely has cut down on the memory issues even while running mods, it's fairly stable minus the scene switching memory leak.

I just wish it was sooner rather than later, that's all.

[Tankman101]

OF COURSE you have to make words up out of nowhere and pretend like I "edited my words out".

You did. You can refuse it all you like, but you edited your comment at some point in time to remove that statement. Most likely on the 20th of June (This month) as the edit marker makes clear.

It's because you're apparently too intelligent to understand what I said. People "hate" (criticize) the game because they love it so much and don't want to see it become wasted potential or for it to die out. Don't insult me just because you're too ingenious to figure out the meaning of a statement.

Yes yes, we get it, you like to be snarky. The wit is truly amazing.

[mythbusters844]

You did. You can refuse it all you like, but you edited your comment at some point in time to remove that statement. Most likely on the 20th of June (This month) as the edit marker makes clear.

I edited it to correct a few punctuation mistakes, but other than that I didn't change anything. Stop trying to quote words I never said. :^)

Edited August 7, 2015 by mythbusters844
memed