What do we know about the RemoteTech/AntennaRange-alike in 1.1?

[godefroi]

I know some information was posted, but I don't remember what the primary sources were (development notes, or squadcasts, or ...?). Does anyone remember?

[Red Iron Crown]

From memory:

- No lightspeed delay

- No network needed around Kerbin

- Four new antennas

- Planets affect line of sight

- Kerbin's tracking range is upgradeable

- Range limits are not additive, i.e. the lesser of the antenna range and tracking center range is the limit.

[Remkeau]

Please see: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/350-Development-Relay

[Fearless Son]

Also, planetary occlusion is not absolute, it gets "fuzzy" around the edges. Sufficiently small moons for example might not block signals the way a larger planet might, going over a small hill will not necessarily block the signal, etc.

[mikegarrison]

Also, planetary occlusion is not absolute, it gets "fuzzy" around the edges. Sufficiently small moons for example might not block signals the way a larger planet might, going over a small hill will not necessarily block the signal, etc.

Diffraction.

[Axelord FTW]

From memory:

- No lightspeed delay

Guess I'll stick with remotetech.

Delayed fly-by-wire is seriously the most fun thing ever. Planing whole encounters or landings without a connection is TIGHT!

[peachoftree]

We might know more by the end of today #1.1AnnouncementToday

[godefroi]

Unless 1.1 ends up being the U5 update alone, and all new features got pushed into a future update.

[StarStreak2109]

Guess I'll stick with remotetech.

Delayed fly-by-wire is seriously the most fun thing ever. Planing whole encounters or landings without a connection is TIGHT!

That is your prerogative. There are many who feel the challenge of RT is too much for them. I am one of them, even though I would like to have something like RT lite...

[Pixel of Life]

That is your prerogative. There are many who feel the challenge of RT is too much for them. I am one of them, even though I would like to have something like RT lite...

FYI, the RemoteTech config allows you to do things like disabling the signal delay.

[problemecium]

#1.1AnnouncementToday? Is this just hyping or has someone tweeted/blogged/posted something?

[Alshain]

#1.1AnnouncementToday? Is this just hyping or has someone tweeted/blogged/posted something?

Last week in Squadcast, Maxmaps eluded to something this new week in Squadcast. Historically that hasn't been a guarantee of new info. More than likely he was referring to the 64-bit version he commented on his personal twitter... but there still may be something new tonight.

[tater]

I don't think that "difficulty" options in RT actually make much sense since the game lacks the tools real spacecraft have to deal with signal delay, etc. Programming the probe? Why not just make a series of maneuver nodes, then download them to the probe (LOS and delay taken into account), then the probe executes the nodes unless you send an override before it does so? What about things like radar altimters firing retrorockets for landing, etc, etc?

Without that, having LOS matter is OK, as certainly is antenna range (really more of a S/N issue, but however they want to abstract it).

[CalculusWarrior]

Unless 1.1 ends up being the U5 update alone, and all new features got pushed into a future update.

I believe general opinion by Squad is that things are on track to have the Unity 5 update and the new features update be one. (the Unity 5 update would have been called 1.0.5 if it was seperate, similar to the 0.18.4 update for Unity 4.3)

[panzer1b]

I like the idea of this, but i am sad it will kill my droid fighters comopletely since well, they are supposed to be DROIDS, not DRONES, and KSP doesnt seem to care about ai vs remote controlled probes! We could use one or two high tech tree droid brain cores that are AI controlled, and not really "probes" in the normal state, but are basically pilotless AI controlled vessels.

That said, aside from loosing the ability to do unmanned stuff at long range on the dark side of a planet or whatnot, its a good idea to limit the probes to realistic ranges and LOS (and itll give antenas a actual purpose besides looking like cannons on droid fighters). I just hoping that life support doesnt get into stock, as thatll kill off both manned and unmanned missions completely and make the game not fun at all.

[peachoftree]

#1.1AnnouncementToday? Is this just hyping or has someone tweeted/blogged/posted something?

kasper mentioned it in the Xbox one announcement article

[gsarducci]

Guess I'll stick with remotetech.

Delayed fly-by-wire is seriously the most fun thing ever. Planing whole encounters or landings without a connection is TIGHT!

Is there a PRACTICAL TO USE computer to be able to program a probe to execute complex tasks autonomously? I've seen a couple of things that are kind of like that, but were so incredibly complex (KOS Scriptable Autopilot System... I don't want to learn an entire programming language to extend a bloody antenna) or too inaccurate (RT programming) to be practical...

I LOVE the realism of the signal delay, but as the other person said, we lack sufficient tools to properly program out probes without direct intervention.

[Axelord FTW]

Is there a PRACTICAL TO USE computer to be able to program a probe to execute complex tasks autonomously? I've seen a couple of things that are kind of like that, but were so incredibly complex (KOS Scriptable Autopilot System... I don't want to learn an entire programming language to extend a bloody antenna) or too inaccurate (RT programming) to be practical...

I LOVE the realism of the signal delay, but as the other person said, we lack sufficient tools to properly program out probes without direct intervention.

RT2 comes with a flight computer.

Which includes all of the attitude hold and more (similar to MJ's SmartAs.s) and a maneuver executor (will auto-manage already existing maneuvers).

You can add delay to orders so they will activate after a specific time (ex: deploying the parachutes after a re-entry but before hitting the ground all of which without active control).

The computer will store order to activate whatever you want depending on the light-lag and you can add specific delay times. Attitude hold is pretty straightforward. (Prog, Retrog, Nm+, Nm-, Rd+, Rd- for orbit, target, surface and some more).

Yesterday, I managed to land a probe on Eve without active control.

While I still had a connection, I did the following.

RCS my PE down into the atmo.

Set to hold ground velocity prograde (should have been retrograde but the probe core was upside down).

Armed my RealChute drogues and parachutes (which were set before launch).

Set all of my experiements (4x thermo and baro) to activate. One of each Pe-1min, Pe, Pe+1min, Pe+2min

Set my heat shield (with a TR-2V Stack Decoupler) to detach at Pe+4min

Set my landing gear for Pe+4min5sec to lower

Set to kill rotation for Pe+5min30sec (so it doesn't spaz out on the ground trying to follow my previous attitude set)

Set my solar panels to open at some time after the landing (I set Pe+10min)

Set my Communotron 16 to open at the same time

Probe lost connection soon after reentry. Everything went well and I had a probe on the ground with stored data for high up in the atmo and low in the atmo (2 of each for each experiment). Mother probe passed overhead after a full day and was able to transmit all the data plus some more I gathered on the ground.

[razark]

Is there a PRACTICAL TO USE computer to be able to program a probe to execute complex tasks autonomously? I've seen a couple of things that are kind of like that, but were so incredibly complex (KOS Scriptable Autopilot System... I don't want to learn an entire programming language to extend a bloody antenna) or too inaccurate (RT programming) to be practical...

You want programming, but you don't want it to be complex, and you don't want to to be too simple.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're asking for. Can you please be more descriptive of what you would like? I don't know what middle ground between KOS and RT you'd want.

[Alshain]

Is there a PRACTICAL TO USE computer to be able to program a probe to execute complex tasks autonomously? I've seen a couple of things that are kind of like that, but were so incredibly complex (KOS Scriptable Autopilot System... I don't want to learn an entire programming language to extend a bloody antenna) or too inaccurate (RT programming) to be practical...

I LOVE the realism of the signal delay, but as the other person said, we lack sufficient tools to properly program out probes without direct intervention.

As far as I know your choices are RemoteTech, MechJeb, and KOS. Only that last one is capable of executing many commands in succession automatically.

Now here is a question I came up with. If we have to set up networks outside Kerbin, does that mean we are going to get an orbital period readout in stock? I mean, it's required to setup a reliable network, there is absolutely no other way to keep a network at stable distance without it. So are they going to give us that readout or force stock users to rely on mods? It would be kind of strange to implement a feature that can't be used at all without a mod.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Alshain

[Sharpy]

One more thing about the new stock: A pilot in a craft (orbiter) with adequate antenna can replace the tracking center connection and guide probes from the orbit regardless of connectivity with KSC. (kerbed ground stations possible too; e.g. land a relay with a pilot and an antenna on Ike to guide probes on Duna.)

Also, top upgrade of KSC tracking station will give almost infinite antenna range; only restricted by occlusions.

[Axelord FTW]

As far as I know your choices are RemoteTech, MechJeb, and KOS. Only that last one is capable of executing many commands in succession automatically.

Untrue, RT has a flight computer and let you store and stack commands. Only with a timer, though. So, if you want X to activate from anything other than a set time, then KOS is your best bet.

[Red Iron Crown]

Now here is a question I came up with. If we have to set up networks outside Kerbin, does that mean we are going to get an orbital period readout in stock? I mean, it's required to setup a reliable network, there is absolutely no other way to keep a network at stable distance without it. So are they going to give us that readout or force stock users to rely on mods? It would be kind of strange to implement a feature that can't be used at all without a mod.

I'm not against more data in the game at all, but you don't need an orbital period display to set up a reliable network. Just ensure that the sum of Ap and Pe for each sat is the same, that has the same effect (period being proportional to SMA).

[John FX]

I can see a case for multiple non linear triggers for actions having merit and also being implemented in a way that is much more simple than KOS yet only slightly more complicated than RT2.

If for example instead of just a pure timer, if altitude, velocity and pressure (and other triggers I am sure) could be used to trigger events then the interface would not need to be much more complicated than a pure timer but would expand the usability of the flight computer a great deal.

There could be linear events such as `in X seconds arm parachute` followed by `in X+10 seconds deploy landing gear` or non linear triggers such as `altitude<20km log temperature`

IMHO This would more accurately model an unmanned probe acting on its own programming when out of signal without having to go the full kOs route.

It would seem to be crunch time again. One previous crunch time was stock versions of DRE and FAR meaning fairings and heatshields also had to become stock.

Now when your unmanned probe can be out of signal range, a basic flight computer would seem to be necessary in stock. Some people will not want this but if you can be out of signal which implies out of control then it will be quite essential.

"The first feature is probe telemetry. With this, a probe must establish a connection back to Kerbin or another ‘control point’ via an antenna part in order to operate - be controlled by the player, or active in any way."

It seems plain to me that alongside the gameplay mechanic of not having direct control of a probe, the probe must be capable of some autonomous action in a similar way that a more realistic aero model requires heatshields and fairings.

EDIT :

For one example, most capture burns that I do are on the far side of bodies which means that without some form of automated control (or manual control with no signal) there will be no unmanned probes attaining orbit around planets on their own, a kerbal will have to be there to control it to allow this.

As Squad have said there will be no flight computer this means that the gameplay I like (which is to send unmanned probes to bodies before sending a manned mission to map, scan and provide a signal relay) will be hideously nerfed to the point of removing a lot of fun from the game.

Edited August 24, 2015 by John FX

[tater]

You want programming, but you don't want it to be complex, and you don't want to to be too simple.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're asking for. Can you please be more descriptive of what you would like? I don't know what middle ground between KOS and RT you'd want.

We have a method for programming complex maneuvers for spacecraft in stock, it's called a maneuver node. There is no reason for a probe flight computer to be more complex than this. Make m-node, m-node is uploaded to probe (meaning the node must be at least _light-lag_ seconds ahead of the craft), probe executes m-node at the right time. Ideally all this should be able to happen out of focus.

Landing is trickier.