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[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]


Shadowmage

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Very nice :)

That is pretty much what the stuff is intended for. Launching -really- big rockets :)

Hopefully I'll make some actual progress in my career game tonight/this weekend; should have an interesting design or two to share (and showcasing some non-standard uses for a few of the parts).

In the mean-time; here is what I got done last night.

Updated preview of the engine clusters

ZZbvFe4.png

And the whole family of 5m/SC-B parts

LJEcNzo.png

All of the parts are now available in-game, have basic textures (with finalized UV map, so all that is needed if geometry does not change is finishing textures), and have the initial part configs filled out. One thing I might be changing is to -slightly- shorten the SRB segments; as it is now the 5-segment booster is a -bit- tall when used with the 35m tank (likely related to the fact that 64% scaled SLS should actually be ~5.5m in diameter, rather than 5, but I've used the full 64% scaled height values). Anyhow I'll likely release them as-is for this weekend, let me know what you think of the SRB heights; will hold of on doing anymore texture stuff on them in case of geometry changes (and adding the jettison hardware to the model).

Also, strongly thinking on 'slapping together' a set of 3.75 and 2.5m lifetrs by rescaling the 5m (tanks/engines/srbs) downward; would certainly function acceptably as a placeholder until new textures could be made (for the tanks/srbs), or new geometry made (for the engines). Any desire to see these added in the short-term? (They will be coming properly in the long-term, but would be quite a ways out; likely sometime after KSP 1.1)

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If the nose cones and nozzles aren't going to have textures, I'll just use KW.

LoL, where did I state that they would have no textures? In fact, I'm pretty sure I just stated that -none of these textures are even close to finished- (wording was "have basic textures with finalized UV map, so all that is needed ... is finishing textures"). What is shown is a very rough first pass, with nothing more than AO bakes and some initial color to give it some contrast for various parts. With that said, the textures will likely be as you see them for this weekends' release (unfinished/WIP), as I cannot finish/work more on textures until I know the geometry is finalized (which needs testing, which means it needs to be released as-is first :) ).

You are still more than welcome to use KW parts, though I don't think their SRBs will be able to match these for thrust or booster capability. If I remember correctly, the largest of KW SRBs is ~85t; the -smallest- of my SRBs (2-segment) is ~79t. The thrust is fairly linear with weight; the largest of my SRBs is ~200t, and will put out <2x the thrust of the largest KW booster (if I'm doing my math/remembering the stats for the KW stuff properly).

You should put the updated releases into the DropBox folder that way I don't actually have to download the latest release! We should keep it 100% updated.

Aye, I need to start updating it/keeping it in synch. Will get it updated with this weekends' (tomorrows?) release. In the meantime, if you have updated any descriptions/etc in there, please let me know and I'll get them merged for tomorrows release. Could possibly upload a 'pre-release' version of my dev assets at some point today if you wanted to get started on testing/updating the brand-new parts -- just let me know if wanted/needed.

The main reason I haven't been updating it so far is that I was unsure if you had made any changes, and did not want to overwrite them. Will have to come up with some sort of system so that I know when you have updated things/know to look for changed files/know that I need to merge the changes in. Would suggest using GitHub and Pull Requests if it wasn't such a huge learning curve to get setup and working (as it is intended exactly for these types of situations, synching assets and code between multiple developers). (If you -are- interested in going this route, let me know, we can get it set up, but there would be some training invovled)

PS: Shadow, how do you plan to showcase it? Are you going to release it or is there a twitch channel I'm unaware of?

I'm terrible at PR, marketing, and advertising. And there is not an internet connection in Montana capable of doing streaming (residential at least generally caps at <5mbps upstream bandwidth, need ~20mbps for streaming), so twitch/etc is off the table. Could potentially upload videos (if I were any good at making them) to Youtube/etc, though it takes hours. Last time I tried doing showcase videos (for a Minecraft mod I was developing), they took far too many hours to make for a simple 5-10 minute video, and ended up of questionable quality.

Somewhere closer to KSP 1.1 I'll likely start working on putting together the official 'release thread' with some updated Imgur albums of the 'finished' stuff to show off the various parts and their basic intended purposes. And that will likely be the extent of my 'showcasing'. I have neither the time nor skills to do much more.

Having said that, if you (or anyone else) is interested in developing some promotional material (after the parts are finished), I would be very appreciative and happy to add them into the OP (and give you a special entry in the credits ;) ).

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I haven't made any changes, and I'll let you know if I do. I was just wanting to play with the textured bits and stuff. c:

Ahh. With the manual synching that is needed, about once a week is the best I will be able to manage as far as updating it goes (i.e. I should be able to keep it in-synch with the latest test release). If you really want the up-to-date in-development stuff, would need to get GitHub set up on your end with access to the private dev repository.

I'll see about updating the dropbox stuff over lunch though, so you should at least have things as I left them last-night (as in the renders above). That way if you -do- feel like doing descriptions, at least you'll have a synched up starting place :)

Edit:

Dropbox has been updated with the latest dev stuff.

Edited by Shadowmage
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They are rather nice in game! And I did make one quick change to the folder in Dropbox...

I changed the part SC-B-TANK to appear in the Fuel Tanks category rather than Engines... I don't know why but that bugged me. :P

Also, another thing I've noticed is that the HUS and the SLS core tank are very slightly different shades of white...

And another thing I just thought of... This is a mod for low part count solutions, and I like that. But what about other kinds of lifters? We can't use an SLS for all of our low part count lifting needs! We should shoot for a small and medium booster, too.

I was thinking for the medium lifter, since you've already had the ICPS since the begging, there could be a Delta IV Heavy and such. And for a smaller booster, I was thinking like another kind of Delta, but the Delta II's 9 solid rocket boosters might conflict with your low part count solutions, so what about an Atlas V 401 or something? Just something small. :b

Plus with the Atlas V, there have been many ways to do it that involves very little part count.(CCB fuel tank and RD-180 one part, adapter and second stage decoupler one part, RL-10a engine and Centaur fuel tank one part)

Plus, an Atlas V in your art style would be absolutely amazing.

Edited by VenomousRequiem
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They are rather nice in game! And I did make one quick change to the folder in Dropbox...

I changed the part SC-B-TANK to appear in the Fuel Tanks category rather than Engines... I don't know why but that bugged me. :P

Also, another thing I've noticed is that the HUS and the SLS core tank are very slightly different shades of white...

Thx for the heads up on the change; will get at least that merged in :) Let me know if you make any others (hmm... I'm going to have to find a tool to tell me what files/lines were updated to simplify this process).

Hmm.. good catch on the colors. Apparently I messed up my palette at some point and did not notice. Will be updating/re-exporting the CORE textures with the proper shade of white here shortly; will be fixed for tomorrows update. There was exactly -one- shade of white/gray difference.

Feel free to post up some pre-preview screenshots if you get around to it :)

Or wait, have I been stupid? Are the tanks and engines going to have those basic textures on the update this weekend?

They will all have basic / unfinished textures for this weekend's update (pretty much exactly what was shown in the renders earlier this morning, perhaps some minor updates/improvements). There should be no more white un-textured parts in the next release. Trying to get all the still-WIP stuff to the 'just needs textures finished' stage, as at that point I am done messing with Unity (where most errors and frustration will occur).

The only reason I released the un-textured parts was to get some feedback regarding the overall balance and feel of the parts; as I cannot even start UV unwrapping or texturing until the geometry has been mostly finalized, and the balance would influence the geometry, it was far quicker and easier to use the untextured parts for the initial 'testing the waters' release. I will probably do similar test releases of new parts in the future -- put out an untextured 'test' part to check the balance and get feedback on it before it is too late to change things (as after I have done the UV unwrap and AO bakes it is -very- difficult to change geometry cleanly... requires remaking major portions of the model, re-exploding the parts, re-setting up AO bake proxies, re-baking, and finally rebuilding the model from the base and proxies after all changes have been made, and re-exporting to unity, and re-compiling from unity for KSP). For example it took me about two hours to rework the new SRB skirt hardware into the SRB model; and that was without needing to rebuild or re-unwrap stuff; that was all time spent re-proxying, re-baking, and re-building from proxies. And I -still- have to re-export the models from Blender into Unity, recompile them in Unity for KSP, and re-mask and export the textures (another hour or so worth of work). At least programming, for all the complexities it has, has a simple 'push the button and copy the finished file' setup; only takes me like 30s to compile and update the plugin (a big part of why I so dislike modeling and texturing, and would much rather concentrate on coding, if only there were an artist willing to help make these parts).

As this is the -dev- thread, and these are all dev/testing releases, I feel releasing test parts/unfinished stuff is acceptable. Anything that gets released in the public release thread (which doesn't exist yet) will be 'finished' as far as textures and geometry are concerned (balance is an always ongoing process, and will likely never be considered complete).

Bit of a preview of the added SRB skirt hardware (nose hardware will likely be in the texture where applicable, as it appears to just be nozzles built into the nosecones).

CFzUjgd.png

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And another thing I just thought of... This is a mod for low part count solutions, and I like that. But what about other kinds of lifters? We can't use an SLS for all of our low part count lifting needs! We should shoot for a small and medium booster, too.

I was thinking for the medium lifter, since you've already had the ICPS since the begging, there could be a Delta IV Heavy and such. And for a smaller booster, I was thinking like another kind of Delta, but the Delta II's 9 solid rocket boosters might conflict with your low part count solutions, so what about an Atlas V 401 or something? Just something small. :b

Plus with the Atlas V, there have been many ways to do it that involves very little part count.(CCB fuel tank and RD-180 one part, adapter and second stage decoupler one part, RL-10a engine and Centaur fuel tank one part)

Plus, an Atlas V in your art style would be absolutely amazing.

A few posts ago I mentioned I was thinking about rescaling the 5m tank/srb?/engine geometry down for 3.75m and 2.5m lifter parts (at least for a set of test parts, will likely design specific geometry for at least the engines for other lifter packs, and updated textures on the tanks). These would form the lower stages for the smaller lifter packs, and I would likely design some size-specific upper-stages for use with them as well. These two sets of parts would likely be branded as Series-A, to replace the retired Apollo inspired stuff.

Will likely be keeping the engines separate from the fuel tanks for these as well (for the lower stage/lifters); the part-count reduction will have to come from eliminating the need for fuel-tank stacking and the pre-built engine clusters and upper stages. Sadly from my time trying to develop the SC-B balance, I've realized that 'one size fits all' tank+engine setups... well, aren't. It sounds good in theory, but ends up not being modular enough to make good/efficient use of in game. I would rather have 1 extra part (for the lifter engine cluster), than have to design multiple different core lifters or be stuck with a single model.

Also considering the creation of a couple sizes (and lengths!) of service modules (with integrated RCS, SAS/ASAS, engines, and solar panels/generator of some sort); I noticed I was needing to create service modules with unbearable part count (for a service module anyway) just to deliver stuff to my stations;

I'll run some balance numbers and see what I can come up with regarding using some rescaled stuff; might even be able to throw together some test configs for this weekends' release (would use existing models and textures, just rescaled in the config for smaller parts/use).

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Aww... aren't the tiny tanks just so cute?

(Just showing the diameters for comparison; they are all available in height increments of their diameter from 1-8x; so 1.25m diameter tank is available in 1.25m-10m heights; 2.5m diameter in 2.5m-20m; 3.7m diameter in 3.75m-30m)

w6jm4KZ.png

So yah, will be including rescaled versions of the semi-procedural 5m tank with tomorrows update. Will work on getting a different texture set for them in the future perhaps; the geometry is probably okay as-is. Nothing in the line of engines/boosters for smaller diameters yet; will require a bit more config work to get those up and running... might have them for tomorrow, might not (still have a few other things to do, such as some plugin code to clean up).

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I agree, the orange tank saves mass. Anyways, I'm really excited to see the WIP textures.

PS: Is the Tanks in engines fixed?

Currently I will be only doing a single texture set for the tanks (black/white); I do not currently have texture-switch support in the mesh-switch plugin (will take awhile to implement properly), and still need to finish at least the first set of textures before I begin thinking on a second :)

Hmm... might be able to whip up just a texture-switch module that functions independently of the mesh-switch, would reduce the time to implement; but would still take at least a day or two worth of modding time. So... perhaps for next week. (Still doesn't help with the time for textures)

And yes, I have moved the fuel tanks into the fuel-tanks category :) Took me awhile to figure out what you were talking about as you made no mention of part categories (I kept looking for fuel tank parts in the engine parts, or fuel resources/etc); but I got it figured out and cleaned up.

Will likely have an updated release here in a few minutes if no last minute bug pop up during internal testing.

In the mean-time....

ciKyjRE.png

MH6oCSn.png

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You should make a texture switch thing, too! I heard that the SLS probably won't be painted, so you should include the orange bare insulation texture for the tanks!

that would also allow for a Jupiter-like recreation without using Procedural Parts :D

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Also, just curious, in .4.x, what does LC SKY mean? A new lander can?

- - - Updated - - -

that would also allow for a Jupiter-like recreation without using Procedural Parts :D

Jupiter? The Jupiter rocket wasn't cryogenic or have orange tanks? If you're talking about Von Braun's rocket, or is there some rocket I'm missing?

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Currently I will be only doing a single texture set for the tanks (black/white); I do not currently have texture-switch support in the mesh-switch plugin (will take awhile to implement properly), and still need to finish at least the first set of textures before I begin thinking on a second :)

Hmm... might be able to whip up just a texture-switch module that functions independently of the mesh-switch, would reduce the time to implement; but would still take at least a day or two worth of modding time. So... perhaps for next week. (Still doesn't help with the time for textures)

And yes, I have moved the fuel tanks into the fuel-tanks category :) Took me awhile to figure out what you were talking about as you made no mention of part categories (I kept looking for fuel tank parts in the engine parts, or fuel resources/etc); but I got it figured out and cleaned up.

Will likely have an updated release here in a few minutes if no last minute bug pop up during internal testing.

In the mean-time....

http://i.imgur.com/ciKyjRE.png

http://i.imgur.com/MH6oCSn.png

I love you.

Can't wait!

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Updated test/pre-release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.2.12-beta

Tons of changes, see the link for downloads and the full change log.

Highlights include DDS textures for many parts, several new parts to play with 5m stuff and the semi-procedural fuel tanks for 1.25m, 2.5m, and 3.75m diameters (no engines/etc yet), and quite a few bug fixes.

Please let me know if you run into any problems/issues with any of the parts or plugin functionality.

I'm also interested to hear what you all think of the balance regarding fuel quantities/mass/etc for the tanks, engines, and SRBs.

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