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[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]


Shadowmage

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Bit more detail work -- added in all of the RCS ports and a bit more work on the heat-shield coloring for tail/wings/elevons.

Will likely publish an updated release tonight with some bugfixes and the WIP texture on the SC-E parts.

MeAYtG9.png

 

2 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

I made a lot of crafts, but the problem with a WIP mod is that it breaks the builds quite often. Maybe when SSTU gets a stable release it might be worth while to set up a repository for craft like the SLS, Ares, Saturn etc etc etc.

 

1 hour ago, sp1989 said:

Agreed. Honestly, again this is just from my experience craft files really do help people. In terms of people attaching themselves to mod particularly ones with alot of parts like this one or Tantares. People are impressed with the parts but when they get them in game they lose interest because they just don't know what to do with them. So you either have the super creative people who can do fantastic things with packs like this and people who want to do things like that and then get overwhelmed with the amount of parts and don't know what to do. So craft files are helpful to get the most people to download even if they just help inspire creativity. Also pictures of what the pack can do help too. However I agree with you 100% don't make craft files until the pack is close to or fully complete compatibility issues with craft files suck. 

 

Exactly -- it is too early at this point to start working on craft files as they would need to be rebuilt nearly every time the mod updated (at a substantial cost of time to construct and test);  at some point after the initial 'public' releases are available (after 1.1) I will start working on (or rather start accepting from others) some craft files/examples that will be included in the mod distribution.  Until then, just keep in mind you are using an in-development mod, and that many things are unfinished, unpolished, unbalanced, or unavailable.

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I have been playing with SSTU most of the afternoon and I have to say again that everything is beautiful but I have been having serious performance issues. I feel it might have something to do with the SSTU plugin. I can't be sure except for the highly scientific method of removing SSTU from my mods and putting it back and seeing if I can repeat the results. Unfortunately with SSTU I am lucky if I can play 5 minutes before the game crashes. If I uninstall SSTU the game runs fine. I am not running that many mods my mod list is way under 1gb and even though I am running on a Mac that is still way under the limit of what my computer can do. I have attached my log file and picture of all the mods that I am using. Maybe it is just my computer not being able to handle your mod and that makes me sad. However again my mod folder doesn't exceed 1gb so I have a suspicion it could be something on your end. Thanks in advanced. 

Log File: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j9pm1i59c04ycoi/Player.log?dl=0

Udr2cXW.png

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First off I wanna acknowledge that I am new to this thread and that I am finding the results of this work to be amazing!

 

Here are my thoughts and opinions after using the latest development version:

- It takes a LOT of RAM to run, I had to make a new install to guarantee I could run it without crashes

- The modular design of the tanks and mounts was a surprise I did not expect and it was a great feature!

- Models are BEAUTIFUL, but the textures seem very large as loading a lot of them in the editor caused noticeable stuttering

- There was almost everything I could've needed in this pack which blew me away

- I feel as though the files should be organized neater when the final version is released so that if I want say only the SLS or Shuttle from the pack I can simply delete all the files but those, but it was very difficult to find what I wanted to delete to keep only the certain parts.

 

 

Overall, AMAZING work that needs some optimization! But the low part idea and theme is a LIFE-SAVER. Keep up the good work!

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The current version has a bug that spams the log etc causing it to crash, already reported on github and I think Mage is working on it. Use the pre5 release, it is stable and does not have the performance issue of pre6.

 

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/download/0.3.29-pre5/SSTU-0.3.29-pre-5.zip

Edited by Jimbodiah
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Re: Performance issues --

Apparently there may be an event-loop in the current implementation of the engines plugin (or possibly the fairing plugin; won't know until I can get home from work and to some testing).  This would cause both low frame-rate while in the editor, as well as potentially causing an increase in memory use (potentially leading to crashes if the garbage that is generated doesn't get cleaned up well/fast enough).

Will be investigating this shortly (an hour or two), hope to have a solution in place and available later this evening.

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1 hour ago, Jimbodiah said:

I just installed K365 which is a go-between for stock and RSS. 3.2x planet scale, 6.4x distance to planets/moons. You need some huge rockets just to get into LKO :)  The Soyuz capsule now needs a launcher that looks like a saturn V :)

Your going to have to edit the ISPs.

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8 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

The current version has a bug that spams the log etc causing it to crash, already reported on github and I think Mage is working on it. Use the pre5 release, it is stable and does not have the performance issue of pre6.

 

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/download/0.3.29-pre5/SSTU-0.3.29-pre-5.zip

Well, the pre-5 release isn't 'stable' as it were -- it will crash if you try to use engines with any kind of symmetry (well, it'll render the parts useless anyhow).

But yeah, going to be looking into this problem as soon as I'm home from work (silly work always getting in the way of responsibilities modding).

Knowing that the issue isn't present in the pre-5 release greatly narrows down what the cause should be.

 

Re: Texture sizes --  Yes, I use larger textures than many other mods -- I hate muddy/low resolution textures, so will not be using them, and try for a minimum of 128px/meter of texture density.  I really should be using textures 2-4x the size that I currently am, but cannot due to KSP memory limitations and poor texture handling (ever wonder why OpenGL saves so much ram?...poor coding in Unity...) (most modern games use 256-512x for low-res terrain, and far higher for any 'detailed' parts).  Thankfully, if you have problems with the texture sizes/memory use, ActiveTextureManagement will gladly rescale all of the textures for you :)   Would rather have high-res/detailed textures that can be downsampled, than stuck with low-res textures and now way to make them look better. In short -- down-sampling and down-scaling is easy, super-sampling and up-scaling is not (or at least won't give you any better looking textures).

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"Stable" is relative it seems :cool:

@davidy12  I can send up a ship just fine as-is, you just need bigger rockets due to the 3x size of the planet now. I need around 6000dV and 3500m/s escape velocity. Also the atmosphere is 82km high now. Took a bit to get the hang of what was needed, but it seems okay now. 2x RS25 first stage, J2 second stage. If anything, I think the thrust would need to be increased as is done in RO. But this is just fine, only playing around with it for a bit of a challenge to see if RSS is for me.

k365_soyuz.jpg

Edited by Jimbodiah
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I've been playing with 365 as well (easy to do with stock sized parts, while still challenging).

1 hour ago, Shadowmage said:

Re: Texture sizes --  Yes, I use larger textures than many other mods -- I hate muddy/low resolution textures, so will not be using them, and try for a minimum of 128px/meter of texture density.  I really should be using textures 2-4x the size that I currently am, but cannot due to KSP memory limitations and poor texture handling (ever wonder why OpenGL saves so much ram?...poor coding in Unity...) (most modern games use 256-512x for low-res terrain, and far higher for any 'detailed' parts).  Thankfully, if you have problems with the texture sizes/memory use, ActiveTextureManagement will gladly rescale all of the textures for you :)   Would rather have high-res/detailed textures that can be downsampled, than stuck with low-res textures and now way to make them look better. In short -- down-sampling and down-scaling is easy, super-sampling and up-scaling is not (or at least won't give you any better looking textures).

I didn't realize ATM rescaled dds textures, I thought it converted non-dds to dds.

Edited by tater
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Hmm... is there any parts / craft in particular that are causing the performance/memory problems?

As I am running at 60fps with stable memory use while testing things in the editor, and cannot seem to find any issues with any particular parts.  Would help if I knew what I was looking for though...

(Running in openGL mode; game launches at ~1400mb memory use, peaks to ~1550 when switching to the editor, and has been hovering at ~1560 for the past 40 minutes while I've been testing various parts and craft setup).

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2 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

I just installed K365 which is a go-between for stock and RSS. 3.2x planet scale, 6.4x distance to planets/moons. You need some huge rockets just to get into LKO :)  The Soyuz capsule now needs a launcher that looks like a saturn V :)

I've actually found the SSTU Soyuz launcher to be about right at 3x scale, maybe even a little excessive.  It should get the capsule to orbit just fine at 3.2x

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7 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

It manifests as a twitchy screen after placing the first engine under the tank, starting from the CM. Adding another tank and engine increases the issue.

Strange, as I'm not getting any of that when building test rockets.  However I can see from your log in the github issue that it was spamming an event-update loop seemingly without end.

This means one of a few things that I can think of

1.) I already fixed the issue yesterday, but did not recompile the .dll before packaging things up.  Wouldn't surprise me; I was actually seeing a bit of this problem before I recompiled to add in some debug code; as soon as I re-launched with the debug code in-place, I saw no more problems.  Have been constructing ships ever since without problem.
2.) I'm not taking the right steps to duplicate the problem; entirely possible; though I'm constructing entire rockets...
3.) There is some other cross-mod interaction causing the issue.  I can't think of anything that would do it, but it is a possibility.


I'll pack up what I have as soon as I re-export the shuttle parts w/initial textures, and you'll have to let me know if the issue persists.  Seems likely that it was a stale/out-of-date .dll that I packed up (whoops...sorry... is part of why these are testing releases though :))

 

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1 hour ago, Jimbodiah said:

"Stable" is relative it seems :cool:

@davidy12  I can send up a ship just fine as-is, you just need bigger rockets due to the 3x size of the planet now. I need around 6000dV and 3500m/s escape velocity. Also the atmosphere is 82km high now. Took a bit to get the hang of what was needed, but it seems okay now. 2x RS25 first stage, J2 second stage. If anything, I think the thrust would need to be increased as is done in RO. But this is just fine, only playing around with it for a bit of a challenge to see if RSS is for me.

k365_soyuz.jpg

Meh, I'm still a sane rocket lover, so I scale up ISPs, because I like my sane looking rockets.

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50 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Strange, as I'm not getting any of that when building test rockets.  However I can see from your log in the github issue that it was spamming an event-update loop seemingly without end.

This means one of a few things that I can think of

1.) I already fixed the issue yesterday, but did not recompile the .dll before packaging things up.  Wouldn't surprise me; I was actually seeing a bit of this problem before I recompiled to add in some debug code; as soon as I re-launched with the debug code in-place, I saw no more problems.  Have been constructing ships ever since without problem.
2.) I'm not taking the right steps to duplicate the problem; entirely possible; though I'm constructing entire rockets...
3.) There is some other cross-mod interaction causing the issue.  I can't think of anything that would do it, but it is a possibility.


I'll pack up what I have as soon as I re-export the shuttle parts w/initial textures, and you'll have to let me know if the issue persists.  Seems likely that it was a stale/out-of-date .dll that I packed up (whoops...sorry... is part of why these are testing releases though :))

 

Check my log from a few posts above maybe it will give you an idea of whats up? For me maybe because I am running it on a  stock macbook the game just crashes after about 5 minutes or less. It doesn't matter what I am doing. 

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I think I needn't remind Mage on the things he told me to remind him of when it came to the textures department. Just one thought though: What kind of skin are you going for? The original tile-like skin? Or something completely different and unique like you did with the apollo capsule?

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3 minutes ago, tater said:

Turn textures down on the macbook, if you already haven't.

hahahaha yea I did that around version 24.2 Im pretty sure its just the log spamming problem they mentioned above. Something that would slow down FPS or just be annoying for people with fast computers is debilitating for my computer. I don't have that many mods and my gamedata folder is below 1gb. It gotta be something wrong with the SSTU plugin. I am sure they will figure it out. 

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Updated testing release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.3.29-pre7

Hopefully fixes up the performance problems, fixes LC decouples, and adds first-pass texture for SC-E parts.

UcKwfky.png

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, sp1989 said:

Check my log from a few posts above maybe it will give you an idea of whats up? For me maybe because I am running it on a  stock macbook the game just crashes after about 5 minutes or less. It doesn't matter what I am doing. 

The log you posted isn't the log that I really need.. I need the KSP.log file; not sure where it is on a Mac, or if it even exists.  I'm not sure which log you posted, but that appears to be more of a Unity log.  Thanks for the attempt though, is more than most people make.

However, I -think- I have it pinned down / fixed (at least there is no problem on this end) -- looks like it was just an out-of-date .dll (had made code-side changes but not recompiled them).  Check the link above for an updated release :)

 

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