A Thread for Writers to talk about Writing

[0111narwhalz]

RE tags, I'm not sure how to tag my stories. Nothing particularly taggable on either, except perhaps "sci-fi" or "future" on KF.

RE formatting FUBARs, they seem to be very odd. They're not logical, consistent, or even present in all posts. I just went through and fixed them all manually.

I don't really have much of an opinion on the whitespace thing, except that I wish I could fit more onto this screen; it's pretty big. And the buttons can be difficult to find sometimes, too.

Oyes, and I can't seem to edit text size in replies, so I can't even fix the weird tiny paragraphs in KF. Grr...

Edited November 30, 2015 by 0111narwhalz

[Mister Dilsby]

1 hour ago, KSK said:

How are people finding the formatting? A lot of my punctuation seems to be borked, especially speech marks and ellipses, which has mucked up substantial chunks of First Flight. I'll leave it for a bit in case it is something that can be repaired across the forum but after that... gonna be a long clean-up job. 

This makes me very glad all my text is in the images--I would go nuts if my previous content got that messed up. Good luck! Well, there are a couple of good things about the new system w.r.t. writers, which I mention in the interest of positivism. One is that you can see how many people liked repped each post--thus giving the writer better feedback about which installments did the best with their readers. Also you can see how many people follow your thread. I'm hoping we find lots of other cool stuff to offset the headaches.

39 minutes ago, 0111narwhalz said:

RE tags, I'm not sure how to tag my stories. Nothing particularly taggable on either, except perhaps "sci-fi" or "future" on KF.

You should see a text box input near the top if you edit the OP.

[KSK]

The follower count will be interesting for sure. I used to get a rough idea of that from dividing total views by post count, but I'm not sure how accurate that was.

Tagging - confirmed what Kuzzter said. Took me a fair bit of fiddling around to work it out.

[CalculusWarrior]

4 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

Oooh boy this new forum is confusing--I do hope all the writers make it back OK and continue to put up great content. I don't know how important Tags will be in the new system, but I put them on my fiction threads anyway and might recommend others do the same, to let people find our stuff more easily. All my stories are tagged 'kerbfleet' and 'graphic novel'. In as much as these are also Mission Reports I tagged E:O0 with 'eve return' and D,OB! with 'duna'. Hm, come to think of it I should also tag Jool Odyssey with 'jool 5' and 'WIP'.

I did not know of the tags, those should be helpful! As for my story, the BBCode formatting is of course screwed up, as well as the original post in the thread is just gone, so I've contacted the admins to see if I can get it back. I may have to start anew though.

[Ten Key]

Well, somehow the forum ate my password. Thankfully the password reset function still seems to be working. 

Unfortunately, I have at least one full chapter in my story thread that is completely missing. The chapters that survived all have formatting issues of one form or another. Bleh. I figured this would happen so I saved all of it, but what a mess. 

There's no "preview post" option anymore, is there? 

 

[0111narwhalz]

1 hour ago, Ten Key said:

There's no "preview post" option anymore, is there? 

 

Nope. "Why preview your post when it's WYSIWYG?"

Incidentally, I seem to have been spared of both post- and password-devouring, so woo. At least on any important posts.

[Generalstarwars333]

On 11/30/2015, 11:24:23, Ten Key said:

Well, somehow the forum ate my password. Thankfully the password reset function still seems to be working. 

Unfortunately, I have at least one full chapter in my story thread that is completely missing. The chapters that survived all have formatting issues of one form or another. Bleh. I figured this would happen so I saved all of it, but what a mess. 

There's no "preview post" option anymore, is there? 

 

The forum at my password too! Good thing I'd laced mine with iron to devour its essence and starwars this isn't the bartimaeus trilogy, you've finished re-reading that stop referencing it. I have no idea where my two stories went. I have a third one in the works that has actual dialogue that doesn't feel awkward or exist solely because I wanted to sound like I knew stuff. Unfortunately, the story is about a paragraph long so far, and more based on a lego landship I made with kerbal characters (real lego minifigs wouldn't fit in it, despite its size), so I'm not sure if it would fit in the fanworks section here or in some sort of steampunk thing. It might even be classified as extremely vague Brotherband fanfic, since I'm kind of using that for the dialogue...but hey, 2-3 characters mentioned within the first paragraph, almost as many as I've had in both my big stories combined! And I'm not counting A fine flight or my other attempt at better dialogue...but yeah. stuffs. I can't think of anythign else to say so I'm saying vague things like stuffs as if I have some idea of what stuffs is supposed to mean.

[Generalstarwars333]

I found my story of the laythean conflict on page 7! and added tags. The new forums apparently doesn't understand the concept of an apostrophe. I'll eventually have to get around to fixing it. Also, the font changes a lot in some places, which is weird.

[steuben]

I was looking at my drug store's book rack and saw "The Year of Living Biblically."  My next thought was "The Year of Living Kerbally". As I continue to think about such a book, it tends towards YAML, Yet Another Mission Log, territory.   Anybody have any suggestions for a new take on mission logs? 

 

 

[Mister Dilsby]

3 minutes ago, steuben said:

I was looking at my drug store's book rack and saw "The Year of Living Biblically."  My next thought was "The Year of Living Kerbally". As I continue to think about such a book, it tends towards YAML, Yet Another Mission Log, territory.   Anybody have any suggestions for a new take on mission logs? 

It's tough, yeah--I really do try to read everything, but let's face it, most new YAMLs (great term, by the way!) that start from Day 0 of career mode run out of enthusiasm and stop updating before they even really get going. I think this is because everybody who's played the game (and therefore, every reader on this site) has already done the first suborbit, first orbit, first Mun landing, etc. So, writers looking for acclaim and thousands of replikes don't get it, and they give up.

Now if you want to write for the sake of having a record of your missions, who cares if anyone reads it? But if you want people to read your mission logs they have to find something in the log that isn't in theirs. I think that means doing a little worldbuilding, and it means visiting planets and moons outside of the Kerbin system. The world you build can be anything--the pop fiction mashup that is Kerbfleet, the dark mystery that is Emiko Station, the relentless doomsday timer that is Plan Kappa Omega. I don't think anyone can give you that, you have to make it up for yourself. Your "year of living kerbally" might just be the root of a concept no one has seen before.

But then, the missions. Everyone's been to LKO, almost everyone has been to the Mun and Minmus, but I think people tune in to stories about other planets and moons for ideas on how to get there themselves (because not everyone knows how to do that) And since your solution for getting to those distant worlds will likely be unique (most are), it will be interesting. Good luck!

[Hotaru]

4 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

It's tough, yeah--I really do try to read everything, but let's face it, most new YAMLs (great term, by the way!) that start from Day 0 of career mode run out of enthusiasm and stop updating before they even really get going. I think this is because everybody who's played the game (and therefore, every reader on this site) has already done the first suborbit, first orbit, first Mun landing, etc. So, writers looking for acclaim and thousands of replikes don't get it, and they give up.

I've been thinking about this problem, since I'm considering doing a "YAML" career diary for my next save too. I notice the mission logs that I get into following tend to be ones that have some distinguishing aspects beyond just another KSP career. My two favorites at the moment (not counting Kerbfleet or Plan Kappa, since I tend to think of them as comics first and mission logs second) are Ussari Space Program and Forgotten Space Program, both of which have some more interesting aspects than just the usual career mode progression in terms of both gameplay and storytelling. Both have good deliveries too, which helps keep my interest.

[KSK]

One other thing that I've noticed about YAMLs is that, when they do go for world building, it often hews quite closely to human history and the motivations for human spaceflight programs. There is a war, there is a brilliant scientist who worked on weapons during the war and helps to start a space program, there is a space race based on national prestige... etc.

None of that is at all bad mind you, it's just something else that most people on the forum are aware of or have seen before in another YAML and so doesn't immediately grab their attention.

Edited January 26, 2016 by KSK

[Just Jim]

36 minutes ago, steuben said:

I was looking at my drug store's book rack and saw "The Year of Living Biblically."  My next thought was "The Year of Living Kerbally". As I continue to think about such a book, it tends towards YAML, Yet Another Mission Log, territory.   Anybody have any suggestions for a new take on mission logs? 

This is exactly the reason I'm writing Emiko Station the way I am.  When I first started writing it out, it was just a mission log, and I thought to myself, "boring..."
But because I was starting about 5 years into a career game, with a big ol' asteroid to play around with, I decided to jazz it up and do a fan-fiction story instead. 

Since then I've had all sorts of advice and help from a few of the other authors on here about getting it really tuned in, and I'm all sorts of happy how it's come out so far.  It's still my career game, but now it's gotten a life of it's own as a story as well, and is much more fun to write than just a mission report.

The only I would advise is you really need to think of something fun and original and unusual if your going to write a fiction piece.  Take your time and think of something people would really want to read.  If you have a favorite author, try and think of how they would do it. 

[SaturnianBlue]

40 minutes ago, KSK said:

One other thing that I've noticed about YAMLs is that, when they do go for world building, it often hews quite closely to human history and the motivations for human spaceflight programs. There is a war, there is a brilliant scientist who worked on weapons during the war and helps to start a space program, there is a space race based on national prestige... etc.

None of that is at all bad mind you, it's just something else that most people on the forum are aware of or have seen before in another YAML and so doesn't immediately grab their attention.

That reminds me of a career story that's been in the works for months, but hasn't really gotten anywhere because it uses a lot of mods. An interesting idea I have for it is to potentially go into alternate history and explore the What If? Of human history and integrate that into a plot.

Edited January 26, 2016 by SaturnianBlue

[Ten Key]

2 hours ago, Just Jim said:

This is exactly the reason I'm writing Emiko Station the way I am.  When I first started writing it out, it was just a mission log, and I thought to myself, "boring..."

This was more or less my experience. Farlight started as a few pages of screenshots with really long captions, and at some point I realized that no one was going to be interested long term. So I took stock and jumped into the deep end of the pool. And while there have been times when it's felt like I was going to drown, it's never been boring.  

It's all well and good to attract a ton of readers, but ultimately the biggest thing is to find something that keeps you coming back for more. Frustration is part and parcel, but if you ever get bored with your own project, that's pretty much the end. 

[steuben]

Hmm... that might be the answer to  the slightly different question I had intended to ask. I had been also thinking of it being YALP, Yet Another Let's Play.They have a lot of the same problems as a YAML. 

So let's take a full set of mission logs slice them up and a full run of a let's play and slice it up. Then interleave the two. Similar in style to what  Ian Stewart, Jack Cohen, and Terry Pratchett did with "The Science of Discworld". Any thoughts on this approach?

[Sanic]

Is there a good balance or rule of thumb for separate pictures and text? I'm always worried I don't have enough of each one.

[KSK]

5 hours ago, Sanic said:

Is there a good balance or rule of thumb for separate pictures and text? I'm always worried I don't have enough of each one.

I'm not sure there is one. However, if it helps, I've read very good examples here that cover pretty much the whole range of options from 'classic' after action reports consisting of nothing but screenshots and film script style dialogue, all the way through to stories with no pictures at all. So I'd say go with whatever you find easiest to write.

If you want a couple of examples, I always liked Patupi's fics which I would consider to be  illustrated stories - the pictures are nice but the writing would pretty much stand on its own. For a more recent example, it's pretty hard to beat Just Jim's saga of Emiko Station. That's a bit more picture heavy than Patupi's work and the pictures tell a little more of the story, although there's plenty of good stuff in the text too! Thinking about it, that might be the kind of balance you're looking for.

 

Edit:  Completely off-topic but Jim and Kuzzter's screenshots and craft designs are really giving me the KSP itch again. Not a lot of point starting a new game this close to 1.1 but I sure can't wait for 1.1 to hit.

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by KSK

[KSK]

That last post got me thinking, so I thought I'd throw a question out there to the thread.

Encouragement vs pestering - is there a good time to give a thread a friendly bump to ask the author how the next bit of writing is coming along? Obviously spam-bumping the thread will be frowned upon by the mods, as will necroposting so some care will be needed but what are folks' views on this in general?

I have to admit, if I'm going to post comments on a story, I'll normally only do so in response to an update from the author. I've always been a bit reluctant to do anything else simply because writing takes time at the best of times and there are so many reasons why that time might be longer than expected. Having a threadful of 'can we haz next chapter now plz. Now? Now? How bout now? PLZZZZZ' style of comments didn't strike me as being terribly helpful to the creative process.

On the other hand - it is nice to be appreciated and to know that people are still out there waiting for the next update, so maybe a bit of judicious bumping would encourage more writers to keep writing. Which would be a good thing!

Is there a happy medium between benign neglect and pestering?

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by KSK

[Sanic]

14 minutes ago, KSK said:

Is there a happy medium between benign neglect and pestering?

I would say one pester per person for every update of reasonable size. If someone does it more than once, it starts to get spammy.

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by Sanic

[Mister Dilsby]

41 minutes ago, KSK said:

Encouragement vs pestering - is there a good time to give a thread a friendly bump to ask the author how the next bit of writing is coming along? Obviously spam-bumping the thread will be frowned upon by the mods, as will necroposting so some care will be needed but what are folks' views on this in general?

Well, there's never a good time to ask me for more pages.  When I have time to, I post daily. When I don't have time, I don't have time.

Conversely, I think it's perfectly OK to comment on a story thread that hasn't been updated in a while if the poster has something relevant to say. Every now and then I get a new comment or a replike on the Duna thread or the Eve thread, from someone who's new to the forum or the stories and is just now seeing them for the first time. That always makes my day. 

[CatastrophicFailure]

I imagine many writers (like me) thrive on feedback. Myself, I've never seen such comments as "pestering," it communicates that someone is interested . Never know when a little jewel like that might encourage an author who's a bit grumpy that day to throw a few more lines down. 

 

But that being said, I would mind the tone of a given thread before nagging too much, as not everyone might see it the same. 

[Ehco Corrallo]

I haven't written anything for KSP, but I've written a lot of other stuff (novels mostly) and I've been looking for a thread like this since I realized that people write long elaborate stories about KSP, and I finally found it. 

Anyway, hello. 

[Mister Dilsby]

30 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

But that being said, I would mind the tone of a given thread before nagging too much, as not everyone might see it the same. 

Exactly. I also thrive on feedback, both positive and otherwise. I think we'd agree that there is a world of difference between a post on an inactive thread that says "Hey, I really hope you continue, because it's a great story and I want to see what happens next!" and a post on an obviously active thread that asks exactly when it's going to be updated again. The writer in the former case might just need some encouragement. The writer in the latter probably needs a break.  

34 minutes ago, Ehco Corrallo said:

Anyway, hello. 

Hello! Yeah, we have a really great writing community with loads of stories to read and follow. Hope we get to see yours sometime!

[KSK]

Hi - and welcome aboard!

You've probably found them already but if you're looking for any of those long, elaborate stories there's a link to an archive thread in my signature that might help. Unfortunately I haven't had time to update it much lately but there's still plenty of material of all shapes, genres and sizes on there.