hoojiwana

[WIP, 1.0.5] Stock Replacement Assets 0.4 [25 Feb]

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I, uh, meant that it would be worth it for the IVA hatch to be in the wrong place. I have since edited my post for clarity. But if you'd like to do that, go crazy. I'd like to see your take on it.

oh I know what you meant still didn't stop my imagination from running wild :wink:

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Honestly if that decoupler was given a better texture/model and made flush with the rocket, I wouldn't mind it being as big as it is.

That's true, the 3.75m one is pretty big too but because it's black&white and mounts flush it looks just fine.

I dunno cohesiveness certainly has its appeal, and its very efficient with the ram to not just have one diameter of tanks but all the tanks on the same sheet, but it also makes finding the tank you want a pain because they all look the same from the part catalog(I did this a lot when I used vens). Of course we could do what necrobones does with one of his fuel tank mods and just color code the end caps... would that be enough?... I guess I'm just fishing for an excuse to advocate for dark 1.25m tanks(like the mk1pod), shiny bare metal 2.5m tanks(like the current ones but not looking like junky oildrums more like mercury-atlas or early scifi), and light 3.75m tanks (or something like that just so its all easy to tell apart)

Lol that's exactly what my tanks do. I gave each diameter a different number of stripes, but also named them by size so that they are sorted into diameters and can be told apart. I kinda like dark 1.25 tanks. Maybe dark size 1, half and half size 2, and light size 3? Might make a cool transition if you had all three inline.

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Just want to add my support for this. Ven's revamp is great quality, but a little removed from stock aesthetics, but Hoojiwana's RLA pack retains that stock feel. I can't wait to see more of this. Hoojiwana, please don't be shy with the WIP shots.

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Ooh, nice! Do you have any more pictures? Because you need to do more parts. Now.

I have a funny feeling there's a reason development has gone a little quiet. If the Squadcast was accurate (Porkjet being moved to rocket part development), Hoojiwana might not want to waste his time redoing all this stuff :\

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I should note that the aesthetic in the OP strongly reminds me of KSPRC's retextures. Perhaps you could use those for inspiration?

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Sorry for the necro but I'd like to know a progress report since when I was last here. I have high hopes for this!

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This isn't dead! I've simply not felt all that creative lately. I did do some experimentation with the art style though when I made this, but thats some other project. :P You all want to see the stock stuff! And having seen Porkjets updated aerospike I got a little bit inspired again, and decided to move a little away from making things based on real life components, and going forward I'll be aiming to make things more resemble the existing look (with exceptions like the Poodle).

But you guys don't care about all those wordy things, so here's a big picture:

e32pNSA.png

I think the flat white looks best, but also clashes with the scheme Porkjet has (white for LF, black stripe for LFO, yellow stripe for MP). The stock-style yellow also goes against that, so there's also a red option that I've blatantly copied from my RLA SRBs. Thoughts?

Also would love to hear what you guys think regarding engine models, mainly on the issue of tankbutts. Some of you have already mentioned your preferences (which I partly like the idea of, see the first link in the post), but Porkjets aerospike and SSME have been modelled with a section of the engine that insets deeply into the part above, allowing for part rotation without leaving a big gap. I feel that method also fits better with stock KSP than buttless exposed components do.

And how would you guys do the Poodle, keeping in the exact same dimensions as the current model. Cluster? Single 1.25m engine? Big old truncated aerospike (just a bad concept, don't look too deeply at the model)?

Edited by hoojiwana

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Ooh, nice! Do you have any more pictures? Because you need to do more parts. Now.
This isn't dead! I've simply not felt all that creative lately. I did do some experimentation with the art style though when I made this, but thats some other project. :P You all want to see the stock stuff! And having seen Porkjets updated aerospike I got a little bit inspired again, and decided to move a little away from making things based on real life components, and going forward I'll be aiming to make things more resemble the existing look (with exceptions like the Poodle).

But you guys don't care about all those wordy things, so here's a big picture:

http://i.imgur.com/e32pNSA.png

I think the flat white looks best, but also clashes with the scheme Porkjet has (white for LF, black stripe for LFO, yellow stripe for MP). The stock-style yellow also goes against that, so there's also a red option that I've blatantly copied from my RLA SRBs. Thoughts?

Also would love to hear what you guys think regarding engine models, mainly on the issue of tankbutts. Some of you have already mentioned your preferences (which I partly like the idea of, see the first link in the post), but Porkjets aerospike and SSME have been modelled with a section of the engine that insets deeply into the part above, allowing for part rotation without leaving a big gap. I feel that method also fits better with stock KSP than buttless exposed components do.

And how would you guys do the Poodle, keeping in the exact same dimensions as the current model. Cluster? Single 1.25m engine? Big old truncated aerospike (just a bad concept, don't look too deeply at the model)?

Woohoo! Finally!

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And how would you guys do the Poodle, keeping in the exact same dimensions as the current model. Cluster? Single 1.25m engine? Big old truncated aerospike (just a bad concept, don't look too deeply at the model)?

Like KW's SPS, with as large and wide of a bell as you can fit into the stock poodle's dimensions. It's a vacuum service module engine, it needs a vacuum nozzle.

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I vote red for srb's

On tank butts I think size adaptability is over rated and leaves a bunch of questions about how'd they'd interact with the aero. it's more familiar and intuitive to have engines of various nichies dedicated to thier respective diameters.

I'm kinda fond of the poodles round look (and similarly your old also round lv-t5, I scaled her up to 1.25m and now I use her everywhere as a stackable mk55 "thud" :D) that being said and with what I said before about the butts I imagine my opinion of keeping it a single nozzel 2.5m engine would be unpopular. this isn't vens revamp I don't thing it should be too crazy fixing stuff people believe squad did wrong it's just a face lift so I'll support whatever option keeps the poodles diameter be it clusters, aero spikes, or stylish retro 50's streamlined shrouds etc..

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My request for engines is for them to have appropriate nozzle bell for atmo/vacuum optimisation.

I realise this would make poodle and terrier/lv909 longer bodied, but maybe if they were clusters or aerospikes they could be shorter?

edit: Also, I vote white SRBs, as it is in keeping with the larger stock SRBs and looks like SRBs that a professional Space agency would use.

Edited by Gryphorim

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I think the yellow SRBs are awesome, but maybe blue? The red is like the Hybrid Rocket Boosters by Lord Aurelius, so maybe have some HRBs (same dimensions, more efficient, more expensive, and have Oxidizer as well) be red. If you have HRBs at all.

HRB's are outside the mods scope also real ones don't scale well. they won't get larger that 0.625m, or maybe the flea if used in a pancake configuration. pretty sure hooj's red RLA boosters came before that HRB mod heck I'm half sure even ven uses red boosters. Considering hooj is the one making this it would make sense if they were consistent visually with other mods he's made, and following that logic the blue stripe has already been claimed by monopropellant engines.

Edited by passinglurker

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Like KW's SPS, with as large and wide of a bell as you can fit into the stock poodle's dimensions. It's a vacuum service module engine, it needs a vacuum nozzle.
My request for engines is for them to have appropriate nozzle bell for atmo/vacuum optimisation.

I realise this would make poodle and terrier/lv909 longer bodied, but maybe if they were clusters or aerospikes they could be shorter?

The problem with the Poodle is the length of the model. NovaSilisko has mentioned elsewhere it was made to fit under landing legs, and his technical knowledge of engines wasn't that great at the time. In order to fit an authentic looking vacuum engine in such a small length it would need to be either 1.25m (which Ven does I believe), a cluster, or a truncated aerospike. The problem with an aerospike is the assumption players might make about its capabilities in atmosphere, based on the (incorrect) way the existing stock aerospike worked before 1.0. A cluster would work nicely (someone on Reddit has already pointed out the KSP subreddit sidebar), but also adds roll gimbal to the engine, but that's a minor concern at best.

Keep the suggestions coming!

HRB's are outside the mods scope also real ones don't scale well. they won't get larger that 0.625m, or maybe the flea if used in a pancake configuration. pretty sure hooj's red RLA boosters came before that HGR mod heck I'm half sure even ven uses red boosters. Considering hooj is the one making this it would make sense if they were consistent visually with other mods he's made, and following that logic the blue stripe has already been claimed by monopropellant engines.

Based on discussion here and elsewhere, what about a compromise between the red and white? Blue might be oxidiser in KSP already, judging by the spherical tank on the launch pad, and the tanks in the Mk1 pod IVA (oxygen tanks for life support). The RLA monoprop engines that have blue is purely based on blue being the theme colour for their manufacturer, much like how Rockomax parts tend to have prominent orange sections.

dfqmXwt.jpg

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The problem with the Poodle is the length of the model. NovaSilisko has mentioned elsewhere it was made to fit under landing legs, and his technical knowledge of engines wasn't that great at the time. In order to fit an authentic looking vacuum engine in such a small length it would need to be either 1.25m (which Ven does I believe), a cluster, or a truncated aerospike. The problem with an aerospike is the assumption players might make about its capabilities in atmosphere, based on the (incorrect) way the existing stock aerospike worked before 1.0. A cluster would work nicely (someone on Reddit has already pointed out the KSP subreddit sidebar), but also adds roll gimbal to the engine, but that's a minor concern at best.
I'm happy as long as its not shrunk to 1.25m I'm not sure how it would occlude 2.5m parts above or below it in the aero system and it seems kinda pointless for a vacuum engine because it can't be used as a first stage and anything below it will trigger a 2.5m fairing which visually would be awful. so cluster or 1.25m engine with 2.5m butt sound the best to me
Based on discussion here and elsewhere, what about a compromise between the red and white? Blue might be oxidiser in KSP already, judging by the spherical tank on the launch pad, and the tanks in the Mk1 pod IVA (oxygen tanks for life support). The RLA monoprop engines that have blue is purely based on blue being the theme colour for their manufacturer, much like how Rockomax parts tend to have prominent orange sections.

http://i.imgur.com/dfqmXwt.jpg

Not boring and monochrome? I like it then ;)

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I gotta say, I like the red/white combo.

As for Poodle, what if elements like the plumbing, turbopump, etc. are arranged radially around the engine bell? That would allow for a shorter, broader engine, whilst allowing the larger vacuum engine bell. Alternately, a quad cluster with shared plumbing components arranged around them could provide an appearance like a stockalike analogue to the proposed quad engine on SLS heavy upper stage.

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Yes for red combo. And I like that experimental wireframe one, but not sure what it can be meant for.

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This isn't dead! I've simply not felt all that creative lately. I did do some experimentation with the art style though when I made this, but thats some other project. :P You all want to see the stock stuff! And having seen Porkjets updated aerospike I got a little bit inspired again, and decided to move a little away from making things based on real life components, and going forward I'll be aiming to make things more resemble the existing look (with exceptions like the Poodle).

But you guys don't care about all those wordy things, so here's a big picture:

http://i.imgur.com/e32pNSA.png

I think the flat white looks best, but also clashes with the scheme Porkjet has (white for LF, black stripe for LFO, yellow stripe for MP). The stock-style yellow also goes against that, so there's also a red option that I've blatantly copied from my RLA SRBs. Thoughts?

Also would love to hear what you guys think regarding engine models, mainly on the issue of tankbutts. Some of you have already mentioned your preferences (which I partly like the idea of, see the first link in the post), but Porkjets aerospike and SSME have been modelled with a section of the engine that insets deeply into the part above, allowing for part rotation without leaving a big gap. I feel that method also fits better with stock KSP than buttless exposed components do.

And how would you guys do the Poodle, keeping in the exact same dimensions as the current model. Cluster? Single 1.25m engine? Big old truncated aerospike (just a bad concept, don't look too deeply at the model)?

I like the yellow stripe, because it seems to be Jebediah Kerman's trademark color. MP being painted yellow probably came out of the fact that Jeb painted all three of his monoprop tanks yellow and C7 Aerospace Division saw that and was like "So Monopropellant is Yellow?"

I don't particularly like the red stripe. I'd go with either white or white and yellow. And thank GOODNESS for that RT-5. Roverdude's model for the RT-5 looks literally like trash, rivaled only by the Mainsail and Poodle.

- - - Updated - - -

This isn't dead! I've simply not felt all that creative lately. I did do some experimentation with the art style though when I made this, but thats some other project. :P You all want to see the stock stuff! And having seen Porkjets updated aerospike I got a little bit inspired again, and decided to move a little away from making things based on real life components, and going forward I'll be aiming to make things more resemble the existing look (with exceptions like the Poodle).

But you guys don't care about all those wordy things, so here's a big picture:

http://i.imgur.com/e32pNSA.png

I think the flat white looks best, but also clashes with the scheme Porkjet has (white for LF, black stripe for LFO, yellow stripe for MP). The stock-style yellow also goes against that, so there's also a red option that I've blatantly copied from my RLA SRBs. Thoughts?

Also would love to hear what you guys think regarding engine models, mainly on the issue of tankbutts. Some of you have already mentioned your preferences (which I partly like the idea of, see the first link in the post), but Porkjets aerospike and SSME have been modelled with a section of the engine that insets deeply into the part above, allowing for part rotation without leaving a big gap. I feel that method also fits better with stock KSP than buttless exposed components do.

And how would you guys do the Poodle, keeping in the exact same dimensions as the current model. Cluster? Single 1.25m engine? Big old truncated aerospike (just a bad concept, don't look too deeply at the model)?

As for the discussion of tankbutts on the engines, I think that having engine parts right into the above section is fine for some engines like the Aerospike and SSME, but not for the LV-T series or the Mainsail and Skipper.

As for designs, I think the LV-T series could take after the Redstone, Thor, and Jupiter engines. (Redstone is LV-T30 and Thor/Jupiter is LV-T45? Or maybe LV-T30 is Thor and LV-T45 is Jupiter?)

a-6-mb-3-s-3d.jpg

In this case, showing all of the engine plumbing would be entirely too much. However, showing the combustion chamber is a must, in my opinion.

Poodle: Either a short 1.25m Service Propulsion System or a cluster. Not a fan of the Aerospike.

Heck, ditching the dedication to any one particular size might be the best route. Perhaps try not giving the Mainsail or Skipper or Poodle a 2.5m mounting point at all, and see where that goes. It would allow use of the engine clipped into what's above it without a huge ugly disk/butt thing showing.

Early parts ought to, in my opinion, actually look fairly low-tech, but still like they were cleanly executed pieces of engineering and not scrap metal. I especially like the LV-N in the WIP versions of Ven's Stock Revamp, it looks very atompunk.

Edited by GregroxMun

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Heck, ditching the dedication to any one particular size might be the best route. Perhaps try not giving the Mainsail or Skipper or Poodle a 2.5m mounting point at all, and see where that goes. It would allow use of the engine clipped into what's above it without a huge ugly disk/butt thing showing.
The problem is with putting them into stack.

It can be traded with multiple nodes, like in Ven's revamp and like in stock heatshields, but this ruins compatibility, can be hacky and can be hard in editor from times to times.

It also can be dealt with by completely ditching engines' shrouds and adding fairing part under them. But - yeah, partcount.

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