[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[Shadowmage]

11 hours ago, JoseEduardo said:

same issue, crashed twice shortly after deploying Orion's drogue chutes, here's the log: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/58212317/KSP (9).log

tell me if you need the crash logs as well

Interesting....

Thinking on it a bit more, it could be that 'same old highlighter crash' (god I wish they would fix the stock code on the highlighter so it wouldn't crash, or at least -log- the error).

What is happening is the stock highlighting code caches a list of renderers that it will update.  The parachute module splits the covering mesh off of the main model and makes it its own rigidbody (as debris), but currently does not remove it from the highlighting cache.  As the covering mesh gets deleted as it moves out of rendering range, the next time the user mouses over the part (or other part of the craft), or otherwise causes the highlighter to activate, it will simply crash the game (without logging any errors or exceptions, thats it, just crash.  Seriously SQUAD?).  I have no idea what the precise cause of it is, but seems to be a null-reference to something that is getting fed into the graphics pipeline;  KSP code is probably doing some custom rendering-to-texture without bothering to check if things are null first (or in fact, ever updating the highlighter cache; they assume 100% static unchanging models).

Have updated the parachute module to update the highlighters after the parachute covering mesh has been split off.  Hopefully this will fix the crashes when using those parts.

(Still have not been able to duplicate it, but that is because it would take running the game for longer than my typical testing sessions for the debris to go out of range and be deleted).

 

9 hours ago, tater said:

I don't have real plumes installed, but I suppose it could still conflict. I have TRAILS on now (a Gemini capsule), that's the only new parts mod I think.

Trails had a real plume cfg installed, which I yanked, and the problem went away.

Yea, I really wish the RealPlume repository would update their instructions; their 'default' way of telling people to create RP patches is what is creating this problem in the first place.  Not that the other mods are doing things wrong as far as they know, but the wiki and tutorials are just giving wrong instructions; they follow the instructions correctly, and this is the result.....  (Hmm.. I wonder if the RP wiki is unlocked....could possibly update it myself).

 

Oh, also:

Normals work out decently under the in-game lighting, textures already look quite usable (at the scale these things will normally be seen at), and the parts are functional.

Balance is borked at the moment (all using cloned configs with the same mass/resources/etc), but I'll be working on that a bit today.

 

15 hours ago, mechanicH said:

Forgot to ask, are you going to put in the option to inflate the HABs without rocket parts? 

Probably not; but would be super simple to setup a patch to do it yourself.  Just patch the SSTUInflatable module to have 'inflationMass = 0', and then they won't require any rocket parts.  Of course, they will be just as heavy as if you had used the RP, even in the deflated state; so you'll have to launch >120t to orbit for the 50m torus, all in a single launch.

^^^ That is part of the reason for the use of rocketparts -- reduce the mass of the part as-launched, making for easier to design launchers for the torus itself, while allowing for standard resupply craft to be used to deliver the rocketparts.

[tater]

Wow, so very, very cool. And to think, I started out not liking space stations, lol.

I've been building sort of replica craft. I made a Saturn 1C sort of craft that so far is over-powered to put a HAB-C1 (with a canister of parts to fit it out) to get to LKO. Actually, I can put it into LMO, with fuel (hydrolox, with boil off wasting some) left to land the transfer stage if I care to, lol (2 engines, S1 is an F1, S2 is a J2 2 engine cluster). I have 2 versions, one with a fairing (pure cargo), another with cargo under a petal adapter with a LKO optimized version of the Apollo CSM (small SM).

Got my SV working as well. I thought about importing the BDB LEM. I had tried that before. I wanted to set up the LEM with SSTU tanks, so that I could put proper hypergolic fuel aboard, but it currently has an Altair-like lander, instead.

These replicas will rock in scaled up mods, right out of the box.

At some point a few of us should post various cool LVs and other "stock" SSTU craft, then tweak them to whatever standard @Shadowmage wants, and upload the craft files.

[Jimbodiah]

I can redo my SSTU repository ships (deltas, ares, saturn, sls etc). I could even make an ISS replica withe the current SSTU parts

Edited November 18, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[tater]

22 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

I can redo my SSTU repository ships (deltas, ares, saturn, sls etc). I could even make an ISS replica withe the current SSTU parts

I'd be happy to chuck stuff in there. I search and replaced all the MFT-B tanks with MFT-A and that fixed my old stuff.

Sections would be interesting as well. Replicas are overkill for stock, for example. Stock-optimized craft can often be sort of ridiculous looking (stubby), but make sense for stock players.

[mechanicH]

1 hour ago, Shadowmage said:

That is part of the reason for the use of rocketparts -- reduce the mass of the part as-launched

Ahhh the WEIGHT.... Now it all makes sense to me. Your absolutely right, I don't know why I totally got short sighted on that fact. Thank you sir. I look forward to see it in action.  

[Jimbodiah]

@tater  I just take a lot of the fuel out of the tanks to balance them for stock systems     I'll update some of the craft that I have already... if you want I can add your parts to the repository.

[tater]

@mechanicH It's also more fun, frankly. You feel like you are building something. On the huge tori, it would be cool if you could inflate it, but it was unusable until fitted out, or some other partial inflation mode (unusable) as you might have to launch multiple flights. Also, in a perfect world, some crew would be required for fitting out. Sadly the game does not deal with crew management/logistics at all.

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by tater

[Shadowmage]

Found a -very- interesting read on centrifuge based artificial gravity; it outlines many of the differences that would be experienced in centrifuge-gravity vs. earth-normal gravity, including the differences in trajectories that objects in 'free-fall' would use in such an environment.

http://www.artificial-gravity.com/AIAA-2006-7321.pdf

I definitely learned a thing or two.  Had always wondered what it would look like if you, for example, dropped an object (hint... it doesn't fall straight down...).  This also confirmed my theory that you could create a stationary object inside of the rotating torus by throwing it against the rotation direction at a very precise speed (object would be stationary in regards to the non-moving portions of the station).  Lots of other neat information about how the various parameters of a torus (size, rotation speed) effect the 'gravity' that is generated.  Not too heavy of a read, most of the information can be inferred from the graphs and diagrams that they use.

 

[mechanicH]

@tater your very correct, it will be a lot of fun, now that I think about it, the addition of the shuttle in the future patch I could slowly build the space station and deliver my crew for habitation or deep space journeys. I been actually thinking of simulating this movie called  SUNSHINE, it was a mission to the sun (sci Fi thriller). All I need to figure out is how to build a massive heat shield. Ok back to the subject   Yes, it will be very fun and exciting.     

[tater]

Cool find. The difference between feet and head is a critical issue, happily mitigated by the short stature of kerbals in our case  .

I think that while bathrooms will be easier in the torus, all would ideally be "sit down" except for well-adapted crew  .

[Jimbodiah]

1 hour ago, mechanicH said:

@tater your very correct, it will be a lot of fun, now that I think about it, the addition of the shuttle in the future patch I could slowly build the space station and deliver my crew for habitation or deep space journeys. I been actually thinking of simulating this movie called  SUNSHINE, it was a mission to the sun (sci Fi thriller). All I need to figure out is how to build a massive heat shield. Ok back to the subject   Yes, it will be very fun and exciting.     

Tweakscale the living daylights out of an existing one. You just need to make a patch to change the size constraints.

Or just patch the SSTU one maybe to allow for a 50m version?

[Shadowmage]

Working through the balance for the CFG modules (CFG = Centrifuge; not to be confused with .cfg config files...).

As they are such large / massive parts, I'm contemplating adding some user-configurable 'storage' volume to them.  Would by default be empty, but could be configured pre-launch to be used for any available resources.  This would be done in a separate CONTAINER node in the VolumeContainer setup, and be independently configurable from the existing Battery, Propellant, and Supplies containers (which each have locked/limited resources, as they represent dedicated storage containers for those resources, configured and balanced specifically for the functions and use of the individual part).  Using the ratio controls the user could fill any portion of this 'empty volume' with any other existing/available resource.  Initial balancing in the configs for the parts would be setup with this storage space being empty / having no mass, and would be intended to be filled with resources post launch. 

Want more space for EC, or LS? Simply add it to the 'storage' container.  Need to turn a torus into a fuel-depot?  Easily done.  Perhaps the crew capacity could scale with the inverse of the used portion of the empty space?  So your fuel depot would be literally just storage, rather than crew quarters.

To that effect I've been considering the best way to add 'empty space' to the VC setup.  Currently the best option I've come up with is a dummy resources with zero mass but standard 1-liter volume, which can be used the same as any other resource in the VC configuration GUI; the resource would be untweakable, and not display on any stock resource GUIs, and would exist solely to take up space in the VC volume calculations.  Sure, its a little bit hacky, but one of the cleanest solutions I've come across as far as integration into the existing code; I already use a similar setup for KIS storage space (a dummy zero-mass resource), so I know that most of the intended functions already exist and work properly.

Am also considering allowing in-flight reconfiguration of this 'Storage' container.  This option would only be available on specific parts, and there would be a resource cost and/or other requirements in order for it to be used (such as the presence of an engineer, a workshop-enabled part, or ???).  This has been a long-term plan for the VolumeContainer and quite a bit of the back-end code for this functionality already exists, but I have as-yet been unable to find a good method to balance its use in flight (esp. as with MFT tanks where the dry mass depends on the resources it is configured for); much of that balance problem does not apply to the current implementation of the StationCore parts as they use a constant pre-configured dry mass (changing their resources, aside from EC, does not change the part mass).  This might take a few weeks / releases to get figured out and implemented.

Will likely prototype/test this system on the CFG parts, and if it all works out well and is well received, work on adapting it into the other StationCore parts.  Eventually after I figure out the in-flight reconfiguration/dry mass calc problems I can even add it into the MFT tanks and other parts using the VolumeContainer system.

[_Augustus_]

2 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

This also confirmed my theory that you could create a stationary object inside of the rotating torus by throwing it against the rotation direction at a very precise speed

 

 

So I could leave a donut floating around and eat it later?

[Shadowmage]

1 minute ago, _Augustus_ said:

So I could leave a donut floating around and eat it later?

LoL, Yep.  At 3rpm you could take a bite out of it every 20 seconds as you rotated past it

[BRAAAP_STUTUTU]

Fantastic mod! And i have to thank you for using a different than stock EC/s type,SSTU solar panels are the only ones that work on my game so i would be lost without it.

[tater]

I like the "empty space" ("habitable space", or whatever it might be called) idea. Perhaps such a "resource" could get added to the community resources thing rover dude maintains, then other mods might use the same resource should they need a similar functionality.

[Jimbodiah]

1 hour ago, Shadowmage said:

Am also considering allowing in-flight reconfiguration of this 'Storage' container.

Is the number of crew adjustable in-game? i.e. LF tank for lifter, convert into HAB in orbit?

[AlphaKerman]

Can you add TAC life support in the space station module? Because the capsules already had it while the station module hadn't. Thanks 

[Jimbodiah]

I think Mage mentioned LS still needs balancing (I saw an excel sheet pop up a few pages back) for the DOS/COS parts.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[Sudragon]

14 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Found a -very- interesting read on centrifuge based artificial gravity; it outlines many of the differences that would be experienced in centrifuge-gravity vs. earth-normal gravity, including the differences in trajectories that objects in 'free-fall' would use in such an environment.

http://www.artificial-gravity.com/AIAA-2006-7321.pdf

I definitely learned a thing or two.  Had always wondered what it would look like if you, for example, dropped an object (hint... it doesn't fall straight down...).  This also confirmed my theory that you could create a stationary object inside of the rotating torus by throwing it against the rotation direction at a very precise speed (object would be stationary in regards to the non-moving portions of the station).  Lots of other neat information about how the various parameters of a torus (size, rotation speed) effect the 'gravity' that is generated.  Not too heavy of a read, most of the information can be inferred from the graphs and diagrams that they use.

 

It's also why the urinals are marked 'Aim here, stupid'.

 

[_Krieger_]

Could you add the option to toggle the docking port on the capsules such as on the station parts?

[blowfish]

I managed to make a new engine "mount" out of existing assets, curious if anyone is actually interested in it.  Basically I took the top dome from the upper stage tanks and allowed it to be used on the bottom as well, with appropriate setup for nodes and RCS.  Definitely lacks the detail of many of the other engine mounts (tanks, fuel lines, other greebles).

Shown here, approximating something like a 2 engine Centaur:

Spoiler

 

[Jimbodiah]

Maybe ask José to add it to his Expansion pack? Looks cool to me!!!

I also like @_Krieger_'s idea for the pod dockingport-less option.

[JoseEduardo]

5 hours ago, blowfish said:

I managed to make a new engine "mount" out of existing assets, curious if anyone is actually interested in it.  Basically I took the top dome from the upper stage tanks and allowed it to be used on the bottom as well, with appropriate setup for nodes and RCS.  Definitely lacks the detail of many of the other engine mounts (tanks, fuel lines, other greebles).

Shown here, approximating something like a 2 engine Centaur:

  Hide contents

 

If you could send it to me I could add to the Expansion pack

I had one ready for the next Expansion release, but to be used for tank endcaps (like the old Saturn designs where the interstage would start before the end of the tank), so I didn't even bother with the RCS position, but these two could be merged and used for both functions

[Invader_guy]

I'm having problems with the Inflatable modules.

inside the VAB they stay transparent as if they were not attached after you attach them.

Spoiler

and outside the "inflate" button dissapears right after you click it

Spoiler