[WIP, 1.0.5] Stock Replacement Assets 0.4 [25 Feb]

[passinglurker]

I like the yellow stripe, because it seems to be Jebediah Kerman's trademark color. MP being painted yellow probably came out of the fact that Jeb painted all three of his monoprop tanks yellow and C7 Aerospace Division saw that and was like "So Monopropellant is Yellow?"

I made the same observation but found the the benefits of identifying contents and that fact that its essentially a nod to hooj's other pack to outweigh this one aspect of consistency (when does anyone care who the manufacturer is? its not a common thing and its a junk yard mismatched colors seem fitting)

As for the discussion of tankbutts on the engines, I think that having engine parts right into the above section is fine for some engines like the Aerospike and SSME, but not for the LV-T series or the Mainsail and Skipper.

how so? why shoyld we not have such consistency? I should point out that modeling all the engines with the aerospike/ssme's "thickbutts" means that the center of mass will have to be near the top of the part so that it will pivot properly this will have a small but positive effect on flight stability because engines won't pull the center of mass back quite as far.

As for designs, I think the LV-T series could take after the Redstone, Thor, and Jupiter engines. (Redstone is LV-T30 and Thor/Jupiter is LV-T45? Or maybe LV-T30 is Thor and LV-T45 is Jupiter?)

http://heroicrelics.org/info/s-3d/s-3d-overview/a-6-mb-3-s-3d.jpg

In this case, showing all of the engine plumbing would be entirely too much. However, showing the combustion chamber is a must, in my opinion.

All engines that were historically gimbal less and hidden deep inside shrouds? sounds boring how about we avoid constraining this to replicas? as long as it looks like a plausible engine with allowances for polycount and texture saving I don't think the average user would complain

Poodle: Either a short 1.25m Service Propulsion System or a cluster. Not a fan of the Aerospike.

Heck, ditching the dedication to any one particular size might be the best route. Perhaps try not giving the Mainsail or Skipper or Poodle a 2.5m mounting point at all, and see where that goes. It would allow use of the engine clipped into what's above it without a huge ugly disk/butt thing showing.

Size versatility is overrated porkjets soltion as he overhauls the stock parts isn't versatile designs but simply more engines to fill the niches for a given diameter(ie the ssme for high thrust 1.25m). Also multiple nodes is hacky and there are questions about occlusion that might need separate fairing parts. simply put ditching the butts is a fundamental overhaul to how we build rockets that seems outside the scope of a "porkjet-a-like" mod and is better suited for a separate mod.

Early parts ought to, in my opinion, actually look fairly low-tech, but still like they were cleanly executed pieces of engineering and not scrap metal. I especially like the LV-N in the WIP versions of Ven's Stock Revamp, it looks very atompunk.

low tech or high tech is rather vague most people won't notice the difference unless it's an extreme swing between steampunk and B9

[Whirligig Girl]

The problem is with putting them into stack.

It can be traded with multiple nodes, like in Ven's revamp and like in stock heatshields, but this ruins compatibility, can be hacky and can be hard in editor from times to times.

It also can be dealt with by completely ditching engines' shrouds and adding fairing part under them. But - yeah, partcount.

Should make it possible to change which shroud is used via a tweakable. This would allow you to use none, 2.5m, 1.25m, or a variety of adapter fairings.

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Low tech or high tech is rather vague most people won't notice the difference unless it's an extreme swing between steampunk and B9

I am convinced you could make a steampunk parts pack in such a way that it still looks clean and non-junky. But that's besides the point. Look at the difference between the A-4 (V2) rocket engine vs A-7 engine vs Atlas rocket engine vs the J-2 rocket engine. There is a clear difference and the A-4/A-7 engines are clearly lower tech.

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You know what? This whole discussion is missing the point! We need flamboyant orange/grey curved stripes all over the boosters! How else are we meant to make our micro SLS replicas without them?

[Wild Cobra]

http://i.imgur.com/nD9mnDv.png

With all that black paint, are you trying to bake your pilots in the sun?

[Whirligig Girl]

With all that black paint, are you trying to bake your pilots in the sun?

[Wild Cobra]

Interesting.

But I see all those vents, the outer black is designed as a radiator instead.

Why did I forget their color? Must be the passing years since I watched the space program in action.

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

Glad to see this is still going! I like the red striped SRB's, there is already a stock precedent as the sepratron has red stripes, so I'd say go for it as long as you don't leave any yellow ones.

As far as the poodle goes, one approach to the height thing might be to make an Apollo CSM style engine, like KW has; make a more realistic bell and stick the nozzle right up against the engine base, we can pretend the plumbing is all inside. Alternately, you could make the engine as long as you want, and give it a permanent shroud with radial attach enabled so we can mount legs on the engine itself.

Edit: just looked back at the pictures again, kinda like the plain white too, might look good with a grey stripe, but I say stick with the red.

Super Edit: Someone already made the KW suggestion, but the shroud thing might work. If you want to be super fancy you could make it into like a quad 909 with four smaller bells of the right proportions. And I actually like the tank butts, I think the ability to angle the porkjet parts is nice and I don't want to see the end of a fuel tank.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Starbuckminsterfullerton

[passinglurker]

Should make it possible to change which shroud is used via a tweakable. This would allow you to use none, 2.5m, 1.25m, or a variety of adapter fairings.

Not possible without extra plugins and either way is outside the mods scope. It's a stock-a-like mod and 1.25m engines for 1.25m tanks and 2.5m engines for 2.5m tanks is stock-a-like. Going beyond that would drive away the users who were dissatisfied with vens revamp

[NecroBones]

Should make it possible to change which shroud is used via a tweakable. This would allow you to use none, 2.5m, 1.25m, or a variety of adapter fairings.

Not possible without extra plugins

It would definitely take a plugin, but what I think is unclear is whether it can be done with existing plugins. Something I haven't tried is to assign more than one shroud to the same attachment node, and then use FSMeshSwitch or InterstellarMeshSwitch modules to switch out which one is active. It could be worth a shot.

But if it's beyond the scope here, that's a different story.

[nothingSpecial]

I suppose it's better to just make them buttless and let user fight with autoshroud the stock way.

But buttlessness comes at a price - not every tank model design looks good with it.

[passinglurker]

I suppose it's better to just make them buttless and let user fight with autoshroud the stock way.

But buttlessness comes at a price - not every tank model design looks good with it.

Why is that better? If they want buttless for looks why not use Ven's or Fasa instead? if they want buttless cause they find they need clusters why not just add a new engine to fill this niche instead? what's the point in having multiple revamp mods if they all fall into the same gimmicks? This is supposed to make the rocket parts look more like porkjets right? well looking at atomic rockets, the aerospike, and SSME that means tankbutts.

[nothingSpecial]

Because of length of engine. To quote author:

The problem with the Poodle is the length of the model. NovaSilisko has mentioned elsewhere it was made to fit under landing legs, and his technical knowledge of engines wasn't that great at the time. In order to fit an authentic looking vacuum engine in such a small length it would need to be either 1.25m (which Ven does I believe), a cluster, or a truncated aerospike. The problem with an aerospike is the assumption players might make about its capabilities in atmosphere, based on the (incorrect) way the existing stock aerospike worked before 1.0. A cluster would work nicely (someone on Reddit has already pointed out the KSP subreddit sidebar), but also adds roll gimbal to the engine, but that's a minor concern at best.

Keep the suggestions coming!

Cluster is kinda too far away from original Poodle, you know, in terms of aesthetics. That's major minus of Ven's revamp - I want to have conical 1.25m engine, and stock has Terrier, but Ven's revamp doesn't have it.

...Oh, wait.

Another possibility.

Can the Poodle's sphere (combustion chamber?) and small nozzle be turned into, you know, long vacuum nozzle?

It would look like powerful, yet still 1.25m-sized engine on 1.25m-2.5m adapter with 2.5m shroud.

Well, it won't peeserve shape of Poodle exactly, but neither buttless 1.25m/2.5m Poodle will, nor cluster nor aerospike. And it will have needed dimensions, right?

Something like vacuum-rated engine from HGR (I often used it for apolloesque ships with 1.875-2.5m flat adapter, and here is the same principle in one part).

Sure, it is small for its power. But it will be either small or too short.

[passinglurker]

It's hard to make a cone sticking out of a plate look good the cluster like the one on the subreddit side bar captures the original engines essence while filling the space to justify it's width despite its length, and as I've said I'm against shrinking the engine it would require an overhaul to how shrouds are handled that is out side the mods scope.

Sure I'd love it to be a single nozzel but then ever one would be crying for it to lose the butt how would the aero handle having a half diameter engine in the middle of the stack? I imagine it won't go well. So cluster is the way that could satisfy enough of the butthaters while causeing the least number of headaches and unknowns

Edit: that picture from the subreddit sidebar

Edited October 24, 2015 by passinglurker

[nothingSpecial]

Oh. I thought about cluster of much smaller engines. The one similar to pic's would be actually rather good.

[passinglurker]

Also it's a landing engine in real life you want multiple nozzles for an engine out capability when landing just in case.

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Moar moar moar!

[MAFman]

With all the hullabaloo in the last few days over Porkjets fantastic new and revamped aircraft parts, and the impression that the rocket parts are being left in the cold, I decided to try my hand at a stock replacement pack. I do want to do things a little differently than Vens Stock Part Revamp though, in both art style and scope. For example, I will not be touching any aircraft parts whatsoever since the aforementioned Porkjet has done such an incredible job of those himself.

I've set a few basic rules to follow:

• Recognisably the same part
  
• Equal to, or (preferably) smaller memory usage
  
• Equal to, or (preferably) fewer materials per part
  
• Command pods use existing IVA
  
• Uses identical attachment node locations as stock parts (same length)

These are not hard rules and I'll probably break one or two.

Below is a potential Mk1 Pod revamp with a texture that hopefully looks like it would fit alongside Porkjets aircraft parts. Main changes are an extra handle on the hatch itself, the top is exactly 0.625m, and a much less rounded bottom (since there are separate heatshields).

http://i.imgur.com/nD9mnDv.png

I'll be doing these parts roughly in order with the tech tree, starting with the Mk1 Pod, small parachute, RT-5 Flea and maybe the Mystery Goo.

For the fuel tanks and engines, the 1.25m LFO parts will be roughly based around Redstone/Atlas/Thor, fuel tanks using the Redstone livery and Reliant and Swivel based very roughly on the Atlas engines. The RT-5/10 will share a texture based roughly on a Castor 120, the BACC will be slightly different since it's Rockomax branded, and I'm thinking about maybe putting 4 nozzles (like the Minuteman first stage) on either of them.

What do you guys think? Very open to suggestions, especially those with big pictures!

I would LOVE to see this expanded and released! As long as no stats are changed - just the models and textures - well...SHUT UP AND TAKE MY KERBAL FUNDS!

[VenomousRequiem]

I get this odd feeling that this is going to take a very long time to complete...

[Gaalidas]

Considering Ven has been doing things like this for a long time and still never managed to replace many of the stock parts, I would say your "odd feeling" is right on the money, so to speak.

[Gryphorim]

Seeing the previews of 1.0.5 has me psyched for seeing more of this parts pack coming together. Hoojiwana, can we get a WIP of an LFO engine next plz?

[I.O.M.]

Considering Ven has been doing things like this for a long time and still never managed to replace many of the stock parts, I would say your "odd feeling" is right on the money, so to speak.

Many? There are only a handful of parts that haven't been revamped, excluding the mk2 and mk3 parts, which are being left alone.

[hoojiwana]

Seeing the previews of 1.0.5 has me psyched for seeing more of this parts pack coming together. Hoojiwana, can we get a WIP of an LFO engine next plz?

Does the Rapier count?

Will be a standalone part pack after 1.0.5 releases with only this part in it, but will also be included with the updated parts here as a replacement rather than a part. I've made this separately since every other spaceplane part has been redone by Porkjet, and the Rapier will look out of place. Fingers crossed this fits with everything else!

[Poodmund]

The old RAPIER looks as though it has the same kind of inlets as the new modeled Jet engine (ala Pratt & Whitney J58), it would be cool if the remodel could implement this too for the Open/Close cycle modes (doesn't have to animate, thats probably going too far).

New model inlets.

It looks very nice though. Nice level of fidelity. It's very Porkjet'y, you have the style down.

[Beale]

Does the Rapier count?

http://i.imgur.com/QeKYKwo.jpg

Will be a standalone part pack after 1.0.5 releases with only this part in it, but will also be included with the updated parts here as a replacement rather than a part. I've made this separately since every other spaceplane part has been redone by Porkjet, and the Rapier will look out of place. Fingers crossed this fits with everything else!

The Rapier has always been an oddity, much improved!

[Gryphorim]

Really like that new RAPIER

[Beano]

I'm all in favor of omitting all the black and yellow hazard tape to all parts. Squad should hire you next.