1.1 and my probes....

[KerikBalm]

So I read this:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/350-Development-Relay

But I still have some questions... mostly I'm worried about losing my probes by not being able to do capture maneuvers.

With this, a probe must establish a connection back to Kerbin or another ‘control point’ via an antenna part in order to operate - be controlled by the player, or active in any way. These control points are the planet Kerbin, or a craft with an antenna, a pilot Kerbal, and optionally a large probe core.

So, if I send out a vessel contolled by a large probe core, it needs no antenna, it operates autonomously as if it were crewed?

Could I already send out a large probe core controlled vessel with the largest antenna available under 1.0 as a "rescue control point" for my probes approaching Jool now (1.1 will hit before they reach Jool, I'm sure)?

In the picture they have a pic of an antenna from the asteroid day mod, will that antenna be included/updated to work with this new system?

As a player upgrades their tracking station, the range of Kerbin’s Deep Space Network will increase, eventually allowing it to receive signals all the way from Eeloo’s closest approach to Kerbin - similar to New Horizon’s range.

The closest approach of Eeloo is closer than Jool, so Jool is out of range?

Will a simple Communotron 16 be adequate for anything in range of the tracking station?

Anything works as within range of the tracking station, and beyond that, you only need an antenna that reaches the nearest control point/relay? Is my understanding correct?

Presumably that range depends on its relative position to Kerbin as well.

Will Jool be in range sometimes and not others? (ie same side of the sun, or different sides?

The distance between Jool and Kerbin varies between about 4 and 7 kAU.

What are we to infer from the Eeloo reference? a range of <4 kAU? a range of <7kAU?

To go along with this we’ve also modeled three new advanced antenna parts to serve as relay dishes. They’re heavier than existing antennas, but offer the feature of automated network relaying.

So this means that none of the current antennas can relay signals? I guess they'll just have longer ranges?

My Jool probe missions are doomed?

I wanted to send probes before sending manned spacecraft... oh well, they'll be out of range, must send a 2.5m diameter vessel with a large probe core for that then?

A Moho probe is also likely to be doomeed by occulusion by the sun :/

I wonder what the odds of my duna operation being in range and in line of sight.... :/

[jwenting]

So, if I send out a vessel contolled by a large probe core, it needs no antenna, it operates autonomously as if it were crewed?

no, it needs an antenna, a Kerbal, and OPTIONALLY a large probe core. So unless the text is wrong it only works if you have a manned craft with an antenna which may or may not have a large probe core.

Will a simple Communotron 16 be adequate for anything in range of the tracking station?

if it works anything like AntennaRange or RemoteTech (and there's no reason to assume it doesn't) you'll need bigger antennas as you get further from home. The whip antenna will only serve you in low Kerbin orbit unless there's a relay station with a bigger antenna nearby.

[KerikBalm]

no, it needs an antenna, a Kerbal, and OPTIONALLY a large probe core. So unless the text is wrong it only works if you have a manned craft with an antenna which may or may not have a large probe core.

If it needs a Kerbal, and the probe core is completely optional, then the large core is just useless extra weight and utterly pointless.

I applied the principle of charity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity

and read it as a control point is something with a Kerbal or a large probe core - that a large probe core can replace the Kerbal

To connect to the control point, the control point needs an antenna. The thing is if a large probe core is a control point itself, it shouldn't need an antenna to connect to itself.

if it works anything like AntennaRange or RemoteTech (and there's no reason to assume it doesn't)

There are plenty of reasons to assume it does, just like the ISRU system was significantly different from the Karbonite mod and they've already said they are simplifying it, and already pointed out numerous distinctions.

[jwenting]

If it needs a Kerbal, and the probe core is completely optional, then the large core is just useless extra weight and utterly pointless.

In RemoteTech it needs both (in fact it needs 6 Kerbals, a large probe core, and an antenna) to act as a control station.

Maybe the reference is to that.

[Pax Kerbana]

I am very un-optimistic about this. Unless there is some way to program the probe this will not turn out well. Because Kerbals are smart enough to build rockets but too stupid to build a programmable computer.

The range thing is just plain ridiculous. There is a probe out past Pluto that is transmitting high def at 5 watts.

More like Kerbal RC Klub 1.1

Edited August 25, 2015 by Pax Kerbana

[Geschosskopf]

IIRC, the whole probe control thing is an option. The radio links are for transmitting data. Could be wrong, though.

[John FX]

So as far as I understand, the most optimistic reading is that you will need a large probe core to be able to do a capture burn on the far side of a planet or moon, where you are mostly out of signal.

That is pretty much every interplanetary capture burn.

It`s every burn I do capturing at Mun at least.

As I like to send probes before kerbals, am I now to be restricted to using a single probe core out of the many usable currently?

weak.

[Axelord FTW]

Yeah, I'Ve read through the article/post a few times and while I think it's nice to see probes getting some love the features themselves are not shaping up.

In some way, it's almost as if they decided to implement RemoteTech but only went as far as decided to look more like. Or something.

In short, it's not looking up. People who have been using RT will stick to it (since the to-be vanilla features sounds like a step-back) and I'm sure a lot of people who haven't tried RT will probably do the switch sometime soon after they discover the whole thing is lackluster.

[AndyMt]

If it is possible (and I very much hope so), I'll simply switch the whole thing off in the debug menu or the "difficulty" settings. It would be ok for me to having to upgrade the Tracking Station to be able to control probes further away.

[AG5BPilot]

So as far as I understand, the most optimistic reading is that you will need a large probe core to be able to do a capture burn on the far side of a planet or moon, where you are mostly out of signal.

There's a way to do the orbits such that the insertion burns are (almost) always in communications range:

Note that I'm currently playing with RemoteTech and ScanSat...

I tend to target my capture burns for polar orbits rather than equatorial orbits. This has several advantages:

1) For ScanSat, I'm in a good mapping orbit to begin with.

2) For landing, either probes or manned missions, the orbit is guaranteed to eventually pass over any spot on the body being orbited, whether it's a specific biome, anomaly, pre-existing base, etc.

3) For RemoteTech, equatorial orbits will always give you a blackout period where the body being orbited is between you and Kerbin. For polar orbits, for most of the year, there's no such blackout period unless the orbit is very low.

4) Similarly, for solar powered spacecraft, an equatorial orbit always has an eclipse period, while a polar orbit will have no eclipses during most of the year, again, depending on the orbital height. (Note that if you're orbiting a moon rather than a planet you may still get planetary blackouts or eclipses even in a high polar orbit.)

Using polar orbits makes it easier to keep the communications links intact. Usually when you reach your target, you're moving in the same direction as the target, so a polar orbit is close to parallel to the body's own orbit, and your insertion burn is in view of both Kerbin (for communications) and Kerbol (for solar power).

[User Unrelated]

Well, it did say that the occlusion angle would be user-settable?

Who knows how high of an equatorial orbit you'd need to keep comms with fuzzy occlusion, anyway!

And well... if you want to send a bunch of stuff to low orbit somewhere, why not just send a small relay probe into a polar orbit, first? You'd have to do the same thing with RT...

I'm definitely excited for this feature, though.