Shadowmage

[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

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wat?

adding @CobaltWolf's FASA knock-off mod is just going to add a new MFT, "solid" interstages, scaleable IU, engine clustering for the Saturn engines and some one-part Apollo service module using his FASA-alike parts

there might be more stuff too but I'm not remembering anything right now...

the extra textures are all from my pack, even those based on BDB and Tantares Soyuz

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Well, apparently RD has messed up MKS with new mod dependencies that I have no interest in using (or having installed, or dealing with the incompatibilities they will bring).... (e.g. Configurable Containers; would be okay with it... if it worked with SSTU-MFT tanks out of the box... but it looks like it doesn't even support tweakscale, so zero chance of it supporting modular style parts).

Anyone aware of alternate base-building and life-support mods? (not TAC, or Snacks, or kerbalism)

I was planning on using MKS as the basis for the 'BaseCore' parts, but with its new dependencies it will make it simply incompatible with most of SSTU (or at least very inconsistent in how things are handled between the mods).  Hmm... perhaps I can continue using USI-LS, but work out a more cohesive system for resource management and logistics.  Not at all what I -want- to do... but I don't have much of a choice apparently.

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14 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Well, apparently RD has messed up MKS with new mod dependencies that I have no interest in using (or having installed, or dealing with the incompatibilities they will bring).... (e.g. Configurable Containers; would be okay with it... if it worked with SSTU-MFT tanks out of the box... but it looks like it doesn't even support tweakscale, so zero chance of it supporting modular style parts).

1

They fixed the requirement for CC within like a day. It now only requires the CC Core, which like, for example, Firespitter Core, will only affect the mod's items that require it and thus not cause any incompatibilities. 

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27 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Well, apparently RD has messed up MKS with new mod dependencies that I have no interest in using (or having installed, or dealing with the incompatibilities they will bring).... (e.g. Configurable Containers; would be okay with it... if it worked with SSTU-MFT tanks out of the box... but it looks like it doesn't even support tweakscale, so zero chance of it supporting modular style parts).

Anyone aware of alternate base-building and life-support mods? (not TAC, or Snacks, or kerbalism)

I was planning on using MKS as the basis for the 'BaseCore' parts, but with its new dependencies it will make it simply incompatible with most of SSTU (or at least very inconsistent in how things are handled between the mods).  Hmm... perhaps I can continue using USI-LS, but work out a more cohesive system for resource management and logistics.  Not at all what I -want- to do... but I don't have much of a choice apparently.

Hey just FYI the CC dependency isn't sticking around in MKS, it was added because it was a dependency for Ground Construction and MKS switched to that instead of EPL. However CC has been removed as a dependency from GC and MKS will not actually need CC anymore (although I hear it may still require the DLL but non of the changes and problems that it has been causing)

At least that is my understanding of the situation at this time.

I hope it is all true because I would really like to see the BaseCore synergize with MKS as currently MKS and USILS are the (in my opinion) best implemented base-building and life support system we have.

Edit: and Fobok beat me to it

Edited by Akira_R

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I hope that all is true, but looking at the current MKS distribution, it includes both the ConfigurableContainers .dll + and the entire ConfigurableContainers mod.

https://github.com/BobPalmer/MKS/tree/master/FOR_RELEASE/GameData

 

Also not happy about the dropping of EPL support; EPL seems like a much more robust and generic construction method to me.  Ground Construction isn't bad per-se, but it is far more limited, and not what I'm looking for or interested in using for construction.  Hopefully its not a hard-dependency or I'll still be forced to drop MKS use.

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@Shadowmage I don't use any other life support than TAC, so no help in that department. But, as for alternate base building mods, I use either Nils' Kerbal Planetary Base Systems or Angel's Pathfinder mods. Both have a different approach to building surface bases, but has EP support. KPBS has an actual launching of "core" modules to land on the surfaces until you can establish EL supply chain to build base extensions. Pathfinder uses "inflatable hab technology" you can shove into a container to land on the surface and takes a kerbal to put the modules onto the segments you inflate. I haven't played with them in a while, but from the looks of things, both mods have extended their capabilities. I'm not even sure if this is the information you actually wanted. I just like to hear myself type about things I know very little about. lol.

If you could give an idea on what you are actually looking for as a base building technology, I can find information for you on that (not like you haven't done so already).  

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@Shadowmage Seriously apologize for the tl;dr post here but I couldn't find any shorter way to explain this...

I've currently got the entire suite of MKS/GC/CC running side by side with SSTU/EPL and having absolutely no issues and having made no changes.  Mine is not a small mod load either.  I'm running a total of 175 mods and all is well even with all of the above installed.  I've even got stations integrated with SSTU/MKS parts and using the MKS resource chain and not a single hiccup.  The initial change over when GC/CC was added caused some goofy things to happen, but the quick update that followed made every single issue disappear for me FWIW.  I am changing my plans for my upcoming orbital assembly dock away from MKS and using the SpaceDock mod for my build location in the event that it doesn't cooperate with EPL any longer - I don't know if it does or not.  

All that said, as far as base building and life support goes, that's my world in KSP that I live in pretty much all the time since I love long colony games.  @ComatoseJedi is correct that the only other two very actively developed and complete base building mods out there is the Wild Blue series from @Angel-125 and KPBS from @Nils277.  Angel's Wild Blue series is heavily integrated with EPL and has numerous unique approaches to science, building and resource management.  It is largely ground oriented and relies on other mod's for life support systems.  The nice part of Wild Blue is the ability to create whatever template you want to insert into the system.  This is how players have integrated several of their favorites into the functionality of Wild Blue.  KPBS from Nils I haven't played with recently although I have heavy, heavy experience with it in the past.  The last time I left off with it he had heavily integrated TACLS support, EPL production chains and resource management that was largely based around stock/EPL but he was making great strides in getting support for MKS as well.  Nils always used to maintain an extremely heavy level of activity with KPBS so it wouldn't surprise me to find that it's far beyond where it was at when I last used it.

As for life support.  No.  Nothing.  TACLS, USILS and Snacks are pretty much it for widely supported mods and of course there's Kerbalism which is awesome if you don't mind sacrifice of many other mods.  If I can offer my 2 cents of a suggestion.  If you have to bail on MKS construction because of GC and need to abandon that portion of the resource chain I don't really see an issue even in the slightest although keeping it would be the best result if possible.  The fact is, the construction resource chain of MKS is strongly tied up in the MKS modules and planetary logistics now.  It makes more sense when setting up colonies to keep heavy resources like ore, uranite and metals on the ground in bulk storage containers where it can be easily harvested into and access them from orbit using the planetary logistics and MKS comes custom made with these cans of course.  Unless you planned on mirroring that functionality somewhere within SSTU modules then I don't see it as any great loss - again with the caveat that keeping it would be the ideal result.

That said - the loss of USILS would be tragic.  The combination of the life support requirements and habitation requirements give it the lightest "realest" touch I think can be found for KSP.  This is coming from someone who refused to convert from TACLS all the way up until I didn't have a life support system available to me when it died shortly around the release of 1.1.2ish.  TACLS is no longer expanding and to my knowledge, neither is Snacks which is one of the main reasons why USILS is so attractive and it's loss would hurt.

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5 minutes ago, JoseEduardo said:

@Shadowmage, if you want to take a look at implementing WildBlue Technologies on BaseCore, I heard @Angel-125 is part of some secret kerbal discord society :P

*nudge nudge*

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3 hours ago, JoseEduardo said:

@Shadowmage, if you want to take a look at implementing WildBlue Technologies on BaseCore, I heard @Angel-125 is part of some secret kerbal discord society :P

I can neither confirm nor deny...

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Just now, Angel-125 said:

I can neither confirm nor deny...

I heard it on one of those internet conspiracy theories videos

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I'm going to give it a bit before I decide which way to go on the MKS stuff.  Hopefully RoverDude can get it all sorted out.  I might even start up a new temporary game to see how 'messed up' it feels and how dependent these new dependencies are; might be stuff I can work around/hack out through configs/live with.  To be clear, MKS is RoverDude's mod, and he is absolutely free to do with it as he would like.  I'm not going to say that what he has done is wrong, because it simply is not, but it does make the mod far less attractive to me for my own uses.


As far as what I would be looking for in an alternative 'base building' mod -- its less the 'building stuff' that I'm looking for, and more of the logistics.  Resource management, resource processing and conversion, resource storage, unfocused resource production, use, and conversion (including EC and LS supplies, whatever they may be).  I don't need hab mechanics, as those would be handled by the LS mod.  Nor do I need science mechanics as those are handled through stock mechanisms.  The 'building stuff' mechanics are already handled really well with the combination of KIS, KAS, and EPL.

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When I first saw this mod, I thought, "Oh, this looks cool." I was expecting command capsules with integrated science/heatshields/parachutes/etc.

Instead I got a total realism(?) overhaul. I was blown away by the sheer volume of content.

Well done! I can't really make head nor tail of how half the parts work, but that's my fault for not reading the wiki.

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2 hours ago, checkyostagin said:

There are a bunch of engines in this that require non stock fuels.  Is there a mod that provides them?

The fuel configs that the engines use already come with this mod. If you use MFT, the option to choose these other fuels will not show up due to the RealFuels patch. Either ditch MFT or delete the RealFuels patch config in the Patches folder (or wherever that darn thing is). 

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General development update:

Still working on wheel stuff mostly.  My original goal was to have it cleaned up by end of Feb. and move onto maintenance mode from there (and new part modeling/development...but plugin should be 'done'), and still look to be mostly on track for that goal.

One thing that may possibly be showing up in KF, but be of benefit to SSTU, will be pre-built landing leg sets.  These would be dual, triple, and quad configurations of landing legs intended to use stack (node) attachment onto the bottom of fuel tanks (between the tank and engine/decoupler/whatever would normally be on the bottom), in both horizontal and vertical configurations.  These would include both scaling support, and diameter adjustment.  Single legs will still be available that use standard surface-mounting for 'normal' uses, but I feel the stack-mount leg sets will also be able to accommodate many standard uses.

 

Have also spent quite a bit of time investigating the MKS situation.  The problem I am having was/is with the inclusion of Configurable Containers in the distro -- I already have my own fuel tank system, and really don't need another one messing around with -any- parts in my install (I've slowly been patching out the B9/IFS/FS fuel switching through optional patches).  Thankfully it looks like this situation should be cleaned up in the near future by RD and Allista (supposedly already has been, but awaiting updated releases with proper packaging).  Even if it isn't fixed on their end, I did a bit of code-fu and determined that there is no plugin-level dependencies between GC and CC -- it is merely included because some of the -parts- used in GC use the CC containers.  Those parts are not necessary to the functioning of the GC mod, so can be safely removed, along with all remnants of CC (plugin, configs, etc).  And as long as there are no plugin-level dependencies between MKS and GC, I can even remove GC entirely (apparently there will be some config-level dependencies, but those can be solved through patches).

So now I'm just 'stuck' with coming up with my own EPL-MKS patch set, shipyard models, and finishing off my optional patches for the rest of USI stuff. A shipyard was originally in the StationCore plans, but I felt that the USI shipyard was adequate; that part is going to be removed in a near-future USI update, so about the only remaining option is to create one myself (I could keep the USI model around for personal games, but cannot redistribute it due to licensing).

 

And lastly, @blowfish was kind enough to donate a nearly completed RD-180 engine model.  I'm working through the final cleanup steps on the model now, and will likely be moving onto the UV/texturing within a day or two.  The plans are to take this base model and also create the RD-171 and RD-190 engines from it, so this should result in three new engines being available with the next SSTU release.  Probably still at least a couple weeks out; no way I'll be able to get the UV and texturing done on even just the -180 for this weekend, so it will be next weekend at the earliest.

Preview of the mostly finished engine model -- about all that is left on it for model development is a bit of simplification / poly reduction (currently at ~20k tris):

ad410b92-f90f-11e6-8080-af8d8571ceb2.png

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Woot, came to forum at lunch, and get an dev post for the best KSP mod!

Looks awesome!

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I think I need to start taking some screenshots again, and keep this thread where I can easily find it...

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Awesome, one less mod to use(Bobcat's SovietEngines)! SO glad that the RD-180 and a couple derivatives are finally being added.

Edited by StickyScissors

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1 hour ago, StickyScissors said:

Awesome, one less mod to use(Bobcat's SovietEngines)! SO glad that the RD-180 and a couple derivatives are finally being added.

I know what you mean - two for me because I'm also using the Zenit...although I might keep that one because it's pretty for screenies...:D

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8 hours ago, StickyScissors said:

Awesome, one less mod to use(Bobcat's SovietEngines)! SO glad that the RD-180 and a couple derivatives are finally being added.

You can already find it here. :)

 

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3 hours ago, Alcentar said:

You can already find it here. :)

I've got various RD versions lying around but the difference is, this one is coming as part of SSTU and in the spirit of lowering part count I shall celebrate its coming by not installing another one. :P

I actually really like the RDs from that pack.  Others too, good stuff in there.

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1 hour ago, rasta013 said:

I've got various RD versions lying around but the difference is, this one is coming as part of SSTU and in the spirit of lowering part count I shall celebrate its coming by not installing another one. :P

I actually really like the RDs from that pack.  Others too, good stuff in there.

Are you kidding? What is the decrease in the number of parts if the person interested in the engines, but it will have all of his unwanted barrels of fuel, this decrease the number of parts?

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