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[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]


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31 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Thanks for the confirmation, and glad it is working for you now/again.  I'll try and get a repack done tonight that fixes the published release up (likely a new version#).

I should have tried that last night, I thought about it, but I was sorta beat.

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Hi,

I had my eye on this Mod for some time now and i thought i try it out since there has been a Bugfix and recompile for 1.6.

I am quite frankly amazed by what you have created. The amount of work you must have put into it must be innumerable. Thank you for your work. 

I've got a question about the Solar cells:

I am currently playing a career in the After Kerbin Planet Pack. In case you are not familiar with this mod, it starts billions of years after the stock game. The sun is coming to an end and is much stronger than the stock sun resulting in a much higher power output. I did however see, that the sstu cells seem to not reflect that. So far i have only tried the first ones you get in the tech tree. So are they supposed to be rather weak or is this an compatibility issue?  

Edited by Columbo
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7 hours ago, Columbo said:

Hi,

I had my eye on this Mod for some time now and i thought i try it out since there has been a Bugfix and recompile for 1.6.

I am quite frankly amazed by what you have created. The amount of work you must have put into it must be innumerable. Thank you for your work. 

Welcome to the forums :)

Glad to hear you are enjoying the mod;  being the only full-time developer, it certainly has taken some time to put together and get to its current state.  Work is ongoing though, and there is still more fun stuff planned for the future ;)

7 hours ago, Columbo said:

I've got a question about the Solar cells:

I am currently playing a career in the After Kerbin Planet Pack. In case you are not familiar with this mod, it starts billions of years after the stock game. The sun is coming to an end and is much stronger than the stock sun resulting in a much higher power output. I did however see, that the sstu cells seem to not reflect that. So far i have only tried the first ones you get in the tech tree. So are they supposed to be rather weak or is this an compatibility issue?  

Excellent question; unfortunately the best answer I can give at this time is 'I'm not sure, it should be working as well as the stock solar panels, as they share similar code where energy output is based on body heat and solar flux'. 

Now, the After Kerbin Planet Pack may well be patching the stock solar panel parts to change how they function (higher EC generation rates), in which case the obvious solution would be to also patch the SSTU solar panels in a similar fashion.  As this is not a mod/pack that I use, I cannot supply these patches, and they would have to come from someone more familiar with the planet pack and its setup.

Anyone else familiar with After Kerbin Planet Pack, and how it affects changes to solar panels?

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On 2/20/2019 at 10:29 AM, Shadowmage said:

Anyone else familiar with After Kerbin Planet Pack, and how it affects changes to solar panels?

 

I am flying in GPP + Rescale! 2.5 with BDB, SSTU, reDirect and ProbesPlus! (and a few other smaller part mods.)   None of the mods in question have issues tracking between the TWO solar bodies and I get a variable EC level depending on WHICH solar body they are tracking.   I dug into the files for AKPP and could not see anything different between GPP  and AKPP dealing with solar power....  I would suggest this is actually a mod in-compatibility between SOMETHING ELSE that is altering AKPP and SSTU and not AKPP or SSTU itself.   But as I am NOT an expert on Solar effects don't hold me to that!

 

Un-related a few Bugs/questions that have popped up in my play-through.

  1. RS-68 engine effects are always on.
  2. RS-68 Engine seems to be wrong scale...  5m * 0.64kerbinscale = 3.2m  Closest Diameter commonly used in game is 3.125 yet RS-68 default is 3.75 is this an error or correct?

I am trying to build a Delta IV to launch my Big-Gemini from BDB with IOPT derived 2.5m SM (you have seen the SM in action already.)    I need something smaller than Saturn I(any) but bigger than Titan IVa and Delta IV would fall into that range if it wasn't 3.75m  At 3.75m scale It is almost cheaper to launch it on a Saturn IF with extra SRMs.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Closest Diameter commonly used in game is 3.125

Not for anything I've created or used.

59 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

default is 3.75 is this an error or correct?

No, that is the intended scale.  3.75m is the closest stock diameter that would allow for the engine to fit; its way too big for 2.5m.  The RS-68 is one of the only oddly scaled engines, being closer to ~72% real-world scale compared to the ~64% used on everything else.

In theory should be easy enough for you to rescale to 3.125 (as the engine cluster module supports rescaling functions), though I can't offhand remember exactly what would be needed.  The same stuff that is used to rescale SSTU engines for RO/RSS would be used for this, so I'de check the RO patches (if they were ever updated for recent SSTU versions?).

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So I am was building a massive station in Space around Gael in a Galileo Planet Pack 2.5x Rescale game.   I am  err was going to be using station parts from 4 different mods including SSTU, I am using Rockets from 6 different parts packs etc.   This is a picture of my "poor" station.  I have so many different node types I put a bunch of docking ports in the WRONG spots.  This was originally supposed to be a station in a form of a H stacked on-top of a h.   it WOULD have had 4 of the amazing SSTU Solar arrays at each end of the Capitol H.

cLXrrC0.jpg

Instead because I didn't build it on the ground first to test it I end up with this string bean station that is missing 75% of the planned station parts.   It still performs basic functions but I was trying to build a Fuel depot / Crew transfer / OP Exploration launch base for my expansion beyond Gael.

Currently that is a BDB Apollo Mk2.5 (has the Mk3/5 SM with the TR-201 LMDE engine.)  And an Orion from reDirrect. 

Haven't seen any station luv here in a while so I thought it was time to pay my taxes.   BTW Shadowmage, I do LOVE the airlock end-cap available on some of the COS parts!  I think EVERY SSTU big solar array I have used has ended in one of those.... To go do maintenance on the Solar array when it breaks right :)

 

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On 2/20/2019 at 10:29 AM, Shadowmage said:

Excellent question; unfortunately the best answer I can give at this time is 'I'm not sure, it should be working as well as the stock solar panels, as they share similar code where energy output is based on body heat and solar flux'. 

Now, the After Kerbin Planet Pack may well be patching the stock solar panel parts to change how they function (higher EC generation rates), in which case the obvious solution would be to also patch the SSTU solar panels in a similar fashion.  As this is not a mod/pack that I use, I cannot supply these patches, and they would have to come from someone more familiar with the planet pack and its setup.

Anyone else familiar with After Kerbin Planet Pack, and how it affects changes to solar panels?

Not familiar with the planet pack but with regards to patching any panels, the answer should be don't.

If solar output is properly adjusted then every single solar panel should automatically be adjusting its electrical output to suit since it's just a matter of scaling at that point.

Edited by Starwaster
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8 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Not familiar with the planet pack but with regards to patching any panels, the answer should be don't.

If solar output is properly adjusted then every single solar panel should automatically be adjusting its electrical output to suit since it's just a matter of scaling at that point.

Indeed -- my thoughts were that, if I've coded my plugin properly, and the solar flux properties of the sun(s) were specified properly, that it should all just work.

The fact that it apparently doesn't work, would to me indicate that one of the two above premises is false -- either my plugin code is not working for adjusted solar bodies (entirely possible, I've not tested it with changes to the solar system), or the solar flux for the adjusted star is incorrect.  Or possibly both, good luck figuring that one out :)

If anyone can provide me with MINIMAL test case scenarios that reproduce this issue (without downloading ~500mb planet packs), preferably a test case that does not use Kopernicus, I will gladly do some testing, verification, and issue any fixes necessary to make sure it works.  But I will not be downloading some random giant planet pack just for testing -- I don't use them, and have no personal interest in them given the issues I've had with Kopernicus in the past.

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4 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Indeed -- my thoughts were that, if I've coded my plugin properly, and the solar flux properties of the sun(s) were specified properly, that it should all just work.

The fact that it apparently doesn't work, would to me indicate that one of the two above premises is false -- either my plugin code is not working for adjusted solar bodies (entirely possible, I've not tested it with changes to the solar system), or the solar flux for the adjusted star is incorrect.  Or possibly both, good luck figuring that one out :)

Maybe, but is it actually verified that there is an energy increase even with stock panels? (forgive me if I missed that part; I'm running a bit of a fever ATM)

Because I'm wondering at this point if 'After Kerbin' actually makes the necessary changes  to solar output to begin with... I'm curious enough to delve into it but damn, it's a 430 MB download and no online repo to conveniently browse through.

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This is just a thought and needs verifying by looking at exactly what After Kerbin is doing but:

What you're doing in your code (and what current stock solar panels do) is to divide current solar flux by PG.SolarLuminosityAtHome to find the multiplier to the panel's rated power output.

So far so good, but After Kerbin might be doing something different. They might be patching solar panels (stock only) with uprated power output OR they might be patching them with a powerCurve (FloatCurve) which is how stock solar panels used to determine power output and the stock code still supports that as a fallback. Again though, need to look at exactly what AK is doing here.

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1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

So far so good, but After Kerbin might be doing something different. They might be patching solar panels (stock only) with uprated power output OR they might be patching them with a powerCurve (FloatCurve) which is how stock solar panels used to determine power output and the stock code still supports that as a fallback. Again though, need to look at exactly what AK is doing here.

I don't use the AK mod but I did download it to look at it's code.  It is pretty standard Kopernicus/Alter planet pack.  I compared it to Galileo Planet Pack and did not see any files to alter stock panels.   I use Galileo and do not seem to have issues with SSTU...  so IDK.  I will do some testing in GPP with SSTU Solar parts and see if I can find any info.  

@Shadowmage  I don't know of any planet packs that does not use Kopernicus.  If they are out there I am unaware of them.

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3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

I don't use the AK mod but I did download it to look at it's code.  It is pretty standard Kopernicus/Alter planet pack.  I compared it to Galileo Planet Pack and did not see any files to alter stock panels.   I use Galileo and do not seem to have issues with SSTU...  so IDK.  I will do some testing in GPP with SSTU Solar parts and see if I can find any info.  

@Shadowmage  I don't know of any planet packs that does not use Kopernicus.  If they are out there I am unaware of them.

Yeah me too and it's also not patching PhysicsGlobals at all which is what it has to do to adjust solar flux. (PG.SolarLuminosityAtHome)

(which means no solar panels are getting any kind of boost here)

 

Edited by Starwaster
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9 hours ago, Pappystein said:

I don't know of any planet packs that does not use Kopernicus.  If they are out there I am unaware of them.

You are likely correct -- I don't think they exist -- more specifically I was looking for some method to replicate the issue in stock via changing of game-settings / patching globals files, or even poking at stuff via a simple custom plugin.

 

I'll gladly fix any issues in this area, as long as I know what to fix :)  So if you guys run into something, please let me know.

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38 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

I'll gladly fix any issues in this area, as long as I know what to fix :)  So if you guys run into something, please let me know.

I will re-state my earlier statement... I think any issues between After Kerbin and SSTU are the cause of After Kerbin.    But thanks for being open to trying to solve problems with other mods!

 

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1 hour ago, Anders Kerman said:

Just wondering if vehicles with sstu parts just floating is normal, and or if this is known to be caused by certain mods.

?

Pics?

(not normal)

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4 hours ago, Anders Kerman said:

Just wondering if vehicles with sstu parts just floating is normal, and or if this is known to be caused by certain mods.

As requested, more information would be needed in order to determine the cause or even what is going on.  Screenshots, log files, etc.

(but no, that doesn't sound normal; and yes, entirely possible there are mod conflicts, or even just bugs)

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5 hours ago, Anders Kerman said:

Just wondering if vehicles with sstu parts just floating is normal, and or if this is known to be caused by certain mods.

I've encountered this when messing around with rescaled or customized SSTU stuff - I think because it was calculating mass of part as zero or negative, which causes floating/broken physics. Are you using anything that modifies SSTU such as Realism Overhaul?

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On 2/28/2019 at 12:59 AM, Pappystein said:

So I am was building a massive station in Space around Gael in a Galileo Planet Pack 2.5x Rescale game.   

That one uses Kopernicus, right?

Did you find a way to have it run on 1.6, or are you running your game on 1.4? 

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4 minutes ago, PTNLemay said:

That one uses Kopernicus, right?

Did you find a way to have it run on 1.6, or are you running your game on 1.4? 

Latest release runs fine in 1.6.1 as far as I can tell

Lots of people say it does not but It seems A-O-K to me.

Edited by Pappystein
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@Pappystein
I just checked, it looks like Kopernicus did update for 1.6.1 (hooray for that).  But Sigma is still back on 1.3.1.  And Galileo Planet pack is on 1.4.5.

Anyway, I won't bog down this thread with an unrelated discussion.  I'll have to check it out myself.  Thanks.  I've wanted to get back into KSP for months now, but I've been waiting for a functional planet-rescale mod that updates to work with the latest version of the game.

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On 3/1/2019 at 3:57 PM, Shadowmage said:

You are likely correct -- I don't think they exist -- more specifically I was looking for some method to replicate the issue in stock via changing of game-settings / patching globals files, or even poking at stuff via a simple custom plugin.

 

I'll gladly fix any issues in this area, as long as I know what to fix :)  So if you guys run into something, please let me know.

It's not really a big deal. The panels have their normal output, which is ok. It's not like the higher Power output is essential. 

I just saw that the stock panels and those of near future and probes plus all seem to get their higher output. But this is something not many people will encounter since it's just one of the many planet packs.

I did check the SSTU in my 2.5x scaled stock system and the generated power seems to work fine with the scaling so it's probably an issue specific to After Kerbin. 

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